I'm glad I managed to reach a consensus with at least one person in this argument,expertise will hurt you a lot on bosses like PP since the encounter here is just well..bad and bosses like Halion and sindra,altho on halion there is literally nothing other than a feral that can outdps you inside.
Sidenote,this may be off topic but if anyone can give me accurate data on what the EXACT dodge expertise cap is here I'd be mighty grateful,I remember that pre-wipe it was believed to be 21-22 but I can't confirm if it is now lower/higher.
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its 6.5%, that is 26 expertise
14% if you want to attack bosses from front, that's 56 expertise :D
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I know what retail values are,idk if they're the exact same here,it's why i asked
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I believe it was set to retail values. (same with meele hit)
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The parry chance has been recently adjusted, the dodge chance however remains the same, 6% or 24 expertise will have you capped atm.
As to str vs arp debate, as long as frost strike double-dipping remains, gemming strength and forgoing the use of obliterate on death runes in favor of fs spam will be slightly ahead of arp inside ICC (and miles ahead with bql bite), while arp pulls ahead on single target outside of ICC by just as slight of a margin.
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Interesting debate here. I would like to throw in my 5c.
Firstly, with regards to the ArP vs Str thing for frost: Yes, ArP does provide the best dps on a stationary single target (as in it sims out better - by some margin). There is, however, a caveat (or a few, actually) for this to remain true. Way back on retail there was a similar debate, because ArP-capping simmed out notably ahead of Str, but the difference on raid logs was marginal at best, with Str even pulling ahead in several cases. Basically it came down to this: Arp-capping will give you a nett increase IF you have close to 100% uptime on the boss, IF there are very few to no adds and IF the fight involves little to no movement (latency also plays a role here, but it isn't as major as other factors). The main reason for this is that the relative value of melee attacks (and necrosis by extension) increases the more you focus on Arp.
On fights with movement / adds you end up getting less melee attacks in due to the boss moving out of range or you having to move around to adds or whatever. In these cases (as is the case with most fights in ICC) you end up having a higher relative value on your abilities, and specifically your disease damage and HB. All of your aoe (on fights where that is applicable) is increased by Str and unaffected by Arp, so that already places Arp a a slightly lower value on applicable fights (not that there are many fights in ICC with any notable amount of aoe).
Also, as mentioned earlier, your disease damage comes into play when you have adds / target switching. This is mainly because your diseases keep on ticking on multiple targets while you are busy moving between targets etc. Additionally, in fights that require the boss to move you end up losing a noticeable amount of melee attacks due to moving in and out of the boss's hitbox (this is mainly where latency comes into the equation).
All of these issues, of course, can be rectified by experience in both the spec and with the various fights. But the conclusion, in the end, was that for most people you will be better off gearing for Arp (you can easily get 60-70% Arp from gear alone) and gemming Strength. If, however, you are certain that you will have a very high boss-uptime, will be moving correctly and won't be facing significant amounts of adds, Arp- capping will end up being the better option.
As for the GoD debate: In Frost there simply is no question that it is the clearcut best. Not only is your "rotation" simplified, but you also end up with more Obliterates which consequently also give more Rime procs - that's quite aside from the risk of wasting a KM proc on IT.
For UH things get a little more fuzzy, however imo GoD is still your best option (whether you use Reaping or not). It grants you more SS's and makes Pest part of your standard rotation (part of the reason to have a UH in the first place - an aoe 13% spell buff).
As for Blood, it's highly debatable whether you will actually see a nett dps gain by going the GoD route. You lose 1 HS per 2-set rune cycle and gain a DS. However, you have to take into account that HS procs sudden doom (yeah, not a huge difference, but it adds up over the course of a fight). Also, you gain a glyph slot (not that the glyphs for blood are spectacular) that can be used for... well whatever tickles your fancy.
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@ Offbeat the only thing that I don't agree about what you said on frost dps is that AoE is significant in icc.The only bosses in ICC where you kinda ''need'' strong AoE would be LDW for adds and VDW for packs of supressors and worms,on every other boss dps classes focus on single target as much as possible.You could argue that dealing more damage to ghouls will result in less tank damage taken and fewer stacks of NP buff on lk but I don't believe that as any kind of dps really your goal should be to have a stronger AoE for ICC fights.AoE focus should be put probably only inside Ruby Sanctum 25hc mode.
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I think I misspoke there, I meant that the aoe is mostly insignificant in ICC, with only a few fights involving adds (with Putricide being the only really important one - and Sindy if you count the ice blocks).
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ARP will almost always grant higher dmg done to the boss. As long as your guild isn't progressing through content and you really need the higher AOE dps, the higher numbers granted by STR are just misleading.
I'd always take 1k boss dmg over 2k add dmg.
This might be a different story if you struggle to beat an encounter because of missing dps on adds (Lady...). But discussing BiS also somehow includes an acceptable raid setup.
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I think I should clarify myself: Str doesn't only benefit you in aoe situations (which are rare to nonexistant in ICC bossfights), but it also has an effect on fights where you need to switch between targets (Putri, BPC, Marrow if the ranged aren't doing the spikes, LDW, Sindy, LK, VDW for what it's worth.. ie most fights) and also where a fair amount of boss movement is involved. As I said, the main factor is the amount of while melee hits you gain / lose by way of movement or lack thereof, with the other things like disease damage etc playing a relatively minor role.
If, however, you're confident that you will be able to maximize your boss uptime (and white hits by extension) you will see a clear increase from going the full Arp route.
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