1. May 18, 2018  
    Chocker loses by 3 stats and gem color and you still need that 289 hit rating( you have 297 in BiS gear)
    You lose stats if you offset the hit loss of using Choker by using a hit ring.
    You have a net gain in stats if you use Choker and Rapid Ascent.


  2. May 21, 2018  
    i am only curious why you pick for BIS necklace "Amulet of the Silent Eulogy" instead of "Blood Queen's Crimson Choker" which provide you more useful critical on blood queen necklace and also hard to stack then hit from amulet ?!
    The Amulet has more overall stats than the Choker, and a slightly better socket.

    Rapid Ascent also has more overall stats than Valanar's Ring, which is why OP's list features that instead of the BPC ring that tends to be commonly paired with Choker.

    The set that should accumulate you the most total amt of stats with the least amount of Hit Rating wasted over the cap (assuming you don't use the Icewalker enchant) should use the following:
    - Amulet
    - Rapid Ascent
    - Gunship Mittens (GSB hands)
    - Tier Legs

    This is the "variation" of BiS that maximizes stat weight value (it has the least wasted hit rating and swaps haste for crit, as crit is better after 1269 Haste). In an actual fight, stat weight values will deviate from the ones off Simcraft because the usage of spells like Mind Sear for instance will reduce the value of Crit and shift it more in favour of Haste. So the BiS for that fight would be the one that had more Haste in lieu of Crit, like the one in OP's guide.

  3. May 21, 2018  
    7 sec b4 pull: use nevermelting and equip trinket ( ignore if you have two ICD trinkets aka DFO + Phyla )
    1 sec b4 pull: use wild magic potion
    There are two cases of pull rotation
    1. Raid uses BL on pull ( aka Marrow )
    MF => Shadowfiend( usually BL casts 2-3 sec into the fight and your pet will get it 99% of cases) => eng gloves enchant(berserk if troll) => VT => DP => SWP
    2. Raid uses BL at some point of the fight ( not on pull)( aka BQL)
    eng gloves enchant(berserk if troll) => VT => DP => MF => SWP => Shadowfiend
    I dont use SWD at my rotation unless Im dodging a mechanic and have a free gcd to use.
    You can go even more minmax by using LK 10 hc staff with full crit gems to apply SWP
    Other than that guide looks great.
    The thing about NMIC is that you're supposed to lose its buff if you don't have the trinket on you.

    The opener is solid. The only thing I'd add about the BL opener is if you're a Troll and an Engineer, you should try and get off a Devouring Plague cast at the last second of your Berserking Racial. This will involve clipping 1 tick of DP, but that's more than worth it to have that 2nd DP keep all that Haste and all those spellpower procs. The 1st DP that got clipped would likely not have that many sp procs buffing it anyway. I find this 2nd super-buffed DP also ends at a time that allows me to cast my 3rd DP in the final seconds of Phylactery.

    This opening sequence makes the most out of your DoT's snapshotting of Haste and Spellpower effect.

  4. May 25, 2018  
    tnx on info and right point! it helps me a lot!

  5. July 8, 2018  
    Question about proper haste cap and gemming.

    I encountered many people telling me about 1300 haste cap, and i don't really understand why. Only thing i can think of is 1308 haste for 1648 cap with engi hands or 1323 for bl/hero. Tho i want to ask - what is the best haste cap for "nontroll" (+without engi) priest and why.

    Second question is about around bis gemming (with haste cap) - does it worth to gem 12sp 10 crit (and also 12 sp 10 spirit) or 23 sp most slots is better?

    http://armory.warmane.com/character/...ecrown/summary

    Thx in advance.

  6. July 9, 2018  
    My best guess would be they just rounded up 1269 to the nearest hundred.

    Simcraft suggests Haste is your best secondary stat until 1269, after which its value dips a bit. It's worth gemming 12sp 10 crit in yellow sockets over 12sp 10 haste if you have more than 1269 Haste.

    12sp 10 spirit should be worth gemming (by a very tiny margin) into a solitary blue socket that gives you at least +5sp.

  7. So I just started a Spriest currently level 21 and so far loving it but have a question. In regards to the talents, in which order do I do it? Im using the cookie cutter one as im new and seems like a starting one but I just don't know what to put my points into first, also as a low level what would be a good combo?

  8. So I just started a Spriest currently level 21 and so far loving it but have a question. In regards to the talents, in which order do I do it? Im using the cookie cutter one as im new and seems like a starting one but I just don't know what to put my points into first, also as a low level what would be a good combo?
    Good luck with the leveling bud ^^ It is quite a challenge as a priest, since on the higher levels you might run out of mana a lot.
    I think this leveling guide is a useful one: http://www.thewowcrafters.com/2011/0...ng-talent.html

  9. Good luck with the leveling bud ^^ It is quite a challenge as a priest, since on the higher levels you might run out of mana a lot.
    I think this leveling guide is a useful one: http://www.thewowcrafters.com/2011/0...ng-talent.html
    Thanks a ton Nemmish! The link is really helpful :)

  10. Hey guys so i'm new to shadow priest in the sense that i've played it for a month or so. In this time i'm sitting at 3 pieces of T9.5 gear.

    My question is: When i get my 4th T9.5 piece and therefore fulfill my setbonus, should i then switch over to not using mindblast? I know that you should definitely do so with 4 pieces of T10 gear... I'm just wondering if it's more beneficial to make the change at 4 pieces of T9.5 or if that would result in a dps loss? Thank you very much for your time (And the guide!)

  11. Hey guys so i'm new to shadow priest in the sense that i've played it for a month or so. In this time i'm sitting at 3 pieces of T9.5 gear.

    My question is: When i get my 4th T9.5 piece and therefore fulfill my setbonus, should i then switch over to not using mindblast? I know that you should definitely do so with 4 pieces of T10 gear... I'm just wondering if it's more beneficial to make the change at 4 pieces of T9.5 or if that would result in a dps loss? Thank you very much for your time (And the guide!)
    If I am not mistaken "not using" Mind Bast in a rotation is rather depending on your haste, not the set bonus, and for this you need something around 1k. Not sure on this, so if some more experienced priest player could confirm or confute this statement, it would be great ^_^
    Also when you get 4 pieces of t10, you can still squeeze in 1-2 mind blasts per fight (when a tick, you have to refresh is just about to expire, but there is no time for a full Mind Flay).


    Edit: Nevermind, it seems that only at the 4 set bonus of t10 it is worth dropping MB out of the strict rotation, and it doesn't depend on the haste levels. Since that's when Mind Flay gets enough of a boost to its damage.
    Also the former statement is still right, of that if a dot (VT, DP) is about to expire, but it is not worth to cast a new Mind Flay, since you couldn't finish it, it is better to cast a MB in beetween to have the perfect dot refresh than to start a MF, or to do nothing till your dot drop.

    I hope this helped, have fun with the shadow priest ^_^
    Edited: November 12, 2018

  12. Some adjustment regard to what i have learned

    Hello,

    so, as first, i would like to introduce myself, thus you see me not just storytelling. To began with, I am playing shadow priest for a couple of years, amongst more servers. On this server I play mostly troll shadow priest named Shabloshuura, on Lordaeron, in Raven (previously The Company), hence pretty much high end-game raiding. We slayed Halion and Bane, but not LoD yet, to be frank. Amongst our shadow priest community we have done a lot of math, research and testing about neraly all of the aspect of a shadow priest aspects.

    By this reply i want to react on some points that have been made in this thread, mainly regard to the original post. I have objections to few and disagree with one certain.

    1. Gemming (objection)

    In the point "1. Gear and stats" you setting a notion called "equivalent values to SP", what other sources call "pseudopower regard to spell power"(will reffer to it as PP). I got the approximetely same values with the exception of intelect, where i have found the value 0,27, but its not that important. My question is : Why you ignoring it in the gemming chapter? On the simple endgame pieces I will show you SP+spirit is in some cases better than 23 SP gem. I will highlight only stats what are changing with gemming.

    For instance:
    Plague Scientist's Boots:-------------SP+spirit gem ---------------only SP gems---
    blue gem ------------------------------------- 12x1+10x0,59--------------------------23---------------
    red gem ----------------------------------------------------- 23 --------------------------------------23---------------
    socket bonus +7SP -------------------------------- 7-------------------------------------------0----------------
    Total PP ----------------------------------------------------- 47,9-------------------------------------46---------------

    Clearly it is not a matter of choice, its just no-brain to gem 23SP to both slots. Same goes for Crushing Coldwraith belt.

    Conclusion for the point 1. : Always calculate PP values for every gemming desicion, do not generalize.


    2. Stats values and haste caps (objection)

    When you using those PP values (and for further dot crippling theme), you have to keep those things on mind:
    - conversions of haste, crit and intelect to SP are dividing functions hence their marginal benefit is decreasing. To explain, with every added unit the benefit gained is smaller than benefit gained with previous added unit. That means, their PP value is approximation at the some point, its changing with base stat when adding a point. The value used for haste (0,98) is basically true, when you are at about 635 haste rating. But its rate of decreasing of the marginal benefit is so low, that it has a value about 0,95 whilst on soft cap (1269 rating),
    - conversions of spell power, hit and spirit are linear functions, so their marginal benefit is constant. That means their PP is alwways the same,
    - SW:P benefits only from SP and crit,
    - VT, DP, MF benefit from SP, haste, crit,
    - SP is converted to the each and every tick of dot/MF,
    - haste and crit are converted to the spell from the time of a cast of the spell, and kept for the whole duration. (Inner focus used in conjunction with SW:P is an exception - crit bonus (25%) is not kept for the whole duration).

    When you drawing conclusions about the haste caps, you need to know what those mean. Generaly, a haste cap is a point, at which some spell cast time gets to the point, when its equal to the global cooldown under specific conditions.
    We can assume our global cooldown to be 1s, as we are discussing the end game playstyle.
    Soft haste cap (1269) represents certain rating, when VT cast time with Totem of wrath and haste buff from paladin or boomkin aura is equal to 1s (regular raid conditions).
    But keep on mind, haste caps only count towards "casting time" not "duration time". With soft cap you are constrained only for casting of VT. Not by far for MF. How much will you lose expressed in time when you will be slightly overcapped, when the only spell cast losing is VT, when even with 1600 rating (48,8%) +aura+totem your cast time will be 0,9386s compared to 1s gcd? Try to count in also a latency.
    On the other hand consider, your dots dont care about caps. They benefiting endlessly. You can see it on Vezax on stacked shadocrashes, when whole duration of VT is less than 1 second. So with stopping on soft haste cap you getting 0,0614s on VT cast time whilst losing all the haste what could be put on VT, DP and MF through whole fight.
    Other spell where you can care about some haste cap is MF, only other casted spell of your arsenal than VT (when not using MB). But, there is no chance you will get MF to 1s unless Bloodlust or Heroism is present, or any other haste buff provided by environment (shadowcrash, Hodir beam, Ignis pot). When you consider, BL/Hero is up for 35s in the aproxximetely 6 min fight, its about 10%. 10% of whole fight, when you should care about your MF to be shorter than 1s. You can just not to use haste potion, berserking or hyperspeed accelerators at the time of BL/Hero, and you fine for whole fight.
    Only issue what can rise it the thing, that marginal benefit of points of haste added at that high ratings (over 1300) can be that low, so it will turn to not be gut enough to overcome the crit.

    My conclusion for the point 2.: Do not stop on any haste cap, go for what gear allows you, but never go for haste over SP and never gem crit over haste.



    3. Dot Crippling (disagreement)

    Frankly, this is the point why I started to reply to this thread, the rest was just like "when I started, I will complete it". This Dot Crippling is missinterpreted so often, it forced me to clear it once more.

    An axiom: "NEVER EVER CRIPPLE A DOT!" is false, and should not be followed, unless you very unexperienced, and you want to absorb things one by one.

    As first, lets discuss what is dot crippling, and why it is considered as called "unwanted". In my opinion, its reapplying (not recasting!) the dot before it has ended its duration.
    Why it is unwanted. Generaly, because you losing the tick/s soft way (gap is regular, just dot is shorterv- consequently losing mana, cause you have to redo more often), and you may also lose the tick hard way, what means like it never happened (gap between two ticks is nearly 2 times bigger than regular gap).

    There are 3 scenarios what can be the result of crippling:
    1. you lose dps,
    2. you maintain dps,
    3. you gain dps.

    First case happened when you execute a crippling wrongly. Second case if you execute it well, and third when you execute it well and with some benefit associated with the haste.

    When crippling, you need to know few things. In the endgame there si no difference between last and penultimate tick, as you only losing mana cause of often redoing, and mana is not an issue at that stage. That means, crippling is just simply redoing the dots not on the last tick. Hence, the only critical thing, what will determine if maintaining or losing is when you cast the dot. If you master the art of crippling, you can recast after every tick and it will appear as a dot is ticking as normal. Thus these crippling tips are applicable for redoing as well.

    What is mandatory for precise crippling execution is some Addon, what shows EVERY TICK of dots, not just duration. I personally use EventHorizon, its best for dot tracking I would say, but its slightly difficult to set, as it can be personalized only by Note pad programming. But Good setting of NeedToKnow should serve the puspose as well.

    Basically we are crippling 3 things VT, DP and MF. Now ill explain how to cripple "to not lose", and after I will explain how to "cripple to benefit".

    DP crippling
    Probably the easiest one. This also includes instant dmg at the start. Worth to mention, "The Time of Application" is what we need to follow when considering the crippling. But the DP has no "flying time", no "casting time", thus its "time of application" is same as "time of casting".
    That means, we want to get it applied right after tick, thus we get tick as well as immediate instant dmg + next tick in the shortest time possible. This way you also will get one"additional tick" represented by instant dmg from a talent, and your dot will continue as nothing happened regard to gut execution of crippling. So, you see ticks inc, you wait for tick, and right after tick you cast DP. Of course, does not matter what tick (can be even first or last), you just have to do it right after tick. If you cripple too soon, you will lose the time already passed from previous tick + time to next tick, what will feel like you have lost a whole tick.

    VT crippling
    This one is slightly more complicated than DP because of the issue, that "time of teh cast" is not the same as "application time". But as I said, in teh crippling of dots, the important one is "application time". So, we want to achieve that state, that dot is applied on the target right after tick happened. What you need to do, is time casting of your VT that way, it will land on the target right after tick. Thats basicaly it.

    MF crippling
    Easily, you dont cripple MF becasue of dot reapplying with an exception of the case described in next paragrapf. You and then MF and then reapply DP/VT. You cripple MF only if you have to move becasue of encounter mechanics.

    Cripple to benefit
    So how to cripple the dots to gain from it? It results from what I have wrtten previously. VT and DP keep benefit of a haste from the time of casting for whole duration. So, cripple to benefit means redo VT and DP at the end of bigger haste cooldowns, thus those will keep they haste for whole duration eventhough the haste buff is already gone. You just behold the durations pf those haste cd-s, and when they are at about 2sec, you track the ticks and redo regard to what i have written above for teh certain dot. Bigger haste cooldowns are considered BL/Hero, Power Infusion, Potion of Speed, Berserking (Trolls) and combination of eng gloves and black magic (but only combination!). Of course, tailor for the situation, if 2 cd-s ending 2 sec one after other, dont redo 2 times, consider what is more beneficial.
    One additional information, cause I saw it somewhere in this thread as well - dont redo dots at the end of SP cooldowns (trinkets mostly), as I said, SP is calculated to each and every tick, not to the dot as whole, so no point.

    Conclusion for the point 4.: It is possible to cripple dots even to achieve benefit, if you do it right, as I have described above.

    If you have any obligations or questions, just reply to this, I will try to explain/elaborate.

    My name is Shabloshuura and I have spoken.

    Best regards.
    Edited: December 11, 2018

  13. Well indeed, this playstyle is a way to cripple your dot damage :D
    I don't think there is any way where clipping a dot would benefit you. Maybe if you mean the above as to refresh the dots right as they run out. Which is a possible gameplay, and much more efficient than to calculate dot timers and clipping into action.
    I would rather recommend to master the play of refreshing the dots, and providing a continuous dot damage that way. If you clip them, you will cripple them :D

    correction:
    If the boss get too far away from you, or you won't be able to damage it for a longer time than what your dots have on it at the time, it is worth to clip them.
    aka. Sindy air phase, LK mid phase
    Apart from these there is no benefit to clip the dots.
    Edited: December 13, 2018

  14. Could anyone tell me the Pre-raid BiS list for Spriest? Tried looking around and can't find one anywhere.

  15. One additional information, cause I saw it somewhere in this thread as well - dont redo dots at the end of SP cooldowns (trinkets mostly), as I said, SP is calculated to each and every tick, not to the dot as whole, so no point.

    Best regards.
    Not true, the SP at apply time is the SP for the whole duration.

    There probably are certain points where it's worth clipping but just saying X buffs are needed is not enough. There would be too many variables, including whether or not you can recast at more or less exactly after the penultimate tick (gl with that, lag, mind flay casts etc will make it rather unpredictable).
    Someone would have to do the math.

    Otherwise as Nemmish said, clipping can be worth if you won't be in range of the boss for a while.

    Additionally, clipping would be worth it if you have applied your dots after getting hit by a malleable goo on fester/pp. After your debuff expires of course.

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