Wich DK talent spec is best for DPS @BiS gear?

[angrylol]

:D

Assuming on fester you can AMS in smart manner to gain some RP, so losing global GCDs will be great dps loss, as you can obl/froststrike/bloodstrike on each GCD, Pestilence to refresh diseases. Missed howling blast don't provide RP(not entirely sure about this), thats lost damage plus lost more damage with one less froststrike. You can tighten it all up with ERW. If there is druid giving you RP lost GCD hurts you even more.
11% spell hit it is, there is nothing to think about. Same goes for unholy and blood.

[taralej]

You don't Pest to refresh as Frost. If you do, you lose your 3rd Obliterate and your Icy Talons.

C'm on, angrylol - we've been discussing this for close to a month now: the only spec where you'd use Pest to refresh diseases is Blood - for all other specs it's a DPS loss.

[Abra]

From 3.3.3 patch notes (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/patch-notes/3-3-3):

Glyph of Disease: When this glyph causes Frost Fever to be refreshed, it will now also trigger a refresh of Icy Talons.

And given the overly generous rune grace period there should not be problems refreshing the diseases while still allowing to use death runes for obliterate, even with high latency.
The only pve dps spec where Glyph of Disease is not recommended for single target would be Unholy.

[taralej]

Unh was actually exactly what me and angry were arguing about before. I wasn't aware that Pest also refreshed Icy Talons, thank you Abra. But what do you mean that you'd still be able yo use Obli? You're basically using the DD for a Pest + BS instead of a 3rd Obli. Does it end up in more DPS for single-target in the long run?

[Beanlord]

You do the following,after the regular burst + erw runes,you end up,well at least i do usually with BDFFUU,double OB,BS,pest,a few fs,then 3xOB,then 2ob,bs,pest,frost strikes,3x ob and you just repeat that through the entire fight.You'll have about 4 seconds to refresh diseases,even while blood striking before pestilence,but you can't do this with blood subspec or at the very least i can't w/o losing diseases.

[taralej]

Well, Blood subspec is only for low gear anyway. So you're tellin' me Pest + BS > IT + PS for Frost for 1-target?

[Beanlord]

Yes,you waste 1 GCD instead of 2 refreshing diseases and do 3x obliterates in a row,after an rp dump before that.And even if you play with low hit,like I do there's time to cast Pest 2 times before diseases rune out,that screws rune timing a bit,but it's fixable with 1-2 frost strikes before the use of the following 2x death runes.

[Abra]

You refresh the diseases with blood runes only, or every 20 seconds, with the ~2.5 rune grace period it should be possible most of the time.

[Beanlord]

It's possible all the time,the new rune system ensures it,the only way to lose diseases on a target is to either have severe latency issues or to be in a very movement heavy fight like LK

[angrylol]

Idk guys, I think Disease glyph is like must for UH too... it coverts blood rune to death rune(just like blood strike), plus refreshes diseases with 1 blood rune and one GCD, you can SS with those U+F runes, plus SS with death runes on next rune refresh(just like frost spec).
It give me way more damage on most encounters, maybe some DBS dummy specs require icy talons and that 4% str, but I rather drop those so my ghoul can survive, do more damage and I hit SS 3 times instead of 2 in same 20 seconds. 2-3 auto attack hits are cost of that and it's worth it.

P.S.
Don't "rune power dump" with frost, mix in frost strikes to balance runic power and use(let it proc) KM procs. That is great increase even on very high gear. If you manage this good, you can get by with 4/5 in KM and be close to 100% crits on frost strikes. You can drop that talent that increase strikes when target is below 35%(this is low value on Sindra, LK and well where you gotta run and kill adds, spikes, oozes, well you get my point) to increase overall damage with.. 3/3 subversion or blood-caked blade.

[Abra]

Considering your frost strike, obliterate and howling blast should generally make up 50-60% of your damage done, means that Merciless Combat should net you some 1.05% to 1.26% dps increase per point on most fights, compared to ~ 0.8 -1% for BCB and ~0.6-0.8% for Subversion. Having to kill adds does not particularly diminish the value of Merciless Combat imo, since you will generally be dpsing them till their hp reaches zero (with the exception of valks on LK hc), still gaining the benefit from the talent.
In my opinion increase in damage done on the last 35% on fights such as Sindragosa, Professor Putricide, and Lich King is even more important since this marks the boundary of their third phase which you generally want to get through as quickly as possible. And even if you might not be able to damage the boss consistently, when you do have the time to land a couple of attacks, I'd imagine doing the most damage you can at that point would be preferable.

As for GoD on Unholy, SS not being as potent as obliterate is for frost makes Reaping even less of a dps gain compared to frost's Blood of the North that also grants bonus damage on Frost and Blood Strikes. Using up 3 talent points + 1 major glyph slot is generally not as beneficial as spending those points elsewhere and picking up an Icy Touch glyph instead.

[angrylol]

Well, numbers, as small as they are, speak for themselves.

As for glyph of disease, I'll use it always and forever. I'm not going to give up such convenient tool. And reaping is best stuff ever for me, gives me great control over runes and I have way more... adaptable build to any situation in raid. And my Ghoul enrage costs UH rune, so I rather use blood-death rune for it. I like my ghoul being alive, doing more damage and I can consume it when crap hits the fan. Some more SS's over time don't hurt either.

I'm not saying this is best build or only legit build. To each his own I guess, tough I'm doing really fine on heroic icc/rs farming.

Edit: After Night of the Dead, minion stat scaling will be fixed this my build will be obsolete of coarse, but we are here right now, aren't we?

[taralej]

I find GoD more of a burden than a boon as Frost, honestly. It messes up my rotation without providing any significant DPS boost. For Blood it feels natural, as you have BBDDDD and that one Pest just fits right in, allowing you to HS with the otherwise-used 2nd D. For Unh I just cannot imagine GoD being a DPS increase seeing as PS and IT both deal such dmg in this spec.

I consider Merciless Combat a must talent for Frost DPS. Every other DPS tree has a similar talent or the class has an Execution-ish spell, or both (Affllocks with their http://wotlk.openwow.com/spell=47200 and http://wotlk.openwow.com/spell=47855). Not having this talent means you'll fall back in DPS in a time of the fight which could prove to be the most challenging (several DPSers, maybe even healers, dead - raid numbers dropping and the boss kill relying on those who are still alive).

And god damn it, when will they fix Night of the Dead & pet scaling?!? I'm starting to get anxious now...

[Beanlord]

There really isn't any other alternative to Glyph of Disease,you could use IT/HB but they'll both end up worse tha Glyph of Disease

Edit:for frost

[angrylol]

Disease glyph trades one blood strike for one obliterate, gaining more damage, 1 GCD, chance to proc Rime.

There is no "rotation" for frost. There is priority skills:
Frost Strike
Obliterate
Howling Blast+Rime proc only (costs1 GCD, no runes, but grants 20 RP, plus may proc 4pt10 bonus)
Blood Strike( you can use it to get blood runes on CD before you use HB+Rime to proc that 4pt10, only situation where this goes prior to HB+Rime)

Your blood runes will not be used instantly sometimes as you will have killing machine procs to use with Frost stike or Rime proc to use instead of Blood strike. Its not worth to force Blood strikes just to get that one more obliterate, it will give you less damage overall. You will still have bonus obliterates tough.
Druid will give you runic power, your AMS will grant you lots of RP occasionally, use that for your greatest damage hits - Frost Strike, but remember to squeeze in something to proc KM. But nothing bad will happen if you Frost Strike twice in a row too, but still that is dps loss. You can monitor white swings to predict KM procs too and increase damage even further and not waste that GCD for Blood strike as your white hit will proc KM.

Now you see it?