1. You already have it in your fist post..

    Pros: Endless rage pool due to ghouls attacking you when using cleave. (counters cleave rage cost) -> not a factor - you have endless rage anyways
    Pros: Enrage talent proccing due to damage. (more dps) -> not a factor - ww already gets you enough adds
    Pros: Biggest Epeen on DPS charts. -> fact
    Pros: Lowers Ghoul Hp making it easier to transfer and stack Necrotic. -> not a factor since necrotic 1 hits them anyways after a few stacks

    Cons: Healers having to work harder healing Ghoul smacks. - not by much, but they still do
    Cons: Slam doesn't proc as often lowering my single target dps.
    Cons: (hc only) slowed movement -> harder to avoid Shadow Traps.


    Pro is basically only your epeen size. If you care about it go for it - you dont hurt your raid much (only small addition to healer time). But you would risk your life on hc.

    Btw make sure you stack sunder armor.. its +-10% physical dps boost even to those, who are arp capped.

  2. Heroic Strike criticals will net you 10 Rage, keep that in mind.
    That is true. But using whirlwind alone will mostlikely agro at least 1 ghoul onto you which will give you an endless pool of rage anyways.

  3. You already have it in your fist post..

    Pros: Endless rage pool due to ghouls attacking you when using cleave. (counters cleave rage cost) -> not a factor - you have endless rage anyways
    Pros: Enrage talent proccing due to damage. (more dps) -> not a factor - ww already gets you enough adds
    Pros: Biggest Epeen on DPS charts. -> fact
    Pros: Lowers Ghoul Hp making it easier to transfer and stack Necrotic. -> not a factor since necrotic 1 hits them anyways after a few stacks

    Cons: Healers having to work harder healing Ghoul smacks. - not by much, but they still do
    Cons: Slam doesn't proc as often lowering my single target dps.
    Cons: (hc only) slowed movement -> harder to avoid Shadow Traps.


    Pro is basically only your epeen size. If you care about it go for it - you dont hurt your raid much (only small addition to healer time). But you would risk your life on hc.

    Btw make sure you stack sunder armor.. its +-10% physical dps boost even to those, who are arp capped.
    So what u're saying is that I don't actually loose single target DPs on LK?

  4. So what u're saying is that I don't actually loose single target DPs on LK?
    LK is single target dps -> you are loosing slam procs, lowering your single target dps, ergo you loose some dps on LK. Considering slam is only minor part of fury dps you are not loosing much singe target dps, so you are not hurting your raid much.

  5. iSullivan's Avatar
    iSullivan
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    So what u're saying is that I don't actually loose single target DPs on LK?
    IF you cared to read the post you will find the two main factors that lower your single target dps - less slam procs, and on heroic when you are slowed by the ghouls and when the tank moves the LK duo to whatever you will lose uptime on him and bigger chance to get hit by the shadowtrap.

  6. IF you cared to read the post you will find the two main factors that lower your single target dps - less slam procs, and on heroic when you are slowed by the ghouls and when the tank moves the LK duo to whatever you will lose uptime on him and bigger chance to get hit by the shadowtrap.
    I did read and I've tested slam proc rate. On 1.5 mill damage you only loose 0.5% damage from slam not proccing as often.
    And that 0.5% damage is only Slam damage which is already lowest part of Fury dps. So that means you loose almost no single target damage whatso ever. And you can supplement that damage with a lucky Taunka proc or a Haste potion.
    Edited: June 30, 2015

  7. So what u're saying is that I don't actually loose single target DPs on LK?
    If by DPs you mean DPS, then no, you do lose single target DPS - HS is more rage-efficient and does more damage, HS also procs Bloodsurge and with high gear it is queued almost all the time so you lose all those Bloodsurge procs. You're saying HS's damage is not that much higher, but that's with Imp Cleave and without factoring rage efficiency and Bloodsurge.

    This reminds me of a BDK DPS discussion where someone was arguing that Obli > DS because its normal hits are higher. You just have to factor everything when you theorize which is better - A or B. And then also you have to realize which of the factors actually matter, just like jendah said.

    And if Slam is your lowest contributor, then there's something wrong with your prioritization. With T10 set bonus and HS being on-queue almost all the time, in addition to BT and WW already, Slam is up on almost every GCD window and becomes a noticeable chunk of your pie chart.
    Edited: June 30, 2015

  8. If by DPs you mean DPS, then no, you do lose single target DPS - HS is more rage-efficient and does more damage, HS also procs Bloodsurge and with high gear it is queued almost all the time so you lose all those Bloodsurge procs. You're saying HS's damage is not that much higher, but that's with Imp Cleave and without factoring rage efficiency and Bloodsurge.

    This reminds me of a BDK DPS discussion where someone was arguing that Obli > DS because its normal hits are higher. You just have to factor everything when you theorize which is better - A or B. And then also you have to realize which of the factors actually matter, just like jendah said.

    And if Slam is your lowest contributor, then there's something wrong with your prioritization. With T10 set bonus and HS being on-queue almost all the time, in addition to BT and WW already, Slam is up on almost every GCD window and becomes a noticeable chunk of your pie chart.
    Do you know how much dps I loose by mixing in Cleave with HS? Because I think you gain more than you loose to be honest. Not only do you gain 400% aoe dps but you also get infinite rage and pretty much the same dps on Lk with addition of enrage procs, 2p T10 procs from Deep wounds on so many targets. You only loose less than 1% damage from Slam.

  9. The AoE doesn't matter, Deep Wounds is almost always on the target with decent gear and even without it rolling on other targets you barely have the time to spend the Slam procs, your rage income at high gear is enormous just from auto-attacks so although the rage gain from the ghouls might seem alluring, you don't actually need it.

  10. Whirlwind will buff Deep Wounds on the Ghouls, that`ll do it.

  11. What if you have Shadowmourne? Does cleave help into proccing SM effect?

  12. What if you have Shadowmourne? Does cleave help into proccing SM effect?
    Nice necro.. yes it does, but its almost irrelevant. Biggest decision comes from your raid tactic - cleave adds or leave them to die from dot. (This way it helps with raging spirits in ph 1.5.)

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