Best pvp spec for rogue on wotlk servers?

[Anatomy]

Hi guys, what's the best spec for 2s and 3s?

[-Notorious-]

Subtlety is the spec you're looking for.

[mushamarax]

Subtlety is the spec you're looking for.

Why? Sub is good to start with imo. But in my experience, assassination is better vs platers and gets you higher in the arena rating score boards. One downside is the lack of mobility vs casters. That's why I played a gnome rogue, his extra movement impairment removal is pretty handy.

[Ricks2]

Subtlety is the spec you're looking for.

Pretty much this.

[Mercy]

Why? Sub is good to start with imo. But in my experience, assassination is better vs platers and gets you higher in the arena rating score boards. One downside is the lack of mobility vs casters. That's why I played a gnome rogue, his extra movement impairment removal is pretty handy.

Because a Rogue that knows how to CC is better than a Rogue that can do a little more damage against a plate.

[mushamarax]

Because a Rogue that knows how to CC is better than a Rogue that can do a little more damage against a plate.

What (extra) CC abilities do sub rogues have then, in wotlk that assassination rogues can't do? Except for the improved gouge, I can't come up with one. Improved gouge can indeed be handy to force another sap and thus recovery possibility (eating), but, if well played, an assassination rogue can do the exact same, but it requires better timing.

edit: I assume that an assass rogue does not go for the gouge talents in the combat tree. At least I wouldn't.
edit2: Okay, I forgot about preparation. That does give an CC advantage. But I still prefer assassination as it provides more constant dps whereas sub relies heavily on it's shadowdance burst.

[-Notorious-]

What (extra) CC abilities do sub rogues have then, in wotlk that assassination rogues can't do? Except for the improved gouge, I can't come up with one. Improved gouge can indeed be handy to force another sap and thus recovery possibility (eating), but, if well played, an assassination rogue can do the exact same, but it requires better timing.

edit: I assume that an assass rogue does not go for the gouge talents in the combat tree. At least I wouldn't.
edit2: Okay, I forgot about preparation. That does give an CC advantage. But I still prefer assassination as it provides more constant dps whereas sub relies heavily on it's shadowdance burst.

You can shadowstep during shadowdance to put down stuns on the healer. Subt has, is, and always will be the superior spec for 2v2 and 3v3. I'm sorry that I'm putting it bluntly, but just because you prefer assassination, it does not become a stronger spec.

I'm not saying you can't play assassination well. I'm sure you can. But the OP asked for the best spec, and that is Subtlety.

[Ricks2]

What (extra) CC abilities do sub rogues have then, in wotlk that assassination rogues can't do? Except for the improved gouge, I can't come up with one. Improved gouge can indeed be handy to force another sap and thus recovery possibility (eating), but, if well played, an assassination rogue can do the exact same, but it requires better timing.

edit: I assume that an assass rogue does not go for the gouge talents in the combat tree. At least I wouldn't.
edit2: Okay, I forgot about preparation. That does give an CC advantage. But I still prefer assassination as it provides more constant dps whereas sub relies heavily on it's shadowdance burst.

1) Imp gouge.
2) step kick
3) step gouge
4) step sap
5) dance sap
6) dance cs
7) dance garrote
8) dance > premed > deadly throw an assa rogue (or anything without mobility cool downs for that matter) while you kill his partner

Also you can't reset to eat off of a gouge > sap (it's 5-5, combat alone takes 6). And what kind of Assa Rogue doesn't have prep?

[Krohlee]

What (extra) CC abilities do sub rogues have then, in wotlk that assassination rogues can't do? Except for the improved gouge, I can't come up with one. Improved gouge can indeed be handy to force another sap and thus recovery possibility (eating), but, if well played, an assassination rogue can do the exact same, but it requires better timing.

edit: I assume that an assass rogue does not go for the gouge talents in the combat tree. At least I wouldn't.
edit2: Okay, I forgot about preparation. That does give an CC advantage. But I still prefer assassination as it provides more constant dps whereas sub relies heavily on it's shadowdance burst.

Its actually very simple, assassination (or as the most popular version of the spec is called, Envenom or mutilate spec) has to apply deadly poison to use its main dps finisher. which means abilities like blind, sap or gouge cant be applied to the current dps target for a swap (which most rogue comps benefit from greatly).

On retail assassintions/envenom spec's were the most popular for rogues. but not because its better, but because it has no need for a massive amount of armor pen gear (which means ALOT of top tier pve) just to pvp. in a more thought out meta (as the one that has been created since the 3.3.5 have been opened for years after) sub in bis gear ends up being the best spec. it has better burst, better control , better mobility and can swap targets on a dime. assassination could technically swap just as well as sub if they arnt using deadly poison... but at this point your not doing more dmg too players then are you ?

Oh and muti/eve has the worst mobility of the 2 main pvp rogue specs. Shadowstep is fantastic ;p

[sushikitty]

I play sub rogue for a few years now. I wouldn't play anything else. Combat is fun once in a while but I haven't played it in months.

[mushamarax]

Its actually very simple, assassination (or as the most popular version of the spec is called, Envenom or mutilate spec) has to apply deadly poison to use its main dps finisher. which means abilities like blind, sap or gouge cant be applied to the current dps target for a swap (which most rogue comps benefit from greatly).

On retail assassintions/envenom spec's were the most popular for rogues. but not because its better, but because it has no need for a massive amount of armor pen gear (which means ALOT of top tier pve) just to pvp. in a more thought out meta (as the one that has been created since the 3.3.5 have been opened for years after) sub in bis gear ends up being the best spec. it has better burst, better control , better mobility and can swap targets on a dime. assassination could technically swap just as well as sub if they arnt using deadly poison... but at this point your not doing more dmg too players then are you ?

Oh and muti/eve has the worst mobility of the 2 main pvp rogue specs. Shadowstep is fantastic ;p

Aham, you're right. I did play sub for a while, liked it very much, but probably it was because of the private server I was playing on, but 90 % of the top arena rogues we're assassination, so I (perhaps wrongly, so it seems) assumed assassination was the way to go. I do acknowledge that sub requires more skill, if you want to play it well, that is

[mushamarax]

Also you can't reset to eat off of a gouge > sap (it's 5-5, combat alone takes 6). And what kind of Assa Rogue doesn't have prep?

You're right. Jezus, I'm getting very rusty at this :P. It has been a while snice i Played WOTLK. Seems like I'm mixing things up with cata, where assassination rogues don't have prep, if I recall correctly. Although it IS a fact that sub rogues in WOTLK can reduce CD on prep by 3 mins, which is in effect a (CC) advantage over assass rogues

[IzzyData]

Subtlety is the best for the majority of situations.

For arena you could potentially brute force your way through with assassination and a good healer, but that is kind of boring. It just isn't as elegant feeling as subtlety.