Hello, guys can someone write BIS items list for BM hunt pve wow wotlk.
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Member
pve bm bis list
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Member
I've been after a proper BiS PVE gear-list myself, but an accurate one seems hard to find (for good reason - BM isn't designed to be a serious raiding spec in 3.3). A lot of the lists out there are plain wrong with their own various crack-pot theories about the spec.
Edited: September 1, 2015
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Member
If i will use gear from mm just try change some items were will be less arp will be good?
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Member
Hey! Invmeeplz here from Deathwing. Pre Moltdown I had bis BM and was able to pull 20k on DBS 25hc. Here is a withdraw from my BM guide:
Rule is simple STACK AP!!
thats why u should wear:
Head: t10 hero
Neck: Sindra 25hc
Shoulders: Rot 25hc
Back: GSB 25hc
Chest: T10 hero
Bracers: GSB 25hc
Hands: T10 hc
Waist: Fester 25hc
Legs: t10 hc
Boots: RS 25hc
Rings: RS 25hc + ashen
Trinks: STS + WFS hc
Xbow: LK 25hc
Weapon: Distrand Land hc
If ya need any other info PM me
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Member
You definitely want your Arp-capped. The Arp you are going to naturally acquire from ICC Hunter pieces is going to push your Arp up to a level where it's going to be worthwhile to pursue more of it. Your personal DPS (i.e. your damage without your pet included) will contribute something like 60-70% of your overall DPS - all of which benefits heavily from Arp, since those abilities are all physical attacks like Steady Shot, Auto-shot, or Aimed/Multi-Shot, which is why you want to pursue the Arp cap so fiercely - and why BiS lists which would have you pick up non-Arp pieces to the point where you'd sit at only 1000-1100 Arp are wrong.
To put the importance of Arp for BM Hunters into perspective, you can compare it to how much use it provides for MM, since it's already established beyond dispute that Arp is the best MM stat at BiS gear. Only 65-70% or so of MM's damage actually benefits from Arp - just like only 65-70% of BM's damage benefits from Arp, and yet Arp is an immensely important MM stat. It's exactly the same for BM Hunters here. Any 3.3 Hunter spreadsheet will confirm what I'm saying here, although it's still unclear to me what BM's BiS list ought to be, in light of its different stat priorities (it values Haste higher than it does Crit, for instance).Edited: September 1, 2015
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Member
Dbw bm hunter shouldnt use?
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Member
Short ansfer is NO.
Explaination:
With proper gear/build you are doing same dps as your pet. So lets look closer at it.
Your pet is not getting anything from your armor penetration. That means Arpen affects only Multi-shot, steady shot, kill shot and auto shoot. Its like 44% of your total dps,
Your pet is getting some crit from agility while you are getting some crit and AP (which scales with ur pet AP),
Your pet is getting alot of AP from raw AP (scales perfectly)
Your pet is getting some crit from raw crit.
That means while using DBW you have 33% chance to improve your and yours pet dps by good amount and 67% to improve YOUR dps slightly for 20 sec every 90 sec. + Arpen passive increases less than half of your dmging abilities.
On the other hand while using WFS hc you have 100% chance to increase your and yours pet DPS for 15 sec every 45sec. + passive crit increases your dps and scales with pet.
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Member
Handful of things.
- Pets don't inherit the Hunter's Crit Rating at all. Nor Agility (although they gain some indirect benefit from Agility in that they inherit some of the AP the Hunter gains from said agility).
- If you're saying the Hunter's personal physical damage accounts for only 44% of his damage, that's implying his pet contributes 56% of his damage output - which is obviously incorrect. Your pet does at MOST 35-40% of your damage in a fully raid-buffed setting, which means the remaining 60-65% of your damage will be entirely from physical attacks. Unless of course you haven't dropped Arcane Shot from your rotation - which you should after a certain point of Arp. But even then, my point still mostly stands because Arcane Shot doesn't account for more than 5-6% of your total damage anyways.
- Mail gear in ICC/RS comes with large enough amounts of Arp to make it your greatest stat. This holds true for all Hunter specs. Basically every spreadsheet from 3.3.5 confirms this. As an inevitable consequence of Arp gradually taking its spot as the supreme stat, the spec which had the greatest affinity for Arp, i.e. MM, took over as the best Hunter spec.Edited: September 2, 2015
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Member
This. I tried raiding in BM/surv, and had pretty okay results (still inferior to MM), but I tried both with full arp gear. Reason being, that you're so close to the arp cap anyways with all the 25 hc gear, that you might as well get to the cap (arp scales exponentially, so the more you get the better). That's the theory I had when I tried it, and it turned out okay, you're spamming steady shots all the way with any hunter spec in 3.3.5, which is pure physical damage, so arp benefits from it highly. Autoshots make up for a lot of your dps as well (more than steady shots if I can recall correctly). which again, benefits from arp. Pets don't do enough damage as BM when you have good gear to make it worth it stacking AP (losing arp cap etc.).
AP is probably better than agility as BM, so you could still change gems if you think that will increase your dps (I think the increase is so minimal that it's not worth changing gems, you might as well just go BM with your regular MM gear, so you can switch specs).
Good luck!
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Member
Thank you you helped me very much
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Member
Well let me reply to this:
1. You are right that pet is not getting anything from hunt crit rating, but hes getting AP from agility (cause agility gives hunt AP and that AP scales with pet).
2. Attacks affected by armor penetration does around 44% of total dps. Why? Cause ur pet should do 50% and your magical attacks are doing rest (explosive trap, serpent sting, arcane shot)
3. Mail gear in ICC/RS gives you max 900 armor pen. If you stack Arpen you increase hunters dps but not his pet (as i said u increase ur 44% of total dmg only). By stacking raw AP u improve 100% of ur dmging abilities + ur pet dmg.
Noone here argues that MM is the best hunter spec but it doesnt mean BM is low. Its funny, its broken and still it can pull decent numbers. short before moltdown with bis gear i menaged to pull 21k dps on DBS while top dps was 26k (MM).
Using arpen as hunt is same as using arpen as ret. You can gear urself in a way to be close to cap but it doesnt mean its the best way.
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Banned
Ur pet does never 50% of ur dmg in highend gear but rather 30%-40%.
In additional u use explosive traps like never and arcane shot is only used while moving because steady shot does more dmg when u have a certain amount of arp. The only magical attack that is covered in the default rotation is serpent sting.
It was only the case like one year ago when the pet dmg scaling was positive bugged and BM was topping the dmg charts with the pet doing 50-60% of the dps.Edited: September 3, 2015
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Member
1. You just stated what DarkenedHue said but in your own words, so, yea...
2. If you stack attack power, and have bad gear, and no arp cap, then your pet might do close to 50% of total damage, I suppose. You don't use explosive trap unless there's adds or you are in melee range of the boss, but for most ICC/RS fights (except for 25 HC Halion, where explosive trap is amazing) you can't use it. Serpent sting does around 3% of your total dps as MM. You also don't use arcane shot unless you HAVE to move and all other instant spells are on cooldown. If you add everything up, MAXIMAL 5% of your damage is magical for MM/BM. For MM (and well, for BM almost the same holds true, because auto shots and steady shots do almost the same damage if you have the same gear), only your auto shots and steady shots combined do 40-45% of total damage. Aimed shot does about 10% of your total damage. Add everything up, and you get 50-55% physical damage, even for BM (actually, it's more than this, because MM does more dps than BM, so %-wise, BM does more physical damage).
3. BiS MM hunter gear list has 1140 arp without gems, so you need to gem for 260 arp (you lose 520 AP compared to gemming AP) to reach the cap. I'd say this is more than worth it, considering such a high % of your damage is physical damage, even as BM. As said before, arp also scales exponentially; the more arp you have, the more valuable each arp point gets.
I would test both ways of gearing if I still played, but I quit a while ago. I still think capping arp is better than those few AP gems, even as BM.
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Member
1. If you stack AP with proper gear your pet IS doing 50% of your dmg.
2. Ofc u use explosive traps even as MM - if u didnt know that already that means you didnt raid at high end content with the best. Whats more some of MM using improved explo trap talent and glyph of explosive trap. Ill post here ss of dmg done by it tomorrow. (right from our main run). You also use arcane shot in your rotation since you have around 600-700 arpen and ur steady is still comparable to arcane. If you sum it up magical damage is like 10-15% with explosive traps and around 5-7% without it.
3. Im not going to argue with people who didnt even test BM spec with different variations. Enough said that I played BM for 6 years, tested all kind of gear starting from AP going through Arp, t9, Agi and ending with freaky variations like SP stacking.
Sadly i dont have screenshots atm but im going to post some as soon as I regem my hunt.
Cheers
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Member
This incorrect 50% pet damage figure is where your disagreement probably stems from. In BiS ICC gear your pet does at most 40% of your damage. Not only is the benefit from all the Arp/Crit/Haste exclusive only to you as the Hunter, but the fact that the coefficients of your abilities are significantly higher means that you will simply out-scale your pet by the time you're decked out in iLevel 277/284 gear. The only way it would actually do more than that is if you gimped your own DPS unnecessarily by wearing lots of inoptimal pieces.
You're brushing aside the complexity of the math involved here when you over-simplify the AP vs Arp discussion to "benefiting 100% of your damage" vs "benefiting 44% of your damage". That comparison fails to reflect the fact that the benefit to the 44% (which actually is a figure a lot higher than that - upwards of 65%) is extremely monumental because of the way Arp works - much moreso than the benefit to the 100% of your damage AP would provide.
We can discuss the theory behind the AP vs Arp matter until the cows come home but the fact of the matter is that all the math on the matter overwhelmingly lines up on the side of Arp. Again, basically every 3.3.5 spreadsheet confirmed this, and unless something is seriously bugged on here with both AP/Arp, no one will be able to produce evidence showing otherwise.
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