Wich DK talent spec is best for DPS @BiS gear?

[taralej]

In the end ArP Frost > Str Frost because at BiS your damage shifts from Frost Strike towards autos and Obli. Atm I am Frost because it's the most bugfree and because I don't have the gear to go Blood yet - waiting for that goddamn NES to drop. However, THE MOMENT Warmane fixes pet Avoidance, armor, resistances, and damage (which won't be soon, I believe), I'm going straight for Unholy. I tried it, I really did, and I wanted to play it for real but the moment I started getting into raids and saw my pet dying in every fight and my DPS dropping by 1/4, I quit (even tho I had Quel'Delar) and switched to Frost with 2 Nighttimes - my DPS skyrocketed instantly. And no, it wasn't because I failed as Unholy - I know everything about each of the specs there is to know - it's just how things are on Warmane, sadly...

[Huskymudkipz]

In the end ArP Frost > Str Frost because at BiS your damage shifts from Frost Strike towards autos and Obli. Atm I am Frost because it's the most bugfree and because I don't have the gear to go Blood yet - waiting for that goddamn NES to drop. However, THE MOMENT Warmane fixes pet Avoidance, armor, resistances, and damage (which won't be soon, I believe), I'm going straight for Unholy. I tried it, I really did, and I wanted to play it for real but the moment I started getting into raids and saw my pet dying in every fight and my DPS dropping by 1/4, I quit (even tho I had Quel'Delar) and switched to Frost with 2 Nighttimes - my DPS skyrocketed instantly. And no, it wasn't because I failed as Unholy - I know everything about each of the specs there is to know - it's just how things are on Warmane, sadly...

same here >.> waiting for 2nd nighttime to drop to get going and switch blood at high gear :v although unholy feels superior if working as intended :D

[Beanlord]

You only need 5% for melee specials on frost dps.

[Bensten]

You only need 5% for melee specials on frost dps.

Doesn't apply for Pestilence and IT. Also white hits are your 2nd highest dmg source. Going for only 5% as DK is an overall DPS loss.

[Beanlord]

Doesn't apply for Pestilence and IT. Also white hits are your 2nd highest dmg source. Going for only 5% as DK is an overall DPS loss.

Nerves of cold steel
Increases your cahnce to hit with one-handed melee weapons by 1/2/3%
You need a total of 8% for MH cap on bosses,OH cap is 27%(not worth going for) for raid bosses
You are right that it doesn't affect Pestilence and Icy touch.
Staying at an exact cap is a pretty big dps gain since you can devote more sockets to another,usually preferable stat or you could use a different,usually better itemization.This accounts for expertise as well,after you cap it for dodge rating,excess expertise isn't worthless but it's not as good compared to arp(if you're not capped) or str(if you are).
Edited OH hit %

[taralej]

Nerves of cold steel
Increases your cahnce to hit with one-handed melee weapons by 1/2/3%

This doesn't include spells.

You need a total of 8% for MH cap on bosses,OH cap is 27%

That's not how it works, mate.

You are right that it doesn't affect Pestilence and Icy touch.

...and Howling Blast. Also, Blood Boil and Death and Decay, but let's say that's minor.

Staying at an exact cap is a pretty big dps gain since you can devote more sockets to another,usually preferable stat or you could use a different,usually better itemization.This accounts for expertise as well,after you cap it for dodge rating,excess expertise isn't worthless but it's not as good compared to arp(if you're not capped) or str(if you are).

As it was mentioned, autos are your 2nd highest DMG source - which other stat do you think will increase your damage more than hit then, especially when you're still not spell-capped.

[Beanlord]

This doesn't include spells.
That's not how it works, mate.
...and Howling Blast. Also, Blood Boil and Death and Decay, but let's say that's minor.
As it was mentioned, autos are your 2nd highest DMG source - which other stat do you think will increase your damage more than hit then, especially when you're still not spell-capped.

I never said NOCS affects spells.
No it does not work like that
MH hit cap is exactly 8% I'll give u a picture below,OH is 27%
Yes HB,BB,DnD,ty for adding them.
You don't really need to reach spell cap since you'l lget another 6% hit and you could chain Pestilences if you're that worried that you'll miss or you can use pestilence,before Blood strike or w/e else you're using,there's no need for that cap.While autos are indeed your 2nd highest dmg improving OH hit instead of your total dmg done via Str /arp gems will be a waste since Oh doesn't hit that hard(75%).

The pictures as promised
test on MH misses(300 hits 5,25% hit,total hit 8,25% with talants,no other buffs debuffs on target except my own):
http://i.imgur.com/uUwNrcT.jpg

My normal dps and rotation gave me this result with 6,83% hit,9,83% total same buffs and debuffs as above.
Melee: http://i.imgur.com/FbrBnG9.jpg (there are misses only from off hand,obviously)
Obliterate : http://i.imgur.com/2hjhnw0.jpg (only parries since parry cap is 56 expertise)
Howling Blast : http://i.imgur.com/6OUII7A.jpg (1 miss due to lack of spell hit cap)
I can't upload a pestilence,since it doesn't do any dmg thus it's not up in recount,I do miss it from time to time but as you can see that can be worked around,escpecially in a raid envirenment.
I will do 10m dmg if need be,but I am positive that 5% + another 3% from talants are enough for you to cap on specials + MH autos which I find to be a bigger dps gain than to go for a full cap on spell hit + OH hits.

[taralej]

I never said NOCS affects spells.

Well then you realize that extra hit is valuable and that 5% hit is NOT enough.

No it does not work like that
MH hit cap is exactly 8% I'll give u a picture below,OH is 27% [...] The pictures as promised
test on MH misses(300 hits 5,25% hit,total hit 8,25% with talants,no other buffs debuffs on target except my own):
http://i.imgur.com/uUwNrcT.jpg

Spoiler: Show

Mate, do you even know what "dual wield" means? Did you even bother reading the info in the link I posted?

Dual wielding adds a 19% miss penalty to both main and offhand weapons. The base miss rate for all characters is 5%, so each weapon by itself has a 24% chance to miss (19% + 5%).

Do you really think you're dual-wielding while having only one weapon equipped? As long as you have only ONE weapon equipped (off-hand frills don't count), your auto-attack miss chance is 5% (+1%/lvl). THE MOMENT you put a weapon in your off-hand, your auto-attacks get penalized an extra 19% on hit. The misses you have in your second screenshot are from BOTH MH and OH.

The rest of your post is irrelevant since you don't even know how basic game mechanics work, not to mention class mechanics. A shame that a player like you got Bane and near-BiS gear...

[ballaz]

I never said NOCS affects spells.
No it does not work like that
MH hit cap is exactly 8% I'll give u a picture below,OH is 27%
Yes HB,BB,DnD,ty for adding them.
You don't really need to reach spell cap since you'l lget another 6% hit and you could chain Pestilences if you're that worried that you'll miss or you can use pestilence,before Blood strike or w/e else you're using,there's no need for that cap.While autos are indeed your 2nd highest dmg improving OH hit instead of your total dmg done via Str /arp gems will be a waste since Oh doesn't hit that hard(75%).

The pictures as promised
test on MH misses(300 hits 5,25% hit,total hit 8,25% with talants,no other buffs debuffs on target except my own):
http://i.imgur.com/uUwNrcT.jpg

My normal dps and rotation gave me this result with 6,83% hit,9,83% total same buffs and debuffs as above.
Melee: http://i.imgur.com/FbrBnG9.jpg (there are misses only from off hand,obviously)
Obliterate : http://i.imgur.com/2hjhnw0.jpg (only parries since parry cap is 56 expertise)
Howling Blast : http://i.imgur.com/6OUII7A.jpg (1 miss due to lack of spell hit cap)
I can't upload a pestilence,since it doesn't do any dmg thus it's not up in recount,I do miss it from time to time but as you can see that can be worked around,escpecially in a raid envirenment.
I will do 10m dmg if need be,but I am positive that 5% + another 3% from talants are enough for you to cap on specials + MH autos which I find to be a bigger dps gain than to go for a full cap on spell hit + OH hits.

Thx mate :) i very appreciate it. Almost made my choise

[angrylol]

I recommend to all DKs out there to go for 11% spell hit chance from stats and virulence talent. Losing global cooldowns on miss Icy touch opener, pestilence and howling blast procs is too big dps loss. You can't gain that much by trading hit rating for strength.

[taralej]

Thx mate :) i very appreciate it. Almost made my choise

Except that most of the things he has said are wrong.

[Beanlord]

@ taralej,I failed to regard what you mentioned for dual wield,it is MY bad,I hope i haven't misled too many people.Hit cap is indeed what YOU say it is,it is said in multiple sources,i'm juts too blind to see it.As for whether it's worth or not,I still believe it isn't,if people wish to prove me wrong again(I don't mind,it's always good to learn) I'm always up for a dps race,not on dummies preferably,when i'm with 5% and the other person or people have more.

And as for the shame part,no need to overreact there are tons of people that are worse than me in many ways and have achieves and gear,don't you worry about what I have/don't have/will get or what my gear is.

[taralej]

And as for the shame part,no need to overreact there are tons of people that are worse than me in many ways and have achieves and gear.

And that's why I don't play on Warmane. I'm still at my point - having near-BiS gear with a dual wielding DPS spec and not even knowing how dual wield works is a thing of shame, especially when trying to argue about it after being provided with official sources...

[Abra]

It is however still true that at bis, hit rating past the special's cap for frost is inferior to both strength and haste in terms of hypothetical dps, as can be viewed by simming it in rawr/kayhore's.
However as simulations will not always be 100% representative of what you'll experience in a real boss fight, choosing to cap spell hit up to 11% is your subjective choice.

[Beanlord]

I was wrong,you were right,I learned from my mistake,I see no shame here.It would be shameful if I had indeed continued to insist upon what I said earlier.The content may be old but there is always more to learn.The way you acted was awfully rude to be honest,escpesially considering we actually have talked before about blood dps rotations and you were friendly and helping.This is not really what this thread is about tho,so I won't delve even deeper into this,I stand by what I said above,for me the ideal is cap on specials and as abra said rarw confirms it,rarw isn't really that accurate of a tool for a dps test,still I'd very much doubt a build with the purpose of spell hit cap and DW hit cap would fair better against my current setup and as I did mention before I do not mind testing it out,I'm actually very interested as to which would win,on a real boss battle,with the ideal being festergut(0% aoe,no movement)