It has come to my attention that the DPS on the Wrath server [Ragnaros] is nearly double of what it was on Blizzard servers. 22k? 25k? 30k dps? By mages, hunters and warlocks? No. The ABSOLUTE TOP would be a Fury Warrior with shadowmourne - dealing less than 23k dps. The standard is to test a guild's DPS on Deathbringer Saurfang in 25 HC.
I have much, much proof of this via old forums:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...of-DPS-classes
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/534914-/55886296
http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/06/i...lysis-by-spec/
http://forums.elitistjerks.com/topic...in-icc-normal/
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2592646273
...there's more.
However, checking the forums here I see discussion and screenshots of ridiculously inflated damage of 24-30k by nontraditional classes. I've asked several high-end players (gear-wise at least) and what they claim is in agreement to the Warmane forums. I used to play on other EU Blizzlike Wrath servers, and the top DPS would be a 6.7k GearScore Retribution Paladin or Fury Warrior dealing around 15-16k DPS (Ret) and 15-17k (Fury) on Saurfang 25 HC (no icc buff). Are you telling me that players here are nearly twice as good as all of the top guilds on other private servers and all of the original Blizzard retail Wrath servers?
Typically private servers will have something broken in the talent tree that should lower a class' DPS, but here it's not the case. Can someone provide an explaination/prove me wrong/agree the dps here isn't Blizzlike? Those are the only three possibilities. I came here with a bunch of buddies (and family) and we're eager to start progressing from scratch, but its off-putting content will be breezed through due to unusually high DPS. The only thing I can think of is that the "broken" talents soup up class' DPS here instead of reduce.
Regards,
Some dude with Target Dummy set to hearthstone.
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[Wrath] DPS is NOT Blizzlike!
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High geared players could do vastly more DPS than 15-16k, I mean I have a screenshot from retail of my Mage who didn't even have much 25H gear doing 19kdps on Festergut 10, and that's at the end of the fight with 10-man buffs, not even 25.
DPS is certainly wrong here, and in several cases it's inflated to be too high. Unfortunately, every private realm has non-Bizzlike DPS, and encounter design, and etc etc.
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Thank you for your confirmation, Mahourai.
Admittedly my old servers would be "bad bugged," that is the DPS is lowered due to broken talents which yield 15-17k as the top (on Saurfang 25 HC). But I believe that it was a good thing as it provided more of a challenge in the raids - only 4-5 guilds could down LK25HC out of 2000 population. Its slightly reminiscent of retail Naxx, which while elitist provided quite the challenge.
Here the talents end up to be "good bugged" yielding enourmously high damage dealt which sadly makes content easier as fights end sooner, healers retain more mana, tanks get earlier breaks (phase changes) and DPS can more effectively capitalize on burst (and heroism).
PvP-wise double-dps comps should be even more potent at "training" one target which is very unfair. Healing classes have it much harder in this regard in PvP arena.
Perhaps Warmane's dynamic bug-fixing could look into this, since it definitely skews gameplay in both PvE and PvP from what it was meant to be.Edited: June 14, 2015
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tl;dr:
Retail Wotlk: nobody does more than 21-23k dps
Other private Wotlk: nobody does more than 15-18k dps
Warmane Wotlk: players can do from 24-30k dps
Conclusion:
PvE content is easier, you'll have tunnelers clearing content they otherwise may be able to, tanks get quicker breaks, healers retain more mana.
PvP is easier for double-dps comps, training strats, and more difficult for healers in arena.
Reason:
No Wotlk private server is perfect, there are usually bugged talents present. Many of these servers experience the bug detrimental to DPS, on this server the bugs are very beneficial to DPS.
There you have it, good day.Edited: June 14, 2015
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Rogues should be one of the best DPS classes in the whole expansion, but here at Warmane Rogues are the last DPS, due to rogue bugs getting the minimal attention, This has been like this from the beginning of the Molten project.
I hope they can sort this out at some point, I'd rather have working classes rather than pathfinding fixed.
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Pretty much what Pibels said - Rogues were on top in WotLK expansion, especially Assassination Rogues.
And another thing to mention. On retail, you actually had to be really careful that no one got hit by Malleable Goo on Festergut Heroic, as that might have caused your raid to reach the enrage timer and wipe. So yeah, DPS is definitely much, MUCH higher here than it was on retail.
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Combat was beating Assassination on 3.3.5. Using some Spreadsheets would show you Combat > Assa by about 300 DPS on BiS-Gear.
Combat is able to pull over 20k DPS on Warmane and you don't have to be BiS-Geared to achieve it.
HERE you'll see a video of DBS on retail late WOTLK (Aug, 2010). You can watch the full series to compare DPS. There isn't this much of a difference to Warmane. Only real noticeable difference is the increased damage of paladins.
I'd say the difference is 10% the most, considering that Warmane offers much easier ways to get to BiS-Gear it's even lower.
And tbh, I don't know what you guys were looking at, because even on Radiance, Aurora or Epic streams you won't see average DPS of 30k. These are DPS spikes that don't last till the end of the fight or are achieved by massive buff stacking (TotT, Hysteria, etc.).
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Actually Combat was beating Assassination on 3.3.5 only on certain fights. And Festergut was a DPS race on retail, not Deathbringer Saurfang. Though Assassination was one of those classes you picked not to attack Bone Spikes on Marrowgar or adds on Lady, and so on.
As Sandbro1 posted the links, the one taken from World of Logs back in WotLK expansion on retail is this:
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/4093/100216dps2.png
This is by far the most accurate analysis by spec for ICC I've seen so far.
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Bensten that video only further proves my point that there is something terribly off about certain classes damage output. Thus far I've gathered warriors, DKs rogues do pretty much the same damage as retail, with rogues dealing much less than they should (even the charts I linked show this).
And here are some images from Warmane Wotlk servers that you find just by browsing the forums:
http://i47.tinypic.com/29lfl1t.png
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/9787/rh7x.jpg
http://i60.tinypic.com/1zp5mic.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img5...0613204621.jpg
http://oi42.tinypic.com/2mqt8vr.jpg
Pallies deal slightly higher, mages and locks deal much more along with hunters. And this isn't even "that one dude" there are many images with different players on different bosses. Rogues need a fix and I'd hate to say it but the hunter/mage/warlock situation needs a "fix" too (nerf). Its probably a subtle detail that these classes have that is tweaked higher than it should be which at very high gear becomes exaggerated.
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This image is actually the worse comparison you can find for a 30% ICC buff. This chart is only accurate for the 0% buff. You are arguing using information that was only accurate the moment ICC/LK was introduced.
The images provided were most likely taken before buff stacking was fixed. Single spikes like this one can also be explained by rogues using TotT on the mage or the lock - for example.
Watch the streams of the endgame raiding guilds and you'll see that these charts aren't correct anymore. Most of your screenshots are oudated!
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When buff stacking was still a thing, rogue were doing 26k max dps, not 15k. So no these are not outdated, Hunters are REALLY broken, so are Retribution Paladins, they do way too much damage.
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4/5 images were definetly taken when buff stacking was still availabe - so they are about 2 years old. The only image that is possible to represent an actual dps meter is the one I posted.
Rogues can easily do more than 15k DPS. I was raiding with an Assa Rogue doing constant 15k DPS with 5.9k GS - he got tricks from a second rogue, but still pretty good. Combat does even better.
Retailt Hunters were doing about 18k on Saurfang, while focusing on adds and most likely ICC geared without RS gear. This is the same range you can expect on Warmane as Hunters were already nerfed. Piercing Shots deal way less damage then it did before --> this is a past Moltdown fix.
Rets are still "untouched" - so this is the reason to blame the whole development for being wrong?
Compared to late ICC recordings you have Rets doing too much damage, and assa rogues/enhancement shamans falling behind. Other classes may not be balanced as they were on retail and may be more gear dependend than they should be, but are still capable of achieving a retail like dps.
This thread is basically a nerd rage complain about dps using charts that aren't even accurate for this patch. So you use false information to compare the state of this server to retail.
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For one, most players on retail didn't enjoy the same access to BiS gear that players on Warmane do if they can afford the coins. DPS tends to go up exponentially as you climb up those last 300-400 gs, due to the multiplicative effect of absurdly large amounts of secondary stats along with your primary ones. Things like Ruby Sanctum 25-man heroic trinkets were never seen by the vast majority of raiders during retail WotLK.
Factor in also that higher raid DPS means that fights will be finishing quicker, which in turn means even higher DPS, because the burst phases of various classes will have lasted a longer portion of the fight. Also, DBS on Warmane in its present state is a joke. You can entirely ignore the adds and focus on killing the boss quicker while your melee just cleave them, whereas on retail you'd have to devote time to slowing and properly handling them. Fights like DBS and Professor Putricide on Warmane, you definitely can't compare to how they were on retail. You can, however, look at DPS from streams of fights like LoD and observe that the classes that managed to pull upwards of 25k on DBS usually finish around 13-15k on Heroic LK - a figure extremely consistent with retail numbers.
Have a look at this video from retail, exhibiting the full DPS potential of a raid full of BiS geared people:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lO8KFr6oIZ0Edited: June 16, 2015
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Not to mention that the fight above is easily considered as an AoE potential fight.
Along with that, there's literally no use comparing DPS on retail on Deathbringer Saurfang fight. DBS on retail wasn't a DPS race at all, Festergut was. And you're welcome to check any uploaded videos from either bosses on YouTube and you'll see what was the actual DPS during that time.
On retail there was one huge difference - gear scale was much more noticed than it is here.
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On retail best dps by far was boomkin. It was known as the birth of the boomkin. I don't play wotlk on this server, but if that isn't the case, it needs fix.
