Let's talk about city guards.

[Markux]

There is nothing with guards, with what a well-organized group can't deal with. .

I ABSOLUTELY agree and the bad groups should be punished - but it's the players that should punish them, not an overpowered mob.

I agree with mark too.

The amount of damage that guards do at this point is redonkulous. Suddenly having 4 guards on you out of the blue is hard to survive.

Also world pvp is World Player Versus Player. Yes, npc's can appear and attack, but they shouldn't do equal damage to another player.

Regards.

THANK YOU.

[Obnoxious]

Furthermore World PvP is still PvP - Player Versus Player. It's PvP in the world. There is no implication that it should be versus whatever is around there but there is also nothing to say that is shouldn't be. People interpret it differently.

The world isn't the bubble you want to close yourself in, though. If you want to call it "world" PvP and not have anything in the environment get involved, do it in a place without anything at all besides players. Otherwise you might want to preach about "bubble PvP" instead.

Furthermore my opinion has always been to make it more PvP centric. About player versus player. One faction fighting against the other and removing the other stuff that gets in the way, but I see that my opinion isn't shared so it's obvious that I wasted my time writing about something Warmane views as a non-issue.

World of Warcraft itself isn't "PvP-centric." It started as a PvE game. PvE servers are called "Normal" servers. Most of the content in it is PvE-centric. PvP is just one part of the game, and a pretty small one at it. If you want to do "pure PvP" go to a pure PvP area, without any PvE content around.

[Markux]

World of Warcraft itself isn't "PvP-centric." It started as a PvE game. PvE servers are called "Normal" servers. Most of the content in it is PvE-centric. PvP is just one part of the game, and a pretty small one at it.

I'm just going to put this here.

[Justmarried]

None or less, I agree, been here since 2011, guards used to be easier to handle and still doing quite enough damage to raid that attacks a city, but also... since it is a main city, it seems reasonable. Regarding to *Officers* well, they do 1shot people so I am rather sure most of us would agree to nerf them atleast for little bit and as for BB and gadgadzen, yes those should be nerfed, it used to be fun on Tanaris, but after this, we are just getting demolished and there are no more people anymore.
Regards, Justmarried of TFK.

[Obnoxious]

I'm just going to put this here.

And? That's it? Should I pretend that server flag means more than simply that PvP isn't limited by personal flagging?
Sure, I'll play along.

Show me how in PvE servers there's no PvP content - that's what, arenas, Battleground, duels and random attacks? Not a whole lot, but that should just make it easier for PvE servers to not have them, right?

Now further enlighten me and show me how the opposite is true and PvP servers have no PvE content - that means no quests unrelated to direct PvP, no racials and skills not completely as useful in PvP as they are in PvE, no dungeons, no raids, no strictly PvE equipment and so on. Show me people in PvP servers who leveled from 1 to the maximum level doing nothing but PvP. Go a stretch further and show me how when you attack a city, the guards just stand there watching, since they are PvE content.

For the coup the grace, show me how RP servers have no combat at all, it's all dealt with in emotes, be it PvE or PvP.

I'll be eagerly waiting.

[froz3n96]

Mark is absolutely right.By all means that will motivate the players in the server and encourage them to commit to world pvp.It will also make YOU look good.YOU=admins.With all due respect-think this over.What you will be doing is a favor to all players.You say guards are stronk because you want to prevent small groups entering enemy city.Small groups cause big deff groups to form,big deff groups cause big attack groups to form.
At the end of the day-it's just a favor and motivation to the players of Ragnaros.

[Shred92]

I don't play on Ragnaros. That said:

1. They agreed they did the change on purpose.
2. They said the change was motivated by the former administration.
3. They said it would be reversed.
4. That, obviously, did not happen.

(Just so you guys know.)

[Enre]

We dealt with stormwind guards for about 10 months now, and never complained (we complained to each other of course, but never made whining posts demanding nerfs)
You tried doing what we do now, and after a couple of days you decide that you can't handle it and needs admins help? hahahahhahahahah
Smourne doesn't solve all your problems anymore eh?

[Markux]

And? That's it? Should I pretend that server flag means more than simply that PvP isn't limited by personal flagging?
Sure, I'll play along.

Show me how in PvE servers there's no PvP content - that's what, arenas, Battleground, duels and random attacks? Not a whole lot, but that should just make it easier for PvE servers to not have them, right?

Now further enlighten me and show me how the opposite is true and PvP servers have no PvE content - that means no quests unrelated to direct PvP, no racials and skills not completely as useful in PvP as they are in PvE, no dungeons, no raids, no strictly PvE equipment and so on. Show me people in PvP servers who leveled from 1 to the maximum level doing nothing but PvP. Go a stretch further and show me how when you attack a city, the guards just stand there watching, since they are PvE content.

For the coup the grace, show me how RP servers have no combat at all, it's all dealt with in emotes, be it PvE or PvP.

I'll be eagerly waiting.

Apologies for the late reply, I just got home.

In no context did I imply that PvP, PvE and RP do not coexist - they do. I'm not debating that so I'd appreciate it if you didn't put words in my mouth and furthermore it would be nice if you didn't misinterpret what my prior reply stated.

Nor did I imply that guards should be sitting ducks. Do you even read what I write? I said that their damage should be reduced, that is IT. They should still be there to put you in combat with their reduced damage and trigger warnings. There's also an RP related argument as to why they should do less damage to you - a lot of people here are BiS, Azeroth's champions as QUESTS and RAIDS do so often state (not that I care that much about RP, personally).

Furthermore, the way you described PvP is as if it is an afterthought - a consequence of a game made exclusively for PvE and while that may have been the case in the past PvP is a major component of this server TODAY and it's one of the main reasons I enjoy playing on this server. Personally I am not one who enjoys raiding 5 year old content week in and week out but I like Wrath of the Lich King PvP. Nothing against PvE - it's fun but just not my thing.

Also, if PvP is not that important to you why are you commenting on a PvP related topic? I don't get it.

If PvP is a small part of the game then why are there factions, BGs, Arenas and Wintergra- oh wait.

You talk about "pure PvP" content... any ETA on when Wintergrasp will be working or should I just queue BGs all day until the seas dry up as a result of global warming?

[Obnoxious]

Also, if PvP is not that important to you why are you commenting on a PvP related topic? I don't get it.

If PvP is a small part of the game then why are there factions, BGs, Arenas and Wintergra- oh wait.

You talk about "pure PvP" content... any ETA on when Wintergrasp will be working or should I just queue BGs all day until the seas dry up as a result of global warming?

You implied that the fact there's a "PVP" near Ragnaros' name means what you quoted was wrong. A server being PvP only means people don't have a choice regarding joining PvP or not, nothing more, nothing less. The game remains a PvE one.

Better to kill them when they're young. As Shred said, this was an intentional tweak. It might be reverted, I don't know, but Staff is aware of the small, yet existing amount of players who complain about that. If it gets reverted, it won't be because that small number of people complained about it again. I personally wouldn't hope for any change before Lordaeron is released and, at some point after, the new core is used on the other Wrath of the Lich King servers.

Whether you like it or not, PvP is a small part of the game, which is blatant in how little content exists that is strictly PvP. It's a PvE world, where you can PvP, not the other way around.

I'm not a Developer, so I don't give ETA for content, unless it's just repeating a Developer. Either way, it will be working on Lordaeron, so you can consider "at some point after its release on Lordaeron" as a make-do ETA.

[Markux]

You implied that the fact there's a "PVP" near Ragnaros' name means what you quoted was wrong. A server being PvP only means people don't have a choice regarding joining PvP or not, nothing more, nothing less. The game remains a PvE one.

Better to kill them when they're young. As Shred said, this was an intentional tweak. It might be reverted, I don't know, but Staff is aware of the small, yet existing amount of players who complain about that. If it gets reverted, it won't be because that small number of people complained about it again. I personally wouldn't hope for any change before Lordaeron is released and, at some point after, the new core is used on the other Wrath of the Lich King servers.

Whether you like it or not, PvP is a small part of the game, which is blatant in how little content exists that is strictly PvP. It's a PvE world, where you can PvP, not the other way around.

I'm not a Developer, so I don't give ETA for content, unless it's just repeating a Developer. Either way, it will be working on Lordaeron, so you can consider "at some point after its release on Lordaeron" as a make-do ETA.

The reason so much PvE content exists is because people need to level and gear. It requires this amount of content to make it enjoyable because boss and mob mechanics do not change dynamically. You don't level up in PvP so there are not PvP levelling zones because YES, as you said, this was initially a PvE centric game. Right, the cinematics are about the story. PvP can't make lore because it is player created and player controlled so you can't excite the more casual players as much about it. PvP has no dragons and lich kings because players are not that.

Almost every zone in Azeroth allows for PvP evidenced by the fact that who you can attack varies depending on whether or not the area is Horde controlled, Contested or Alliance controlled. Furthermore, you need variety in PvE zones because you can't change NPCs and quests dynamically in the way the players change how they play in a PvP scenario which means they have to create more zones and NPCs. In PvP, the variety is in the player, not the zone because in PvP you change how you play depending on the situation. In PvE you are applying a fixed tactic to every boss which means you need more bosses to make it interesting.

PvP is not objectively small. It is dependent on the players and tbh right now it's growing and my suggestion would make it even bigger.

You can't judge how big/small PvP is when you're AFKing in Dalaran.

[Budnub]

pvp is like a milk farm, with cows and goats

[Shootinveins]

Hehe this thread is funny. I don't get what's wrong with guards hitting 8-10k's , what's wrong with giving small group of people or solo individuals a chance to wipe few members of premade group if they play smartly around the npc, nobody is making you chase the people into the city, nobody is making you to run into the guards alone. Few people in the thread already responded that if you play smart or atleast not play absolutelly carelessly you won't be having any problem dealing with guards. Since you are PvPer and you are so dynamic and good at adapting to changing environment go and adapt to guards dealing more damage. And please don't respond with something like oh but it will promote more pvp and promote players to fight back instead of npcs fighting for them: First of all, your group shouldn't wipe to guards alone if there are no players around making use of them (cmon man im not being elitist but seriously it shouldn't happen) . Secondly, if it's a big raid the guards will die in few secs so it barelly has any impact on big raids/aware small groups that pay attention to environment and don't have members chasing some random dude until he gets ganked or kills him. And for gods sake it's an npc that hits harder than it should, if you can't overcome 15-20k hp guards hitting you hard then don't portray yourself as somebody who knows something/anything about PvP. Nothing personal really, but this thread is ridiculous funny.

[Markux]

Hehe this thread is funny. I don't get what's wrong with guards hitting 8-10k's , what's wrong with giving small group of people or solo individuals a chance to wipe few members of premade group if they play smartly around the npc, nobody is making you chase the people into the city, nobody is making you to run into the guards alone. Few people in the thread already responded that if you play smart or atleast not play absolutelly carelessly you won't be having any problem dealing with guards. Since you are PvPer and you are so dynamic and good at adapting to changing environment go and adapt to guards dealing more damage. And please don't respond with something like oh but it will promote more pvp and promote players to fight back instead of npcs fighting for them: First of all, your group shouldn't wipe to guards alone if there are no players around making use of them (cmon man im not being elitist but seriously it shouldn't happen) . Secondly, if it's a big raid the guards will die in few secs so it barelly has any impact on big raids/aware small groups that pay attention to environment and don't have members chasing some random dude until he gets ganked or kills him. And for gods sake it's an npc that hits harder than it should, if you can't overcome 15-20k hp guards hitting you hard then don't portray yourself as somebody who knows something/anything about PvP. Nothing personal really, but this thread is ridiculous funny.

I never take what you say seriously so even if I wanted to I can't take it personally because I know you bash on everything and everyone for no genuine reason (I'm not the only one who thinks this).

[Warcrimes]

Guards should be even more OP simply because it puts more challgence into SW/ORGRIMMAR raids. I've been reading silly posts by players commenting that there should be no guards at all. Dafuq. Rushing into the MAIN city of opposite faction shouldn't be something you take just like ''let's go yo'', it should be made way harder. AND THAT'S the right thing which will make your world pvp even better, guards/players PVE/PVP... THE WORLD ITSELF.

I'd also like to point of certain things that appeared to my attention, don't bash markux, simply cause you hate him. I appreciate what is he trying to do but apparently he's wrong on this one.

People do mistakes, and by them we learn.