hi there.
im almost new on this combo nad i got some trouble with some combos !
War/Hpala: warr bit me very hard and just charge charge and i cant dps him or his HPala. what is exact tactic of this combo?
lock/Rshaman
tx
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Frostmage/Disc
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Watch some youtube videos and you'll get the idea what you have to do.
Here is one example : https://youtu.be/qrbw1PnGqJ8?t=4m1sEdited: May 31, 2015
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tx looking forward ! :)
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this will actually depend very hard on what expansion your playing in.
in wrath (3.3.5) a disc-frost HARD and i mean HARD counters any 2v2 team with an hpally. in this instance youd have to spread your winters chills (the trash debuff applied when you do frost dmg from skills that either root or slow the target, easiest way to spam it is rank 1 frost bolt) to both the pala and his dps making it alot harder for him to dispell your polys and roots, then you can either DPS the dps while you cc pala. Or do the "100% your going to win" strat of just ccing DPS and mana burn spaming the pala (you litterally cannot lose this way lol).
in cata its not nearly as viable, ive seen ppl make it work but i sadly dont have any cata mage experience.
in mop i did actually see a few of em on live, but they wernt the best option for either as it was easy for most comps to negate the burst and force some cds. (admittedly tho i did focus mostly on 3v3 and only did 2v2 for luls during that season)
i should note if it is for wrath (3.3.5) you can send me a forum msg and i can help you out as its my main comp in this patch xd
Edit: I forgot i wrote this guide xD
http://forum.warmane.com/showthread....Mage-PvP-Guide
its a basic guide on some of the early aspects of advanced frost mage in duels and 2v2 (was going to do more but it didnt get really any views so i just let it be as it was) and the 2v2 it focus's on the most is frost-disc, though it doesnt give you a play by play just basic things to keep in mind and to aim for generally.Edited: June 2, 2015
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Is that video for real? First match is a ****ing FURY warrior? Why would you ever link to this garbage.
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The whole point is so the op can understand the basic strategy in 2s, which is showed simply in the video.
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while you have a point, as did the other guy because i just watched the video and the mage is complete crap at that comp.
your supposed to keep both the pala (if hes in ur los) and the war snared entire match (this is really important for the war) obv you have to apply the winters chill using r1 bolt to help your self get your CC's up (which wasnt really happening as the pala never got rooted or DF'd so the priest can burn, and it felt like the mage didnt do much at all tbh). that video show'd zero synergy between the priest or mage and honestly if a person was to try to learn based on that video they'd end up playing very poorly and would have to relearn everything else at a later point as it has no redeeming qualities for "learning".Edited: June 2, 2015
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DISC/unholy or hpala/unholy are too hard. they always try to Down my priest and finally can.
i just try to cc healer but make no deference finally dk kill my partner !
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that comp counters u really hard. hpala can spam cleanse from behind by proper losing, so war can pressure you like a tank (Real one) and and you wont land a CC unless you juke the pummel and pala comes in open
you need a very very good setup like hpala getting feard or mind controlled by PR, or you POM sheep pala and you have your frostfire proc ready then pet nova + deep + frozen orb + after getting 2 fof , alter time pop offensive trink and hit with all proc as fast as you can.
you still have the matter of getting ride of war's trink and watching out for reflect since good war knows when its coming, and also keeping pala under CC with the help of priest.
As I said your comp needs very very good setup against H-pala,war
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i almost found a good setup against hpl/war. i just stack out 5 winter's chill then ploy warr. when his healer shows up to cleans it i try to CS him and slow him
then try to Deep on him. so my priest has plenty of times to burn pally or heal him self. im doing this for 3-4 times and pally got oom. then kill pally !
but against resto shaman/ warlock im almost defense less! im trying to cc healer cause he never get oom when he has water shield ! but it almost dose not work!
any bright idea?!
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actually the amount of effort needed to kill war-pala is minimal at best. I main Disc-frost in 3.3.5 arena, and the funny thing about pala dispell is. They cannot keep up with winters chill ill explain why ;p
First you and the priest dispell the Sacred shield off war, this way your r1 bolts always get the chills up and you stack em to 5. if you are having problems with the pala all you have to do is poly pala and stack em on war, though really its going to oom the pala really quick if he tries to dispell all of the winterss chill (thing to keep in mind is that every r1 bolt applys 1 stack of winters chill AND applys/refreshing the frost bolt debuff all the while pala dispell can only remove 1 debuff per GCD. so your adding 2 debuffs per GCD and he can only remove 1 this gives you the advantage).
all the while your priest can be burn spaming the pala which will either OOM him, or force him to run thus giving you ample time to apply the r1's to war.
once war is CCd you just do the same thing to pala, if your goal is to oom him you just use all of ur stuff on em like you can nova+CS him and he cant do anything then u can start stacking chills and steal his freedom if he uses it.
all in all its really really hard for a war-pala to kill any half compentant disc-frost. its litterally the easist comp to kill as a disc-frost if a player is having problems with that he just needs to practice because he prolly learned alot of the wrong habbits playing in a double dps comp (it happens often tbh). but disc-frost can and will help a mage in ALL forms of PvP, were as double dps comps just faceroll and teach the wrong stuff. so playing it is good for the mage (and the priest to a degree).
when fighting any warlock team as disc-frost (in 3.3.5 atleast, which is the only expansion were disc-frost a god tier comp) you just CC warlock. apply some R1's to him and you can poly, nova and w/e else you want freely and theres not a damn thing he can do. You can Oom a Rsham if hes bad but realstically your goin to kill him (this is also true of vs rdruid teams). The biggest flaw in most disc-frost's game play is they assume you either attack or oom a team, but most of the time your arena fights are a combo of both. example
Rsham/rdruid teams require alot of setup and you will have to force most of there Def cds before you can burst so you'll have to not waste viens, pet or priest's haste skills (which should always be applied to the priest). the key though is to CC his partner and just apply alot of pressure, once you have the kill chance you simply burst (with your dpriest partner) and chain cc the player. vs rshams you NEED to interrupt the heal. were as vs rdruids you can get away with cover silencing as any good rdudu isnt goin to hardcast anything like that.
hPala based teams on the other hand can be oomed and its usually the best option
then dpriest based teams are 9/10 kill the dps, because thats all you can really do. sometimes you can CC chain the DPS and kill the priest but that requires the priest to be a alot less experienced then you and your partner so its not the best strat.
all of that being said, you can oom or DPS most of these teams, you just dont focus on that all of the time. for instance vs a dpriest team once your CC is DR'd on priest your priest may just burn spam him (or his partner depending on comp). its also a good pressure combo to use on rdudu's/shamans as it can force trinket very easily if you set it up right.
Disc-frost is all about using the tools you and your partner have in perfect sync. most comps get away with the healer just healing and the dps just dpsing, but disc-frost requires both ppl to CC and DPS to land kills if you and your partner arnt doing that and the disc is just sitting there healing during the "kill" moment your screwed (this is why the priest always uses his haste buff on himself as you should already have your's ready for this moment so now u both can go full burst)Edited: June 8, 2015
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quys any bright idea against Dwarlock/restoshaman ?
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Which expansion?
Wotlk - If they are good, just leave, you can't win.
Anything else-idk idc, prolly impossible to win cuz shamans are OP in every expansion after BC
Somebody up there mentioned having trouble against dk/healer? Then tell your priest to kill himself. Yes, sure, they are a SUPER hard counter to you, probably the hardest, but if a priest can't survive a DK he's hardly any good.
PS: Krohlee, hi, i saw you mentioned that DPM is your main comp? May i ask at what rating? Because killing the shaman vs a lock/rsham MIGHT work on 1.5k, but you're gonna get obliterated on 2k+ . Have fun killing the shaman with a pet CSing you and dispeling his debuffs all the time. Ooming the shaman? lol. What you do is get GOOD cross-CC (requires skype unless you've somewhat decent synergy) and kill the pets. No other way. Then i normally go for the warlock
Then there's the HPW tactic - "spam r1 frostbolts on the war so the pal can't keep up with dispelling". Yes, that's generally a great idea. Exceeeeeept that there's this ******ed talent called Sacred Cleansing which basically ****s your **** up. Once again, to beat a HPW you need ridiculous synergy. Every poly on the war has to be accompanied by a fear on the pala, otherwise it's basically useless. Saying that a DPM should never have problems against HPW is absolutely stupid. Yes, at the beggining of the expansion they WERE and still ARE in some cases, but it's been so many years since then. People know how to counter DPM, there are even guides about this. Not to mention Shadowmourne. You literally Charge Reck Bladestorm the priest and he's done. No skill involved whatsoever
PS: That "haste buff" (also known as Power Infusion btw) is best using at the start of the arena for quick dispels. Don't "save" it for "kill moments", if you use it at the start it's most likely going to be up by then anyway.
I was planning to literally make my post a single sentence and here i am, writing novels -.- gawd.Edited: June 22, 2015
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warlock-resto isnt exactly an easy comp to KILL, but its REALLY easy to survive. if you cant kill them you can 100% make it a draw.
in a post or 2 above yours i mentioned the base resto druid/rsham strats (as well as the way to kill warlock based teams). which to summerize is basically;
KILL the rdudu/rsham do not use burns as your end game strat but feel free to use them as a way to force things like trinket (or if there just stupid enough to stand out in the open alot). and do not waste your burst CDS because you will need; pet, icy, DF and CS to kill any half decent rdudu or rsham (ur priest partner also wants to save his as well because he will NEED to DPS with you and CC with you to land said kill). you have to force all of there def cds and most of the time you will probably have to chain CC there dps partner this includes a warlock (which one of the easiest to CC dps's in game, 2nd only to the warrior).
honestly destro-rsham is only strong if u dont know how to negate its dmg, which the biggest tip for any disc-frost out there (or any mage in general) is just r1 and poly/nova ect him and just run behind a pillar.
as i said at the start you should never DIE to destro-rsham (unless your playing on a buggy server or are severly undergeared to the point you take 15k crits or something) you can easily negate his burst and have him sitting in a poly at a moments notice or interupting his destro tree effectively stopin all burst.
Disc-frost has options, use those, master those and there will be very few 2s comps you cant atleast fight on par with.
Edit: DIsc-frost is very hard for any starting mage (and really even some experienced 2v2 mages are going to find it hard as its the only "hard" 2s comp for a mage in 3.3.5), infact its probably one of the hardest to play magic DPS based classes in 3.3.5 (that isnt just crap vs most comps) so you'll see alot of inexperienced players say "man u cant kill X comp cuz it just counters you" (only things that counter disc-frost are things like rsham-feral, disc-feral, disc-dk disc-war sometimes, and even rsham-affs because the have such good spread pressure) but remember disc-frost is purely skill based (despite what war-palas tell you) in most of its fights, understanding when to interrupt or burst, go defensive ect is alot more important for a disc-frost then it is for most comps, as not having that information makes it IMPOSSIBLE for a disc-frost to win. but there is no other way to learn these things for disc-frost then playing disc-frost. which is why alot of the lesser mages play comps like shadow-frost as its just alot more faceroll.
and sorry if i sounded condescending i apperently have the habbit of doing that in these types of posts but im really just tryin to be and truthful and objective as i can be.Edited: June 23, 2015
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the funny thing is warlock-rsham is only a counter if its aff-rsham. this is because aff's UA and corruption apply to much long term pressure. BUT destro is far easier to kill because all of its burst can be stopd with a single interrupt or CC.
First and formost if you are playing disc-frost vs rsham-destro and not keeping warlock fully CC'd your doing it wrong. the pet is annoying sure, but faking him is fairly easy when your in control the entire match, if you let the warlock gain momentum you will get rekt but its not because of the comp its the player.
killing pet is a great strat and is required for killing higher end warlocks but lets be honest there arnt any warlocks that high end on molten anymore even the remaining ones on the server previously known as AT have zero concept of pet control and just kinda yolo that all day (cept at like maybe 2900 rating).
i should note, the pet should never be able to dispell the warlock, if pet does that you arnt doing your job as the chill applier. you need 4-5 stacks min on warlock at all time to make the chances of dispell atleast 20%. that way its in for favor, if rng hates you and he removes all of your polys every time you cannot play it on the comp its just good ol rng.
and as for war-pala, there is nothing a war-pala can do to kill a disc-frost provided the disc-frost isnt a **** disc-frost. no amount of skill is goin to save a war pala because the fight is to much in favor of the disc-frost. outside of random rng dispells and such the disc-frost will keep war and pala CC'd for a near 50% of the fight, war will be CC"d for atleast 80% and pala will be oomed long b4 you or your priest do.
to prove this, when i first started playing disc-frost on the server previously known as AT prolly 2-3 years ago (when you started at 1k rating and such) i was able to kill glad war-palas in full rele. why? because i was good? no i was **** (to the point were i was stuck at 1600 mmr for a fkin week), but because i knew the basic's of CCing the team and my priest was damn good we easily oomd the pala and killed him leaving the war with nothing to do, its true a war-pala could get lucky and could win. but even with rng it takes ALOT for a disc-frost to die to a war-pala, the WP team would have to severly outplay the disc-frost team. were talking 3000 rated war-pala vs 1600 disc-frost on AT 2-3 years ago type ****, which isnt a counter comp thats just inexperience.
and power infusion can be used for things early on, the disc wants to make sure he has it at the end vs some comps, because without the priests burst the team wont win, like vs a rsham/rdudu team or some disc-dps teams.
oh and i never said to oom shaman infact i probably said to not do it, the only time burns should be used vs a rdudu/rsham is to apply added pressure to force a trinket or if said healer is just bad and standing out in the open.
Sacred Cleansing isnt as op as it sounds, most palas on AT used to run it and it rarely helpd sure it would rngly pop up and do somthing but again most of the time it didnt do ****. (which was why some higher end palas didnt even pick it cuz they never seemd to benifit from it) tho if this one is bugged on a server or rng just hates you it WILL kill you so in that respect your atleast half right.
and i do recommend skype for any disc-frost but its one of the comps were you dont really need it vs some classes as its just so basic and simple (like vs a war-pala).
oh and on molten the highest i got was prolly 2200-2300 when i carried the furi/rele disc using his main mages account. i didnt have a mage on molten tho so i never had the chance to climb up in 2s on it.
(lastly, Dmg from a class means nothing to a disc-frost if said disc-frost controls the fight. a good disc can and will survive a war's bladestorm even on molten. BUT the war should never even get the chance to do that to your partner as the mage should instantly charge after the war and get him snared and or poly/rooted asap to pre-emtively peel his partner. tho you generally have to CC the pala first if theyre just a dispell torrent but again not that hard.)
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