WotLK So... I've been thinking

[Feeki]

It's all bul**** talking. You can play whatever you want, and an unholy dk is not a waste of spot in raid. I'd even say every raid should aim to have one in group, as well as one frost dk. The only problem with blood dks is that they are only "viable" with 100% arp and 6k+gs. It's all gear and spec dependant, not mentioning the skill. Of course you will not use your full potencial(because you are limited by bugs), but you can still hang around middle of the dps charts in a decent heroic raid.

[taralej]

So Feeki first you say that it's all bull**** talking and he can play whatever he wants, then you say he'll never reach his full potential because of bugs and he's gonna "hang in the middle of the charts"??? Dude, get out of here...

And why should every raid try to have an UDK? The magic dmg taken debuff doesn't stack with Earth and Moon and Curse of Elements. Are you saying that warlocks and boomkins are suddenly rare on the server? The haste from Frost doesn't stack with that of Windfury totem. Why should he play a spec that provides neither top DPS nor unique utility?

[angrylol]

And why should every raid try to have an UDK? The magic dmg taken debuff doesn't stack with Earth and Moon and Curse of Elements. Are you saying that warlocks and boomkins are suddenly rare on the server? The haste from Frost doesn't stack with that of Windfury totem.

I believe in 25man raid there will always be spots for frost and unholy DKs. 30% disease damage, warlocks can use curse for dmg, aoe all targets gets ebon plague, ghoul stun can be useful among other things. And icy talons aura is best, ench shamans with improved windfury totem are rare. DK will survive any "survivable" situation too, so that is less pressure for healers.
Its not "required" to have these specs, but gain from class toolkit are more than possible higher personal dps(which still is acceptable).

[taralej]

Alright then. In that case we need a UDK PvE guide because the DK section doesn't have any. Oh, wait - pets don't have Avoidance and die from every AoE on any boss. jk forget about udk pve. Dude, it's just not happening on Warmane. DKs have so many bugs as they are and Uh has even more to put it down. Just check the bug tracker with those that are Confirmed, I'm not talking fiction out of my *** - it's not like I haven't tried Uh myself...

Also, regarding our previous conversation, after some fixes on Scourge Strike's shadow part, I was left to believe that it shouldn't double-dip. However, I found this so now I'm not so sure.

[Beanlord]

@ taralej what feeki says is true,the OP can play whichever spec he wants.Depending on his gear,talants,particular fight and skills he can do big,sub-par,little dmg.I can speak only for frost and unholy,since I have not played blood.Unholy is quite viable,not to mention very useful in 25 man raids(you already mentioned it's uses) and it has a pretty big burst(above 20k) after which it drops to ~18k(at least that's what it was for me last night on dbs).The point of what i'm saying is that even tho there are very negative buffs,the spec is still useful AND can be played well,do well and be regarded well in raids.

[pimpyafresh1]

Hi bro, I recomended you to dont roll DK. Its most broken class atm in game. Some of major abilities doesnt work at all, this is list:
1. Scourge strike dont properly stack shadow dmg with blood preseance and ICC buff
2. Scourge strike (again) bugged on absorb targets (priest, pala, warlocks shield's)
3. rule 2,5 sec doesnt work
4. gargoyle doing half of his dmg then he should, he also have 0 hit and 0 resiliance like all pets in game (hunter,warlock)
5. If ya like PvP I must tell ya that 4 part set bonus of pvp set doesnt work also - very big issuse
6. improved unholy preseance work half ( not reducing rune cooldown at all. I have tested with and without the talent on target dummies and a stop watch extensively. Every time runes come up just over 10 seconds. There is no difference in rate with the talent)
7. corpse explosion doesn't ignore resilience/resistance
8. talent [Subversion] doesnt work at all
9. death coil selfheal is lower then on Blackrock server

so as you can see this is so much bugs for one class, DK is really dont worth to play here till all of this major bugs dont be a fixed, better reroll bugy OP retri class insted of dk

is subversion really not working? And thanks now I'll spec out of imp. uh pres that sucks :/

[taralej]

Subversion can be tested easily - grab Omen and Recount, spam Blood Strike and Scourge Strike non-stop for around 10 min, check how often they crit and how much aggro you've generated, then put Subversion and do the same.

[taralej]

Alright, I just finished testing Blood and here are the results:

- Subversion works, both the crit part and the aggro part;
- Bloodworms - only 1 bloodworm spawns and it doesn't attack;
- Dancing Rune Weapon works in the way that it *DOES* apply its own diseases, contrary to previous statements;
- Blood Gorged's damage part works correctly at all ranks, I cannot say about the ArP part or whether the damage bonus remains even below 75%.

So, all in all, what remains for Blood DPS to be retail like (apart from the abovementioned issues) is FIRST OF ALL the 2.5 sec rule (which hits Blood hard in the shins), Blood Tap's choice of runes to convert (if there's a depleted blood rune and a ready blood rune, it will convert the one that's ready...), and some weird rune conversion cases where you can end up with runes that appear ready but can't be used...

[tasto]

i think unholy is better then frost, if you know how to play it (wich i don't).
I have a 5.5 fdk with bis weapons and trinkets and i've been beaten by a 5k udk without donor gear. Now, i don't suck that hard, i do 14k on dbs25, but i think udk may have some bugs to exploit because some 6k+ udk i can beat, some i really can't.
I'd like to read a guide on how to udk pve on warmane

[taralej]

Check the list of guides. There are ones for Uh too. And no, Frost should out-DPS Unholy. Add broken pet scaling and basically half of the Uh tree and you can see why nobody plays it here in PvE.

[Evangelion]

Check the list of guides. There are ones for Uh too. And no, Frost should out-DPS Unholy. Add broken pet scaling and basically half of the Uh tree and you can see why nobody plays it here in PvE.

On retail is was Blood > Unholy > Frost. Also Unholy just dominates on AoE fights such as LK even now with negative bugs (pet scaling, Scourge Strike damage, Runes - altho this got fixed I think).

[taralej]

Well, here it's exactly the opposite with the many bugs Blood and Unholy have.

[Evangelion]

Yeah that's true, but still Unholy can easily outdps on aoe fights even here. I've never seen a geared Frost beating geared Unholy on LK. And I did outdps a lot of frost dks with my 5.6k Unholy.

[taralej]

Wandering Plague is a broken talent, just admit it :D Diseases critting and dealing AoE is SLIGHTLY overpowered.

[Evangelion]

Well considering a lot lower damage on Scourge Strike and pets being lame (dying 10 times faster than hunter ones etc) it seems kind of fair :D