I think the question is not whether Protadin or Warrior is better, but how the warrior is compared to the current "main" off-tank, the Death Knight.
In my opinion a good warrior can do the Offtanking job of a DK much better than any DK and i've seen alot skilled DKs in my guild. Simply because of the better Warrior-CLasses Utilitys, e.g vs Shambs they have a much better Dev-CD Synergy (Crowd Control, Last stand + 4setboni Bloodrage vs hardenraged SHamb etc.).
The question is more whether u go Pala+DK or Pala+Warrior instead of this arguing about which Class is better
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Banned
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Member
Warrior block is bugged, thus threat. Paladin tank > warrior tank in late game raids. Low gs, a warrior would do better because of more defensive cds. People who are saying warrior is better, warrior has no magic damage reduction either aside from shield wall. AoE threat is decent, though not anywhere near paladin. Only reason I'd take a warr tank is for slunder armor/devastate. Until they've fixed the block bug, they aren't worth playing over another tank. If you think it takes skill to play a bugged class, I'd say it also takes some level of idiocracy. Go ahead and play arcane mage if you like bugs. iirc it was because people were exploiting full pve arp capped prot warriors in arena two shotting kids.
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Member
Fixed.
Not only on low gs, but endgame as well - lk is casting Soul-Reaper every 30s. War is able to have some defensive ready for each cast... and at the same time can have external defensive ready every 30s as well (Safeguard talent)... No other tank can do this.
Yes, aside from spellreflect and improved defensive stance (6% additional reduced spell damage taken all the time). Pala has Divine protection +- = shield wall, glyphed HoS (20% reduction for 10s on 2 min cd) and Divine Guardian talent (20% redution for 6s on 2 min cd) -> 2.7% average => war takes lower spell damage overall.
Additionally I am not saying that war is better, I am saying that war is better in some aspects. Every tank has stronger and weaker sides.
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Banned
You're clueless.
@ytufydt - seems you don't know much about Warriors in general and their status on Warmane. No offense, really. What you're talking about is MONTHS old. Warriors have no spell reduction? So I guess Def Stance's 10% and Imp Def Stance's 6% to spells are nothing, okay...
Warriors are harder, and thus more fun, to play. They take less damage than a Paladin when played right. They have their own unique traits, stretching way beyond just Devastate. These are the points which jendah and I have been repeating for 2 pages now. Just log your Warrior, look at his/ her talents, actually start playing the class, and see for yourself.Edited: June 16, 2015
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Member
If you couple in sacred shield, and resist auras onto what you just mentioned, I think it becomes obvious paladin's have the better magic tanking. Anyways, good to know the block has been fixed, I didn't see it on the bug tracker ^^
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Member
The difference is, that resist auras are also applied by other paladins. So the warrior tank most likely got them too.
Warrior tanks offer the best raid buff of all tanks - Sunder Armor.
I tanked LK HC with all tanks in BiS-Gear and my Warrior did as good as my Paladin. In fact my Warrior took less damage, but doesn't have an Ardent Defender. Only outstanding tank is the Blood DK, as you literally don't take any damage.
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Field Medic Moderator
Guarded By the Light = 6% less spell damage taken.
Shield of the Templar = 3% less of all damage taken.
Depends on the the DK, honestly. An Unholy DK will beat anyone when it comes to AoE threat. Frost DKs with Howling Blast fare decently and have a lot of mitigation in comparison to the other two DK specs. If the DK is Blood or Frost without Howling Blast, it may be better to have the Warrior OT if AoE threat is an issue. If it's the LK fight, I'd prefer the Warriot to OT so they can Shockwave the Shamblings. Also, block is amazing for multi-target tanking.
Of course, and this is the reason why paladins seem to be the easier of classes, especially when it comes to DPS and tanking. When played as if they are a pure tank or a pure dps, as opposed to a warrior, a paladin is definitely easier. But that's because when playing the paladin in that way, which most people do, they are technically only playing half of their class/spec. It's easier to tank or dps with a paladin because a person who properly plays the paladin also has to commit some of their attention to their support capabilities. Which a Warrior, most of the time (not saying they don't have any ability to), has no business doing.
It definitely is a great raid buff (not sure I'd call it the best), and a lot of raids miss out on it because most of the time DPS Warriors, Rogues, etc. don't want to commit to applying it. So, usually the only boss you'll have the buff is on Professor because of the Abom.
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Banned
Imp RF also provides additional 6% dmg reduction, which brings Protadins to 9%. Warriors have 10% from Def Stance, DKs have 8% from Frost Pres + 2% from Imp Frost Pres and 5% from Blade Barrier. The quirk with DKs is that their 6% spell reduction is only found in the middle of Unh. This more or less justifies AMS as the unique and strong ability it is.
As food for thought, if it wasn't for the ICC avoidance debuff and HP buff, Unholy would still be a very viable tanking spec and Blood wouldn't have become the ruling spec for DK tanking. After all, it is the spec which takes the least damage of the three with Magic Suppression and Bone Shield. Alas...
Regarding Sunder Armor, Fury Warriors can apply it and refresh it easily during BT>WW>Bloodsurge timeouts. And they SHOULD. If they don't, they're just bad. One more HS for the same rage cost cannot possibly compare with the gain from Sunder Armor. However, just like with Retadins, most players prefer to turn a blind eye for such things.
Just yesterday I tanked Old Kingdom with a Frost DK of mine. The funny thing was we had 2 Rets - one of them was significantly better geared than the other and was a random guildie of mine. The other pally was beating him in damage, but more importantly - he was also helping me. So while pally#1 was always busy spamming his no-brain rotation with the wrong seal, neglecting Consecration and Holy Wrath, pally#2 was actively using both, while also stunning and taunting stray mobs - overall, just playing his Paladin to the fullest. Was a real pleasure playing with this guy and I saluted him. The other pally (my guildie) felt a little shunned at the end.Edited: June 20, 2015
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Banned
Additional since the fix of SS going live yesterday, my experience with aggro in icc is very well. My damage taken was also very average. My BiS prot Paladin however had more or less a noticeable difference in his aggro, probably caused by double dipping fix of Vengeance. I keep favouring the warrior more and more, maybe one day will make it into encore main runs =D.
Edit:
I also wanted to show you guys why the Warrior is in my opinion much cooler :D
Pala:
Spoiler:Show
While the Warrior:
Spoiler:Show Edited: June 20, 2015
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Banned
Of course the Pala is going to have problems and the Warr - not, after these fixes. The Warrior is supposed to have the highest single-target TPS, while the Pala is on the low end. Warriors will rise now :)
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Member
Warrior tanks are absolutely viable and they are awesome. Tanked LoD with my warr tank earlier this week.
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Field Medic Moderator
If the magic damage is constant, Acclimation will be superior. Keleseth is a good example of that.
Yep. You know how people are.
<3 those.
And he should feel that way a bit.
Yep. Warrior "tank" as opposed to Paladin "support tank". Here's to hoping that people will catch on and adapt sooner rather than later.
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Banned
That's true and I was also a big fan of Acclimation once. However, constant magic damage is rare in raid and the talent is also in quite a bad position.
Talk about Keleseth, UDK is also a suitable candidate because 20% reduction from Shadow Lance from Bone Shield, in addition to the 6% from Magic Suppression, then also Imp AMS, and AMZ.Edited: June 20, 2015
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I mean, this doesn't mean Warrior is the better tank in Wrath. Far from it. They are, however, viable.
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Field Medic Moderator
If you don't use Pestilence or talented into Wandering Plague, sure. You want to avoid spreading your aids to the orbs.
To say that one is better than the other is absurd. All tanks have their strengths and weaknesses, and whether or not they are "best" varies for many different encounters and raid compositions. The only thing that a Paladin can be considered "better" at than any other class, for certain, that isn't a healer is support, which is often rendered irrelevant when there are another 1-2 Paladins in the raid. That aside, they are on par with any other tank.
