[Wrath] DPS is NOT Blizzlike!

[Lynea]

I said most successful, not best, which is 100% true. But I don't mind you, you are known forum troller.

It doesn't matter. All are irrelevant in the big picture. If you are claiming that they are the "top", then why are you comparing them to the "average" of retail? Unless you're saying the "top" here is equivalent to "average" on retail? Unfortunately, I have found that to be rather accurate, because people seldomly seek methods to increase their dps, and they don't seem to invest their gold into such; like providing their own flasks, getting food for themselves (which is better for them than the fish feast provided for them by the guild vault), or carrying around enough potions to pre-pot on every boss, and every pull after every wipe, to min/max dps. But then those people who would do that probably don't even bother to track their threat and use the tricks available to them to keep themselves from over-aggroing.

Conclusion: The "top guilds" on Warmane usually are just gatherings of over-geared average players. There are some individual exceptions to this, of course, but that is fairly rare. Maybe 3 or 4 out of 25 people.

[Sandbro1]

Conclusion: The "top guilds" on Warmane usually are just gatherings of over-geared average players. There are some individual exceptions to this, of course, but that is fairly rare. Maybe 3 or 4 out of 25 people.

It's like this in almost every server, not just Warmane. But it's pretty darn true.

[aryanprince]

How cute, I'm known now.
FYI, I didn't say that you said they're #1, I only stated the similarities between commercials and guilds.
Also, you minded enough to take the time to reply.
But I have an actual question, did that mage at 12k die or go afk?

That mage is 5.3 gs or something like that.

[aryanprince]

It doesn't matter. All are irrelevant in the big picture. If you are claiming that they are the "top", then why are you comparing them to the "average" of retail? Unless you're saying the "top" here is equivalent to "average" on retail? Unfortunately, I have found that to be rather accurate, because people seldomly seek methods to increase their dps, and they don't seem to invest their gold into such; like providing their own flasks, getting food for themselves (which is better for them than the fish feast provided for them by the guild vault), or carrying around enough potions to pre-pot on every boss, and every pull after every wipe, to min/max dps. But then those people who would do that probably don't even bother to track their threat and use the tricks available to them to keep themselves from over-aggroing.

Conclusion: The "top guilds" on Warmane usually are just gatherings of over-geared average players. There are some individual exceptions to this, of course, but that is fairly rare. Maybe 3 or 4 out of 25 people.

I don't want to turn this into a guild drama. I never said ether top or best guild. I said most successful if you look at numbers of Lich King and Halion kills. I also plan to leave the guild and this should be my last raid, due to lack of social stuff.

[aryanprince]

Calculating is a good point. Damage and DPS should do... ^^

So we have about 121 seconds of fight. Which is pretty good - definetly above average.

Due to the encounter on Warmane warriors shine here even more, since they do have much more cleave damage. So the gap between the warrior and the mage (0.8%) is a scripting "issue". Same goes for the priests as Mind Sear is a huge DPS boost and many priests use it to push DPS - correct me if they weren't using it.
This leaves the hunter. Could be just to double dips, but I would assume he got Tricks and/or Hysteria. Tricks makes a lot of sense on a hunter anyways, since the warrior over-aggros quite faster.

Overall it shows a nice - maybe not full retail like, but still more than acceptable - balance. 6 different specs in a 0.4% damage range. 19k in total; I call it RNG.

It is double dipps. I took SS of this hunter's hostile attacks on same fight and he done 46 000 Chimera Shot crit, and 130 000 Chimera Shot crit with BQL bite, which is double dipps. Seems like Warmane has only 1 great bug left to repair and that is Hunter. Those crying Paladins should instead vote for that on Bugtracker because bugs are reported.

[Lynea]

I don't want to turn this into a guild drama. I never said ether top or best guild. I said most successful if you look at numbers of Lich King and Halion kills. I also plan to leave the guild and this should be my last raid, due to lack of social stuff.

Different words, same implication. As I said, it doesn't matter. You are so focused on your own ego that you can't even admit to your faults. That's fine though. Anyone who remembers your name in the years to come, will only remember that you are just as arrogant as your name implies. Only the weak try to hide behind words. Cowardice.

It is double dipps. I took SS of this hunter's hostile attacks on same fight and he done 46 000 Chimera Shot crit, and 130 000 Chimera Shot crit with BQL bite, which is double dipps. Seems like Warmane has only 1 great bug left to repair and that is Hunter. Those crying Paladins should instead vote for that on Bugtracker because bugs are reported.

Not for long. They come for you and your piss poor excuses.

* Fixed an issue where abilities such as Seal of Corruption and Vengeance would be affected twice by damage modifiers such as Avenging Wrath report #211
https://www.warmane.com/changelog?expansion=2

And I revel in it.

Mained a Ret for my entire WoW career. Do you know who were the #1 advocates against these double-dipping bugs? Myself and my fellow paladins. Now go eat your own words.

[SyncNR3]

I'm kind of curious how they only get 1 FM phase. They get 2 shamblings and 2 valk waves yet they only get the first FM phase and then kill it. I have never seen such a thing been done here before.

Aeturnum has done it, was mostly by accident because we were sated during phase 2, lusted after the first FM and killed it.
So yes, it is possible.

[Obnoxious]

Ok.... so this thread is on the verge of being done with.

It makes a fair claim, but is utterly lacking in useful evidence. All the discrepancies that have been pointed out could come from a variety of reasons, the DPS here being wrong just one of them. There are a few bugs the Developers are aware of that can influence on that, but that was already known and didn't get brought up to light on this thread.

In the end of the day, simply saying "the outcome of hours of play is wrong in Warmane" means nothing. We can't "sniff" data to check what might be off, and the amount of variables involved in that outcome is huge. Unless you can point out exactly what's causing this assumed wrong DPS result (which class/spec/skill/combination of skills/etc.) this isn't helpful at all. Developers can't just slap in a "function fixDPS" that deducts a couple thousands of the damage from everyone to make it, apparently, "Blizz-like."

Still, discussing that is fine and harmless - except for the tone that is gradually being used. Personal attacks and which guild did what is even more pointless to this thread than the current presented information is to getting this fixed. Quit that behavior now.

[aryanprince]

Ok.... so this thread is on the verge of being done with.

It makes a fair claim, but is utterly lacking in useful evidence. All the discrepancies that have been pointed out could come from a variety of reasons, the DPS here being wrong just one of them. There are a few bugs the Developers are aware of that can influence on that, but that was already known and didn't get brought up to light on this thread.

In the end of the day, simply saying "the outcome of hours of play is wrong in Warmane" means nothing. We can't "sniff" data to check what might be off, and the amount of variables involved in that outcome is huge. Unless you can point out exactly what's causing this assumed wrong DPS result (which class/spec/skill/combination of skills/etc.) this isn't helpful at all. Developers can't just slap in a "function fixDPS" that deducts a couple thousands of the damage from everyone to make it, apparently, "Blizz-like."

Still, discussing that is fine and harmless - except for the tone that is gradually being used. Personal attacks and which guild did what is even more pointless to this thread than the current presented information is to getting this fixed. Quit that behavior now.

I agree. The only leftover bug is 3 Hunter Spells that double dipp, and Unholy DK Scourge Strike, Ghoul and Gargoyle bugs, rest is blizzlike in my opinion or close to blizzlike.

[DarkenedHue]

Unless you can point out exactly what's causing this assumed wrong DPS result (which class/spec/skill/combination of skills/etc.) this isn't helpful at all.

I agree. The only leftover bug is 3 Hunter Spells that double dipp, and Unholy DK Scourge Strike, Ghoul and Gargoyle bugs, rest is blizzlike in my opinion or close to blizzlike.

1) Both 3% base damage and 3% minor haste auras stacking twice.
2) Demonic Pact from Demo Warlocks stacking with Totem of Wrath and Flametongue totem (the strongest SP buff should over-write the others, they should NOT stack).
3) Hunter Chimera Shot and Wild Quiver double-dipping on base-damage modifiers, and Chimera Shot - Serpent double-dipping on BOTH base damage modifiers and damage taken increase debuffs on the enemy (Curse of Elements, Corporeality).
4) FFB mages specced into Shatter have a tremendous advantage on LK because the boss counts as frozen during transition phases, meaning that you are going to be permanently critting on the boss during transition phase as an FFB mage with at least 2 points in Shatter.
5) Furious Howl and Call of the Wild being party-wide buffs, something exacerbated by how the AI of hunter pets is clever enough to smart-cast these buffs (pets don't furious howl when the buff is already up - the two wolves actually cycle their buffs, therefore putting 3 melee DPS in a group with 2 hunters means a permanent +320 AP from furious howl, on top of the massive burst DPS gain from Call of the Wild).

These are the biggest sources of DPS discrepancies between Warmane and Retail that occur to me right now.

[aryanprince]

1) Both 3% base damage and 3% minor haste auras stacking twice.
2) Demonic Pact from Demo Warlocks stacking with Totem of Wrath and Flametongue totem (the strongest SP buff should over-write the others, they should NOT stack).
3) Hunter Chimera Shot and Wild Quiver double-dipping on base-damage modifiers, and Chimera Shot - Serpent double-dipping on BOTH base damage modifiers and damage taken increase debuffs on the enemy (Curse of Elements, Corporeality).
4) FFB mages specced into Shatter have a tremendous advantage on LK because the boss counts as frozen during transition phases, meaning that you are going to be permanently critting on the boss during transition phase as an FFB mage with at least 2 points in Shatter.
5) Furious Howl and Call of the Wild being party-wide buffs, something exacerbated by how the AI of hunter pets is clever enough to smart-cast these buffs (pets don't furious howl when the buff is already up, therefore putting 3 melee DPS in a group with 2 hunters means a permanent +320 AP from furious howl, on top of the massive burst DPS gain from Call of the Wild).

These are the biggest sources of DPS discrepancies between Warmane and Retail that occur to me right now.

Add Death Knight leftover bugs for Unholy spec. Scourge Strike - Shadow part and Ghoul and Gargoyle stats and I agree with you.

[Sixtyninee]

4) FFB mages specced into Shatter have a tremendous advantage on LK because the boss counts as frozen during transition phases, meaning that you are going to be permanently critting on the boss during transition phase as an FFB mage with at least 2 points in Shatter.

I've written this line like 5 times, backspaced every time, I'm just amazed that people still believe that.
Whoever started this rumor is up there with whoever started the one about stunning trash in rep farms, and people who believe it are down there with the people who run rep farms.

[DarkenedHue]

I've written this line like 5 times, backspaced every time, I'm just amazed that people still believe that.
Whoever started this rumor is up there with whoever started the one about stunning trash in rep farms, and people who believe it are down there with the people who run rep farms.

There is nothing to "believe". This has been confirmed numerous times by myself and a number of other reliable people. Granted, I haven't bothered myself with recording video evidence of this in effect to actually show it yet, but I dare you to go into ICC with a BiS mage that has 3 points in Shatter and land a single non-crit spell on LK during the transition phases. It simply won't happen.

[Sixtyninee]

There is nothing to "believe". This has been confirmed numerous times by myself and a number of other reliable people. Granted, I haven't bothered myself with recording video evidence of this in effect to actually show it yet, but I dare you to go into ICC with a BiS mage that has 3 points in Shatter and land a single non-crit spell on LK during the transition phases. It simply won't happen.

From the dps rankings that I have seen in this thread, I'm more worried about anyones description of "BiS".
Itemization should be common sense, unfortunately it's the definition of exceptional.

[toniplavna]

Rogues...