my opinion

[Judgelawlx]

Tl;DR SUMMARY:

1. MALACO + BLACKROCK = SINKING SHIP

2. put some1 in lead of blackrock that is motivated and cares.

3. acknowledge emotions/opinions of people to take action rather than counter their arguments.

4. put effort in making not viable ideas from people into viable ideas.

5. hire some1 for blackrock. Now even ****** seems interesting. like WTF???

-------------

LONGER (BORING) VERSION:

I have played AT for 5 years give or take. I have seen it rise to incredible hights and down to new lows. A few months ago AT merged with Molten and created Warmane. Mixed reviews were given. Despite this, according to the numbers the blackrock realm, had a spike upwards in population. A positive image in the shadow of many negative reviews. So why all the bad news?

When I log online (and I do this frequently), I play, I talk, I observe. So do others. What most of us blackrock- ers seem to agree upon, is that the arena activity in the brackets that have driven the server for years (2v2) is declining. People also have clear feeling that the staff activity is low and that people get more and more room to freely cheat around. A less ambigious message was sent by AT by not streaming/giving a welcome ceremony to end season victories. A tradition that has been on AT for as long as I can remember.

Now many people have different ideas about the decline of the server. And I see many posts written about this. Some people think it has to do with the fact that the staff have abandoned us, other people think it's because wotlk arena is simply dead, some people think its SOLOQ dispersing people over different brackets, other people have different opinions, and some people even say its all a lie and the server is thriving. Mixed observations and mixed results, based on different people being active in different areas of the game (2v2/3v3/soloq/isle of quel danas/ BG's). Every person has an idea. Perhaps my bias is that I usually talk with the 2v2 players. So why is my argument more legitimate than say a Quel Danas player who has seen an uprise in activity?

Well it isn't. Legitimisation is based on the focus of the server, what the aims are. What do you want to achieve? For 5 years 2v2 has been the lifeblood of the server, while the staff advocated for 3v3. 3v3 was thus the clear aim of the staff, while the aim of the population was clearly 2v2. A nice balance. Recently however, staff has put less effort in blackrock. You can argue about it, but taking the observations of countless loyal players who play so frequently with a big salt spoon is just against better judgement. So obviouslyl for weeks I have seen people (the 'old' majority -> 2v2'ers) desperately writing topics (like myself) in an attempt to somehow persuade staff to do something in favor of OUR goals. People do so wholeheartedly by giving their opinions and underlaying arguments. Unfortunately and much to my annoyance I have seen staff do little more than respond with counterarguments: this is not the reason why stuff happens, that is not the reason why stuff happens, this is not a true observation. A staff that CLEARLY misses the entire point. Why?

Well besides the fact that, like I said these players are frequent players who actually experience the division of players over the various brackets rather than to base opinions on statistics or arguments made by (i imagine wildly) people 'high in the staff foodchain', it is also a clear and iambigious message that stuff has to be done about the stuff people complain about. DESPITE the arguments they give for it, despite the fact if what they say is statistically 100% accurate or not. Any selfrespecting entertainer should know how important opinions and experiences are. Hell, the entire world is currently so up and all in the 'experience economy' and all that entails is.

So what I recommend is to stop let debates bleed out by giving counterarguments to the opinions of players, and start moving from simply 'taking them serious' to 'acting on them'.
So what to do? I have a few observations and conclusions I can base upon the previous and what I've read in various other topics that I would like to share. These observations could be used to take action:


Observations/conclusions:

1. Despite real facts, most blackrock arena players 'feel' that the server is dying. It is an undeniable opinion if you read chat/talk to people/play arena for more than a random moment in a random day.

2. Despite real facts, most blackrock arena players 'feel' that staff members are most times absent and that cheaters are being unpunished.

3. Despite real facts, most blackrock arena players 'feel' that they have suddenly moved to the bottom of the food chain, a feeling constantly fed by server news that most of the time never mentions blackrock.

4. Despite real facts, most blackrock players 'feel' that despite the ones in the staff to blame, the people ACTUALLY responsible (who knows who anymore? transparancy???) are just not that much into blackrock anymore and its wellbeing.

5. The staff feels that the players strong opinions need to be dampened by 'real facts'. Players on their turn feel that staff hardly has a say in these 'real facts' since they are hardly ever online, and the players are the ones actually experiencing stuff.

6. The staff feels that much can be done by being more integrated in community. Less of a AT versus Molten, but more of a Warmane vibe.

7. Staff doesn't seem to fully comprehend that AT players feel like they have made many sacrifices/favors for staff by moving to 'molten' against their will. Any way to move towards more integration must therefore begin with a clear, serious and lasting countergesture from staff.

8. Players have tons of good ideas, but some more realisable than others. Despite of this, all of the ideas given come from a fierce motivation and loyalty to the server. Something that should be clearly reflected by staff review.

9. Rather than simply judging ideas on its viability, look for dialog wherein there is a direct line with you and blackrock people. Look for ways to improve those ideas by taking their ideas and in dialog find a way to make a not-viable idea viable. Not simply trough a once in a week twitch chat where most blackrock questions are overshadowed. People need to feel like they get attention, they get their share of the cake.

10. Make a list of all the possible explanations made for the current negative reviews. Despite your personal opinion about the arguments given, go over them one by one and see how you can improve those opinions ANYWAY. Perhaps one or two of those ideas are actually a golden shot.

11. Be more competitive in blackrock compared to OTHER similar realms out there, and offer equal (or like in the past BETTER) alternatives.

12. Do more with out-of-the-box thinking to get people to play your server. Not just server features, but also marketing. Here are two VERY valuable videos to start with:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFdCzN7RYbw (marketing, influence) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc (marketing, motivation)

I would like to get feedback, not as a way to end the debate, but rather as a way to engage in it. Preferably outside of the constraints of this simple topic I wrote. What do you people think?

[ssoro]

id like to state i personally srsly rarely happen to read stuff i truly respect especially not topic creations, so big kudoz from me on that one, its a decently complex topic which i just finished reading and so its not impossible that i might not exactly have in mind everything that was pointed out but i wanna say i literally agree with all of it

i like that you point out how theres people having the power to save this realm that are spending working time attempting to counter-argue unsatisfied customers which is counterproductive to say the least

imo regarding the AT staff members it always wouldve been to go to the basics; "the customer is always right"
it might seem as an unreasonable way of choosing on what you judge your work yet if used properly is the most objective and reliable method to make said work succeed

[Judgelawlx]

I made a small summary of the core of my message at the top. Some people pointed out to me that the core was fine and true, but that it was too tough and boring to read trough all of it. Hope the summary is a good addition for people having problems with it :P

@ssoro:

- good to hear, but perhaps I could try send message more in an appealing way with less text and more dumping down of what i want to say.

- I 100 percent agree with that statement you made in your final paragraph.

[Jamminxo]

Really nice post. It hurts seeing our little baby sinking and I think the same goes for the rest of the previous staff (with some exceptions who have lost passion), even us who left. We're still very passionate about it and deeply upset that it's not living up to it's potential. Unfortunately the restraints to improve it were existent and at every attempt there is a barrier somewhere. However there's still really great people inside Warmane's staff so not all hope is lost. Hopefully there are still improvements to be seen.

I really hope so.

[Arbiterone]

Honestly, I don't see any good reason for the amount of complains Blackrock has been receiving lately. It is the realm with most custom features and less bugs, while other WotLK realms were abandoned by our old staff for over 2 years and we don't see as many complaints as we see here. We give Blackrock as much attention as any of our realms deserve, it won't become a high priority anytime soon as blackrock is the realm in the best state and the second less populated.
This 'Blackrock is dying' is a myth and posters who are saying this only want more attention. Maybe AT gave you a lot of attention in their times, but this is now Warmane and we deal with things differently. You won't see a team of staff members dedicated only to one realm, instead we dedicate to all the realms. If you don't like what you hear, sorry but it's time for you to change.
I'll answer to the misconceptions here, but many of them are repeated and had a staff answer before.

1. Despite real facts, most blackrock arena players 'feel' that the server is dying. It is an undeniable opinion if you read chat/talk to people/play arena for more than a random moment in a random day.

As I said above, this is a myth created only as an attempt to have more attention. Maybe AT had more population in the past, but here in Warmane I only hear news of the population becoming bigger.

2. Despite real facts, most blackrock arena players 'feel' that staff members are most times absent and that cheaters are being unpunished.

They are always punished when they are caught. However, we have a team of 9 GMs for a server with 6 realms and over 16k online players at peak hours, you can't expect a team dedicated to Blackrock. You can collect evidence of the hackers and report them, and they will be dealt with appropriately.

3. Despite real facts, most blackrock arena players 'feel' that they have suddenly moved to the bottom of the food chain, a feeling constantly fed by server news that most of the time never mentions blackrock.

It is natural to feel you are abandoned, as Blackrock was AT's most beloved child and had more attention back in then. But as I said, we give all realms the same attention.

4. Despite real facts, most blackrock players 'feel' that despite the ones in the staff to blame, the people ACTUALLY responsible (who knows who anymore? transparancy???) are just not that much into blackrock anymore and its wellbeing.

As I said, there isn't staff members dedicated only to Blackrock, and we will never have such thing. There isn't one person to blame.

5. The staff feels that the players strong opinions need to be dampened by 'real facts'. Players on their turn feel that staff hardly has a say in these 'real facts' since they are hardly ever online, and the players are the ones actually experiencing stuff.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Now I ask you, is this a type of feedback we should take seriously? Is this a real feedback, with suggestions of what we can do to improve, or just something that came to your mind and you want to complain for the sake of it?

6. The staff feels that much can be done by being more integrated in community. Less of a AT versus Molten, but more of a Warmane vibe.

The community is damaging itself by splitting in two. We can't do much, but overall Blackrock would have better results should both communities finally accept the merge and become stronger. Wouldn't you like to see more players in Blackrock? Then don't attack those who could join.

7. Staff doesn't seem to fully comprehend that AT players feel like they have made many sacrifices/favors for staff by moving to 'molten' against their will. Any way to move towards more integration must therefore begin with a clear, serious and lasting countergesture from staff.

If the merge didn't happen, AT would've died. Both communities earned from the merge -- AT ensured survival and have more players to play with, Molten earned the best AT could provide. If AT players feel it is a 'sacrifice' to play here, you are free to go. It is sad to have players thinking they are making us a favour by playing here, this is a free service and our staff works hard to provide the best.

8. Players have tons of good ideas, but some more realisable than others. Despite of this, all of the ideas given come from a fierce motivation and loyalty to the server. Something that should be clearly reflected by staff review.

I would like to see these ideas. So far, in this thread, the only type of 'feedback' I've seen is more of a drama, instead of real suggestions explaining how the server can improve from it.

9. Rather than simply judging ideas on its viability, look for dialog wherein there is a direct line with you and blackrock people. Look for ways to improve those ideas by taking their ideas and in dialog find a way to make a not-viable idea viable. Not simply trough a once in a week twitch chat where most blackrock questions are overshadowed. People need to feel like they get attention, they get their share of the cake.

We don't have many ideas for Blackrock. As I said, it has the less bugs and most custom content of all realms. We don't know what to do next. You're free to make suggestions and we'll consider them.

10. Make a list of all the possible explanations made for the current negative reviews. Despite your personal opinion about the arguments given, go over them one by one and see how you can improve those opinions ANYWAY. Perhaps one or two of those ideas are actually a golden shot.

Sure, I'm writing this right now. I hope this will not be needed again after this post.

11. Be more competitive in blackrock compared to OTHER similar realms out there, and offer equal (or like in the past BETTER) alternatives.

This is a quite empty feedback. I don't know what you're suggesting. I suggest you to explain it better in another thread, if you wish, and we may take it if it's an exciting idea.

12. Do more with out-of-the-box thinking to get people to play your server. Not just server features, but also marketing. Here are two VERY valuable videos to start with.

We don't work with marketing, if players want to join Warmane they will do so because this is the best private server for them, not because of marketing.

Hopefully I have answered to all the misconceptions here.

[MattLu]

/r iamverysmart

[Judgelawlx]

First of all thanks to all replies/reads. Had many comments from people stating this is what they think too. Happy to know judgement was right.

Second of all thanks to Arbiterone for his time to write such an extensive reply.

First of all I would like to take the entire 'complaint-culture' argument out of the way. Making constant negative comments about how the server currently works and what causes it + what ideas come up to fix it can easily be misread as pure complaint-culture while it could very well be merely a symptom of loyal/caring players that want to really make a change for the better but feel unheard/not taken serious. Be it a succesful way in achieving stuff is another question, however. But apparently the only way you can expect from such a diverse group of people as blackrock community.

That brings me to my second point: I have clearly talked about 'feeling', a subjective point of view. Perhaps in a more objective weighted view there are definately valid counterarguments to this. Like you said, only 9 people to do so and they aren't being lazy. Something you might think that I am saying. The point is I am not saying this. I'm merely saying people FEEL that staff is lazy by not being active on blackrock like it was. Despite if this is actually true or not. Happily I am sure some people areopen to take role of spokesmen ingame and function as some sort of 'watchmen'. So a suggestion could be to make system where you got like 'VIPs' (green text people) that are somehow connected with staff AND are spokesmen (ambassadors) for the people. This can only be succesful ideas however, if staff does more than simply read these ideas and then can easily throw them in wastebin. People will probably want to see some ideas come to fruitition.

Third and last point: I am not looking for argument whether these feelings are objectiviable or not. They are here, active and definetely not a one-person opinion from what I've had comments on. My main point was to move AWAY from the entire cycle of "argument --> counterargument" towards "oke, we both think this server is great, but in your passion you somehow feel unhappy. Lets find a soltuion to your feelings. How can we make a system that we can both agree upon?" Simply paternalising and constantly trying to justify staff actions/countering arguments from players is not always the best solution.

Example: just look at a class with a teacher that kids think he doesnt give good inspiring lesson. Kids complain because they want to not be bored/be taken serious/use emotional arguments against teacher. Teacher gets frustrated and counters their arguments while not seeing the bigger picture: it doesn't matter who's right or wrong. The point is that the problem is there, and doesnt go away without action. So might as well listen + find a solution both can agree upon.

[Tetrasemptum]

my opinion, remove dampening in 2s.

[Breakingbads]

my opinion, remove dampening in 2s.

Fadel's server doesn't have dampening in 2's 4Head

[Gufflret]

Honestly, I don't see any good reason for the amount of complains Blackrock has been receiving lately. It is the realm with most custom features and less bugs, while other WotLK realms were abandoned by our old staff for over 2 years and we don't see as many complaints as we see here. We give Blackrock as much attention as any of our realms deserve, it won't become a high priority anytime soon as blackrock is the realm in the best state and the second less populated.
This 'Blackrock is dying' is a myth and posters who are saying this only want more attention. Maybe AT gave you a lot of attention in their times, but this is now Warmane and we deal with things differently. You won't see a team of staff members dedicated only to one realm, instead we dedicate to all the realms. If you don't like what you hear, sorry but it's time for you to change.
I'll answer to the misconceptions here, but many of them are repeated and had a staff answer before.



As I said above, this is a myth created only as an attempt to have more attention. Maybe AT had more population in the past, but here in Warmane I only hear news of the population becoming bigger.



They are always punished when they are caught. However, we have a team of 9 GMs for a server with 6 realms and over 16k online players at peak hours, you can't expect a team dedicated to Blackrock. You can collect evidence of the hackers and report them, and they will be dealt with appropriately.



It is natural to feel you are abandoned, as Blackrock was AT's most beloved child and had more attention back in then. But as I said, we give all realms the same attention.



As I said, there isn't staff members dedicated only to Blackrock, and we will never have such thing. There isn't one person to blame.



I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Now I ask you, is this a type of feedback we should take seriously? Is this a real feedback, with suggestions of what we can do to improve, or just something that came to your mind and you want to complain for the sake of it?



The community is damaging itself by splitting in two. We can't do much, but overall Blackrock would have better results should both communities finally accept the merge and become stronger. Wouldn't you like to see more players in Blackrock? Then don't attack those who could join.



If the merge didn't happen, AT would've died. Both communities earned from the merge -- AT ensured survival and have more players to play with, Molten earned the best AT could provide. If AT players feel it is a 'sacrifice' to play here, you are free to go. It is sad to have players thinking they are making us a favour by playing here, this is a free service and our staff works hard to provide the best.



I would like to see these ideas. So far, in this thread, the only type of 'feedback' I've seen is more of a drama, instead of real suggestions explaining how the server can improve from it.



We don't have many ideas for Blackrock. As I said, it has the less bugs and most custom content of all realms. We don't know what to do next. You're free to make suggestions and we'll consider them.



Sure, I'm writing this right now. I hope this will not be needed again after this post.



This is a quite empty feedback. I don't know what you're suggesting. I suggest you to explain it better in another thread, if you wish, and we may take it if it's an exciting idea.



We don't work with marketing, if players want to join Warmane they will do so because this is the best private server for them, not because of marketing.

Hopefully I have answered to all the misconceptions here.

Srsly, what I do not understand is, that how the staff can actually write statements like this when they not even being a part of community on blackrock. I mean are the ppl who played AT since 2010 more reliable then the staff of a server which merged a few month ago with AT? I think so...
I think blackrock is dying too.

But the reason is quite simple. When ur fresh player on blackrock so fcking much hate elapse toward u, even if u just want to try out the soloq bracket. Ppl flame moltenmerge so much this isn't healthy for the server. Do something for the newbs here like when they hit below 1430 rating in 2v2 they'll put in a extra newby bracket or something like this. I always defense the 'noobs' in soloQ but ppl never stop to flame them, even if they aren't so much bad....

Make wf easier obtainable

Edit:
And I know ppl who extra play with full rele even if they obtained full wf just to make ppl go mad in soloQ but then they pwn and flame the Flamers, which is quite entertaining.. :)