WoTLK Point Shop and Activity Rank

[sethanew4]

Right , like someone would create 5 accounts, get 1000 achivement points on all 5 characters, in order to spend some weeks/monts collecting points, to get some mount or whatever weapon. Would it make anyone happy ? fullfilled ? Would anyone go "aaawwww yesss ! i finnaly got that 120DPS weapon i was hoping for , and it only took 5 characters and 2 months of collecting points ! ha ! i screwed Warmane big time on this, better keep this exploit to myself".

Incorrect. Had I made my three alts on three different accounts I would've had 2000+ achiev pts on each one of them. And this is just by doing what I usually do and have done on my toons (level-up, gear up, go raiding or pvpving), not achiev farming. The first 1000 achiev pts is no big deal at all. I even have 1000+ achiev points on alts that have only been leveled-up and are still completely naked, I didn't have to do anything special on them. Also you won't be getting a 120DPS weapon, you will be getting 5 120DPS weapons (or whatever) in the time that it takes for you to get just 1 right now.

Don't forget to add the fact points aren't transferable between accounts.

There is no need to transfer points between accounts. Apparently I wasn't clear enough. I'll explain again. Right now you earn 0.8 points total for 5 chars on 1 account everyday, which you then need to divide between those 5 chars (comes to 0.16 points per char). With multiple accounts you get 0.8 points per char every day on each account. Which obviously means that every char gets gear faster. So with just one account it takes you 5 months to get 1 trinket each on all 5 chars but with 5 different accounts it takes just 1 month to get 1 trinket each on all 5 chars. This is very basic math.

You people are flawed at the very concept of your complains. You're going from the assumption that getting the maximum reward is a "right" every player has and that we're "taking it away." These points are a free reward we are giving for people to get items for free. The base people are expected to get is the 0.5, not 1.2. If you want that 1.2 you are going to have to go play game content to get more achievements more than likely, and there's nothing wrong with that. Stop assuming 1.2 is what you "should get."

No...We are under the assumption that the points are a reward for activity (can't repeat how many times this has been stated by the staff) and are a direct effort towards benefiting the player community and in return making the server more popular. The Staff should have explained it better that the more points are to promote achiev farming (achiev farming that is not based on primary player base activities in the game i.e. pvp and pve, but is instead based on a niche activity such as pure achievement farming) and not activity. Had the older instances been working, had most of the bgs/arenas and hence pvp achievements been working your argument would have been valid. Nobody is complaining about making an effort to get those extra points, we are explaining that the effort asked for is misplaced. Had the requirements been to have completed x,y,z instances/arenas/bgs on 1,2,3 difficulty abc many times most of us would have had no reason to object. But asking players to stop raiding and pvping to pursue killing turkeys, jumping off buildings and pursuing only achiev hoarding based farming (that too only to find them bugged) is a bit odd.

I saw his post, my reply was aimed at his post as well.
It's perfectly possible to get the 1.2 reward, but depending on your play style it will take some effort. It's up to you whether you want to put up that effort for the maximum reward or stick to a lower one. There's no need at all to add new ways to get points counting when it's not impossible to get the necessary for the best result, it just takes unique effort, instead of repeated effort over many characters doing the same thing.

Then, apart from the explanation given above on misplaced effort, the narrative behind the whole system revamp has been ill-explained from the start. The player community has been under the impression that the new point system was to be based on player activity not unique effort pursuing a niche activity such as 'achievement farming not based on pve or pvp', that too when its overwhelmingly bugged.

Of course repeated effort is effort. It's just not effort we are considering valid for the purpose of increasing the free reward you can get. It's really just as simple as that: we are offering a way for you to get free rewards from playing, and we dictate what's valid and what isn't. Unless we tried to limit what's valid to something impossible, this all gets down to people not liking the way we want to distribute free stuff. Doesn't that sounds odd to you?

The moment you start "dictating" is the moment this thread becomes redundant and hence should be closed for good. Furthermore, what really is odd is asking for feedback, claiming to be more open to it (the way molten once was in a bygone era) and then disregarding it without presenting any feedback. Like every other step, this step by warmane must also have a reason and I'm under the assumption that it's based on community and/or gameplay improvement in the wramane servers instead of just feeling benevolent and giving away free stuff (in which case there wouldn't have been any requirements at all, as is the case with holiday and anniversary gifts). If it is the former then community feedback is your number one resource, if the latter then I see no need for me to further comment on this topic, which might turn out moot given the running risk of having this post deleted and my account banned.

ps: We post here to give feedback and in the event of being wrong to receive feedback as to why. No one is demanding anything.

[Obnoxious]

There is no need to transfer points between accounts. Apparently I wasn't clear enough. I'll explain again. Right now you earn 0.8 points total for 5 chars on 1 account everyday, which you then need to divide between those 5 chars (comes to 0.16 points per char). With multiple accounts you get 0.8 points per char every day on each account. Which obviously means that every char gets gear faster. So with just one account it takes you 5 months to get 1 trinket each on all 5 chars but with 5 different accounts it takes just 1 month to get 1 trinket each on all 5 chars. This is very basic math.

I already addressed that: go for it.

No...We are under the assumption that the points are a reward for activity (can't repeat how many times this has been stated by the staff) and are a direct effort towards benefiting the player community and in return making the server more popular. The Staff should have explained it better that the more points are to promote achiev farming (achiev farming that is not based on primary player base activities in the game i.e. pvp and pve, but is instead based on a niche activity such as pure achievement farming) and not activity. Had the older instances been working, had most of the bgs/arenas and hence pvp achievements been working your argument would have been valid. Nobody is complaining about making an effort to get those extra points, we are explaining that the effort asked for is misplaced. Had the requirements been to have completed x,y,z instances/arenas/bgs on 1,2,3 difficulty abc many times most of us would have had no reason to object. But asking players to stop raiding and pvping to pursue killing turkeys, jumping off buildings and pursuing only achiev hoarding based farming (that too only to find them bugged) is a bit odd.

Then, apart from the explanation given above on misplaced effort, the narrative behind the whole system revamp has been ill-explained from the start. The player community has been under the impression that the new point system was to be based on player activity not unique effort pursuing a niche activity such as 'achievement farming not based on pve or pvp', that too when its overwhelmingly bugged.

The fact you disagree with the activity we picked doesn't makes our choice any less of a sign to show activity.

The moment you start "dictating" is the moment this thread becomes redundant and hence should be closed for good. Furthermore, what really is odd is asking for feedback, claiming to be more open to it (the way molten once was in a bygone era) and then disregarding it without presenting any feedback. Like every other step, this step by warmane must also have a reason and I'm under the assumption that it's based on community and/or gameplay improvement in the wramane servers instead of just feeling benevolent and giving away free stuff (in which case there wouldn't have been any requirements at all, as is the case with holiday and anniversary gifts). If it is the former then community feedback is your number one resource, if the latter then I see no need for me to further comment on this topic, which might turn out moot given the running risk of having this post deleted and my account banned.

ps: We post here to give feedback and in the event of being wrong to receive feedback as to why. No one is demanding anything.

Feedback is an opinion. Being open to feedback simply means listening to, not accepting it all. The reason for the choice has already been stated and repeated, by me and by players. The fact is you just disagree with it and don't want to listen to it. The thread doesn't needs closing, but when your arguments get down to "I don't want to do what you're requiring of me to earn a reward, so change it," don't expect that to be considered much of a feedback.

[sethanew4]

The fact you disagree with the activity we picked doesn't makes our choice any less of a sign to show activity.

Except that it leaves out 99% of the activities that actually make up the game and the activities for which the game is played for.

I already addressed that: go for it.

Feedback is an opinion. Being open to feedback simply means listening to, not accepting it all. The reason for the choice has already been stated and repeated, by me and by players. The fact is you just disagree with it and don't want to listen to it. The thread doesn't needs closing, but when your arguments get down to "I don't want to do what you're requiring of me to earn a reward, so change it," don't expect that to be considered much of a feedback.

It's funny how you are projecting onto others. The actual fact is that you don't want to be questioned (which humorously no one was actually doing) but instead want us to bow for all the benevolence that you have bestowed upon us undeserved moochers playing on your servers. There have been countless arguments presented by countless players as to what their objections/suggestions are, only to be responded with "go for it", posts implying that players are being ungrateful and posts out-rightly implying that you don't care. I don't care if you change anything or not, frankly speaking I don't care for the points either. Not only do I not need them for gear but I wouldn't spend them on gear anyway, like I never did with all the coins that I have had (you can go check that btw). But I will present my argument and defend it until proven wrong, which you haven't despite my numerous requests for you to show me (which btw what being open to feedback actually is). "I don't want to do what you're requiring of me to earn a reward, so change it," has become the explanation for rejecting anything and everything that the community says without ever offering a counter-argument. I would ask again for you to present them or for you to quote those posts but as you have made it amply apparent, it would be futile again. So I bid you adieu.

[Dutywar]

Incorrect. Had I made my three alts on three different accounts I would've had 2000+ achiev pts on each one of them. And this is just by doing what I usually do and have done on my toons (level-up, gear up, go raiding or pvpving), not achiev farming. The first 1000 achiev pts is no big deal at all. I even have 1000+ achiev points on alts that have only been leveled-up and are still completely naked, I didn't have to do anything special on them. Also you won't be getting a 120DPS weapon, you will be getting 5 120DPS weapons (or whatever) in the time that it takes for you to get just 1 right now.




There is no need to transfer points between accounts. Apparently I wasn't clear enough. I'll explain again. Right now you earn 0.8 points total for 5 chars on 1 account everyday, which you then need to divide between those 5 chars (comes to 0.16 points per char). With multiple accounts you get 0.8 points per char every day on each account. Which obviously means that every char gets gear faster. So with just one account it takes you 5 months to get 1 trinket each on all 5 chars but with 5 different accounts it takes just 1 month to get 1 trinket each on all 5 chars. This is very basic math.



No...We are under the assumption that the points are a reward for activity (can't repeat how many times this has been stated by the staff) and are a direct effort towards benefiting the player community and in return making the server more popular. The Staff should have explained it better that the more points are to promote achiev farming (achiev farming that is not based on primary player base activities in the game i.e. pvp and pve, but is instead based on a niche activity such as pure achievement farming) and not activity. Had the older instances been working, had most of the bgs/arenas and hence pvp achievements been working your argument would have been valid. Nobody is complaining about making an effort to get those extra points, we are explaining that the effort asked for is misplaced. Had the requirements been to have completed x,y,z instances/arenas/bgs on 1,2,3 difficulty abc many times most of us would have had no reason to object. But asking players to stop raiding and pvping to pursue killing turkeys, jumping off buildings and pursuing only achiev hoarding based farming (that too only to find them bugged) is a bit odd.



Then, apart from the explanation given above on misplaced effort, the narrative behind the whole system revamp has been ill-explained from the start. The player community has been under the impression that the new point system was to be based on player activity not unique effort pursuing a niche activity such as 'achievement farming not based on pve or pvp', that too when its overwhelmingly bugged.



The moment you start "dictating" is the moment this thread becomes redundant and hence should be closed for good. Furthermore, what really is odd is asking for feedback, claiming to be more open to it (the way molten once was in a bygone era) and then disregarding it without presenting any feedback. Like every other step, this step by warmane must also have a reason and I'm under the assumption that it's based on community and/or gameplay improvement in the wramane servers instead of just feeling benevolent and giving away free stuff (in which case there wouldn't have been any requirements at all, as is the case with holiday and anniversary gifts). If it is the former then community feedback is your number one resource, if the latter then I see no need for me to further comment on this topic, which might turn out moot given the running risk of having this post deleted and my account banned.

ps: We post here to give feedback and in the event of being wrong to receive feedback as to why. No one is demanding anything.

agree with every word and every letter!

[Obnoxious]

Except that it leaves out 99% of the activities that actually make up the game and the activities for which the game is played for.

I'm going to assume you don't know how percentages work. Nor understand that achievements are only awarded for game activities. I'm sure people wouldn't mind out-of-game achievements for "most energetic drinks drunk" and the like, but so far they all are strictly for in-game activities.

It's funny how you are projecting onto others. The actual fact is that you don't want to be questioned (which humorously no one was actually doing) but instead want us to bow for all the benevolence that you have bestowed upon us undeserved moochers playing on your servers. There have been countless arguments presented by countless players as to what their objections/suggestions are, only to be responded with "go for it", posts implying that players are being ungrateful and posts out-rightly implying that you don't care. I don't care if you change anything or not, frankly speaking I don't care for the points either. Not only do I not need them for gear but I wouldn't spend them on gear anyway, like I never did with all the coins that I have had (you can go check that btw). But I will present my argument and defend it until proven wrong, which you haven't despite my numerous requests for you to show me (which btw what being open to feedback actually is). "I don't want to do what you're requiring of me to earn a reward, so change it," has become the explanation for rejecting anything and everything that the community says without ever offering a counter-argument. I would ask again for you to present them or for you to quote those posts but as you have made it amply apparent, it would be futile again. So I bid you adieu.

Twelve pages. That would make 120 posts or less, not all of them being objections or suggestions, plus many just being people repeatedly saying the same thing. Seems rather far from "countless" players, much less "countless" arguments. When you look at them, and they are all about "give me points in the way I want to get them," it gets really easy to count those countless arguments too - easier than doing percentages, incidentally. You also completely misjudge your position when you're offering your so-called feedback. There's nothing for the Administration to "prove you wrong" about. You're the one trying - and failing - to prove that the system that was implemented doesn't works and needs to be changed. So far all the "cons" you list aren't "cons" at all, except for people who, again, want to dictate how they should get the free points.

No argument so far has shown that it's somehow impossible to get to the 1.2 points, which would be the only thing I'd actually consider valid. Every single argument has only been about how we are "forcing" people to do something they want. When exactly did people start getting "charged" points to play in any of our servers?

[Diemtee]

So, let's say there's 1 account, with 1 character, with let's say 100 days played time with 5k achievement points.
There's another account, with 5 characters, with each 20 days played time, with 1k achiev points each.

So what you're saying this whole time is basically that the second account ain't worth crap, even though the time spent and the total number of achievs points are the same. And that's the "problem" seth is talking about. You have deemed that second account unworthy. That's how your system works. And yes, I know it's your system, your rules but think about it a bit and tell me honestly that it's fair.

[Obnoxious]

So, let's say there's 1 account, with 1 character, with let's say 100 days played time with 5k achievement points.
There's another account, with 5 characters, with each 20 days played time, with 1k achiev points each.

So what you're saying this whole time is basically that the second account ain't worth crap, even though the time spent and the total number of achievs points are the same. And that's the "problem" seth is talking about. You have deemed that second account unworthy. That's how your system works. And yes, I know it's your system, your rules but think about it a bit and tell me honestly that it's fair.

No one is saying the second "ain't worth crap." It's not the same kind or amount of dedication, though. Not to mention that the choice of splitting your effort across five characters was completely yours. If you have 1000 achievement points on those characters and they aren't simply repeated achievements, i.e., you did just the same stuff without exploring and experiencing the game our Developers work their asses off to gradually get as close to retail as they can, they will count as 5000 points anyways. If that's not the case, you didn't do anything new, just have five characters that went the same way. I honestly see no hint whatsoever of unfairness in us rewarding more people that explore and enjoy more of the fruits of our labor. If you don't want to, you'll just get less points.

[callum90]

How about feats of strength? They count? How much then?

[Randomx932f]

How about feats of strength? They count? How much then?

If they don't give achievement points they don't count.

[Khavatari]

So many pages of drama and still nothing clear lol. So I got full acc with 10 chars, way over 5k achievs, and explain me why im not getting maximum amount of points? (I never banned etc.)

[acousticscars]

Same. I've 3 80s and together they've more than 5000 achievement points, while I only get +0.5 for good standing account and +0.4 because it seems I've more then 2200 points.
So instead of 0.5+0.7 I only get 0.5+0.4.

And considering this list is a waste of points:

Agent rank = 30 points in 60 days
Emissary rank = 30 points in 50 days
Envoy rank = 30 points in 38 days --> my actual rank
Ambassador = 30 points in 30 days
Legate = 30 points in 25 days --> what I should have

[acousticscars]

Same. I've 3 80s and together they've more than 5000 achievement points, while I only get +0.5 for good standing account and +0.4 because it seems I've more than 2200 points.
So instead of 0.5+0.7 I only get 0.5+0.4.

And considering this list is a waste of points:

Agent rank = 30 points in 60 days
Emissary rank = 30 points in 50 days
Envoy rank = 30 points in 38 days --> my actual rank
Ambassador = 30 points in 30 days
Legate = 30 points in 25 days --> what I should have

[callum90]

lol. it's mentioned before. the achievement must be UNIQUE which mean no repeat achievement unlock. for example, you can have 5 lvl 80 toons but the achievement 10-80 only count once.

[whooper]

c'mon... u get items for just click a button in website! its literatly nothing, u receive items for free.. stop whine!

[untungaja]

I think 251 item lvl already good for vote point items. 264+ items are too much... The reason I did raid cause I wanna have pve gears for pvp.