Unfair towards future DK players:

[Kelthuzzad]

That depends in bgs u could make alot if u did AV or pvp during pvp weekends also 2h Weapons cost like 290 honor

I don't know how the prizes are gonna look like or when AV is gonna get released so we will see... They said two bgs are gonna be open on launch at least... That's all i know so far.

I agree with OP and believe DK's should be released before Northrend. If people find them being OP while we're playing vanilla content, release them along with BC like others have mentioned already. The argument "is not blizzlike" falls very short since the term "blizzlike" is very subjective these days. Just the fact we're using the 3.3.5 patch at the release makes the argument obsolete...

Still it would be broken to have a class that were not suppose to be apart of that expansion. It actually does not make it obsolete cause it's a progressive server... Yes we are on 3.3.5a but we are progressing through the Vanlia, BC then Wrath and then DK did not exist till Northrend sooo...

[T1LL]

Instead of being a smartass, you could directly quote it. That makes me feel like I want to give you a hard time in return.

Also, at your statements of it being unfair;
The only achievement a DK may lose out on is realm first level 80.
Professions still require Northrend materials, and there is always realm first level 80 Death Knight to be had. You'll have plenty time to farm materials with an alternate character which you can feed the Death Knight upon its availability. And why should Death Knights be allowed to participate in pve and pvp content when the max level is 60 or 70 when it was never that way on retail? Death Knights don't even have an honor or tier gear set which they can obtain until Northrend.

Didnt mean it offensive, had to write something (10 characters) to be able to post. And its always easier to quote rather than describing where it is.

In the end, this is a Wotlk Server as most of the team stated, so why would a DK have to wait 2 months to play on a Wotlk Server.

[Obnoxious]

I'll just point out that not having Death Knights at release is a design feature, i.e., same case as RDF.
While the "two months after release" I could see not being set in stone (because I can see it taking longer for the content where Death Knights were released to be reached), I don't see it being considered before the point where they came out, and for sure not unlocked at launch.
Deciding to play as a Death Knight remains, at the end of the day, a personal choice. They were released when the game turned to Wrath of the Lich King, and players already had equipment and all. People didn't complain it was "unfair" to start a brand new character and get out of its starting zone at level 58 with awesome gear. If anything it was the other people who considered it unfair that a brand new character had such a boost, not the other way around.

[T1LL]

Still it would be broken to have a class that were not suppose to be apart of that expansion. It actually does not make it obsolete cause it's a progressive server... Yes we are on 3.3.5a but we are progressing through the Vanlia, BC then Wrath and then DK did not exist till Northrend sooo...

And we are progressing through Vanila and BC only so the staff has more time to fix Northrend :D So why would you stop somebody from playing DK from day 1 or x?

[Kelthuzzad]

And we are progressing through Vanila and BC only so the staff has more time to fix Northrend :D So why would you stop somebody from playing DK from day 1 or x?

I don't see the argument here... I already stated my opinion about it.. Read what Obnoxious said instead because we think alike.

[Radvo]

And we are progressing through Vanila and BC only so the staff has more time to fix Northrend :D So why would you stop somebody from playing DK from day 1 or x?

False. We are progressing through Vanilla and BC because Kaer wants so. It's a design feature, not a delay.

You are also assuming that grinding your gear through battlegrounds and Molten Core is as easy as doing some 30 quests. How hard is it to penetrate that thick skull. DK's have a humongous, unfair advantage, and releasing them day 1 would be a huge mistake.

Whatever, continuing the argument would be pointless, as it's been already stated they won't come out sooner than they should.

[T1LL]

I'll just point out that not having Death Knights at release is a design feature, i.e., same case as RDF.
While the "two months after release" I could see not being set in stone (because I can see it taking longer for the content where Death Knights were released to be reached), I don't see it being considered before the point where they came out, and for sure not unlocked at launch.
Deciding to play as a Death Knight remains, at the end of the day, a personal choice. They were released when the game turned to Wrath of the Lich King, and players already had equipment and all. People didn't complain it was "unfair" to start a brand new character and get out of its starting zone at level 58 with awesome gear. If anything it was the other people who considered it unfair that a brand new character had such a boost, not the other way around.

Sou you are coming along with the "blizzlike" story, but you have no problems with non blizzlike adjustments to Naxxramas if i get you right? Why would you make people which want to play a class wait for 2 months to do so if they can do it earlier?

Why dont we just wait 2 more months on the server and then release everything when its ready, so everyone has the same chance to get to 80 first? Because people dont want to wait and its not okey. But if you get DKs to wait for 2 months, its okey!?

Lets say you are all right with the gear, why done make DK playable after BC release? There would be no "unfair gear advantage" then.

And after that Naxxramas changes nobody has to come up with the blizzlike story.

[Kelthuzzad]

Sou you are coming along with the "blizzlike" story, but you have no problems with non blizzlike adjustments to Naxxramas if i get you right? Why would you make people which want to play a class wait for 2 months to do so if they can do it earlier?

Why dont we just wait 2 more months on the server and then release everything when its ready, so everyone has the same chance to get to 80 first? Because people dont want to wait and its not okey. But if you get DKs to wait for 2 months, its okey!?

To be honest he has already explained the term blizzlike in the PTR thread for you before which i think you should go back and re-read... Also they have not given a announcement if they are gonna buff Naxx or not so you can calm down. My hope is that their gonna buff it but that's not apart of this topic. We have given you the reasons to enabling DKS before Wrath so you kinda know WHY already. Lol release in 2 more months? Haha you are crazy! Screw that! You simply have to roll another class then till DK is out simple.

[Obnoxious]

No, I'm not "coming along with the Blizz-like." In fact, if we still had signatures showing, I'd have put it there by now to drop the "Blizz-like" argument, because people obviously can't understand that the "-like" part is decided by the Administration, not something to be wielded by players when they want something.

And yes, Death Knights waiting until the content in which they belong is released is perfectly okay, not to mention making perfect sense when we are going through content, not starting with everything Wrath of the Lich King available at launch.

[Radvo]

It's not a retail clone. It's a warmane realm. It's not blizzlike, it's however Kaer wants it to be.

It's been stated many times, it won't be done as the community wants, it's going to be made how the team wants it. If you don't like it, you can always play on the other realms/servers.

[Aiovous]

I haven't been actively reading through all the minor details of Lordaeron so forgive me if there's any misinformation in my post here, but isn't the reason for us having these two months of expansion progression before the WotLK content is released because it allows the developers to finish scripting all the missing content for Northrend etc? I mean, technically they could've just decided not to release Lordaeron at all until they're completely finished with their work, so the fact that they're giving us these two months of 'legacy gameplay' I think should be considered as a gift already rather than the actual release of the realm.

My point being that the Death Knight groupies not being able to grind their toons for achievements and such - which I completely understand the concern of as I'm a bit of an achievement whore myself - shouldn't be considered as an exclusion and/or neglection since they just as easily could've let neither of us play before the full release of Northrend. Letting us experience this form of prelude prior to the release of WotLK is already a step out of being blizzlike, letting people play DKs in this environment would be adding to that concept which we all seem to have this fanatic approach towards the server being 'blizzlike' except for when it benefits us.

I do however agree with the potential benefit of releasing DKs perhaps through the second month of TBC content, considering we're already making major exceptions to the realm that is otherwise, after all, a Wrath of the Lich King realm - not a Vanilla and/or TBC realm.

Those are just my two cents.
And also, yeah, this:

Also, at your statements of it being unfair;
The only achievement a DK may lose out on is realm first level 80.
Professions still require Northrend materials, and there is always realm first level 80 Death Knight to be had. You'll have plenty time to farm materials with an alternate character which you can feed the Death Knight upon its availability. And why should Death Knights be allowed to participate in pve and pvp content when the max level is 60 or 70 when it was never that way on retail? Death Knights don't even have an honor or tier gear set which they can obtain until Northrend.

I also thought I'd add to the fact that Achievements weren't actually a thing in WoW until WotLK was released, meaning that there are no official realm first achievements to be had outside of Northrend: http://wow.gamepedia.com/Achievement

Yes, people will still be the 'first on the realm' to achieve something, but they won't be getting any achievements for it, only the pride through word of mouth if that makes sense. So yeah, as Mercy said, the only official realm first achievement that DKs will be missing out on is http://cata.openwow.com/achievement=457, but then again it was the same case on retail when WotLK first launched.

[Vicente810]

As far as I know, DKs aren't being limited in the way you've said. Unless another staff member posted about this, I have no idea where you got the impression this was going to be the case.

Here is the post

Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor release at launch
Outland release 1 month after launch
Northrend release 2 months after launch
Death Knight release 2 months after launch

[T1LL]

Shame on me for trying to ask for DKs to have the equal chance of getting achievments and stuff at the same time like 9 other classes.

I see way 2 much rejection here, and i dont get it why. If DKs are gonna get released after 2 weeks of Classic i dont see anyone being harmed. The only discussable reason would be the gear, but neither that is gonna harm anybody, and even if, just release them when BC opens.

If all classes are equally played, 10% of the population is not gonna be able to play their favourite class, the DK, for 2 months. Why wouldnt you try and help them out and make them happy by releasing it earlier, as this is a 3.3.5a server (design feature) and it should be available anyway. I think its unfair, but luckily im not a DK player, just speaking out my mind on this matter.

I think i said enough about it, got nothing to add in this storm of rejection. Good luck DKs, dunno if i did you a favour :P

Atleast i gave a few people something to think about :D

[Kelthuzzad]

Shame on me for trying to ask for DKs to have the equal chance of getting achievments and stuff at the same time like 9 other classes.

I see way 2 much rejection here, and i dont get it why. If DKs are gonna get released after 2 weeks of Classic i dont see anyone being harmed. The only discussable reason would be the gear, but neither that is gonna harm anybody, and even if, just release them when BC opens.

If all classes are equally played, 10% of the population is not gonna be able to play their favourite class, the DK, for 2 months. Why wouldnt you try and help them out and make them happy by releasing it earlier, as this is a 3.3.5a server (design feature) and it should be available anyway. I think its unfair, but luckily im not a DK player, just speaking out my mind on this matter.

I think i said enough about it, got nothing to add in this storm of rejection. Good luck DKs, dunno if i did you a favour :P

Atleast i gave a few people something to think about :D

It would create unbalance in PVP and PVE cause you'd take the death knight whos in full blues instead of the other classes.... That's why... People would not have time to get gear in 2 weeks time... They already decided how it's gonna be shaped so i don't think it's much to think about when the staff has their mindset already set on what the realm is going to be and what features are gonna be there at which time frame :)

[Nazara]

Shame on me for trying to ask for DKs to have the equal chance of getting achievments and stuff at the same time like 9 other classes.

I see way 2 much rejection here, and i dont get it why. If DKs are gonna get released after 2 weeks of Classic i dont see anyone being harmed. The only discussable reason would be the gear, but neither that is gonna harm anybody, and even if, just release them when BC opens.

If all classes are equally played, 10% of the population is not gonna be able to play their favourite class, the DK, for 2 months. Why wouldnt you try and help them out and make them happy by releasing it earlier, as this is a 3.3.5a server (design feature) and it should be available anyway. I think its unfair, but luckily im not a DK player, just speaking out my mind on this matter.

I think i said enough about it, got nothing to add in this storm of rejection. Good luck DKs, dunno if i did you a favour :P

Atleast i gave a few people something to think about :D

well just deal with it... demon hunters in legion arent full geared after so much time (10 years!) boohoo who cares they just now released give me full legenderies, thats what i see here. warmane decided they want DKs to be released as they were released in wotlk and thats how it will be.
see it as DK dont exist yet in wotlk and OH YEAH they are now in beta and just 2 months for release - how is the for a point of view?