Graphic Card ?

[Beefydk]

Why would you suggest liquid cooling to someone on budget? It's a terrible choice value-wise.

Not sure if you're trolling or not, but a liquid cooler isn't even exspensive, it's like $40-$100 for a good CPU liquid cooler. I got a Corsair H60i high performance liquid cooler for like $60 CAD and it keeps my CPU around 2 degrees celsius on idle and 20-40 under load. With air cooling, it would be running at about 40-90 degrees celsius, which is extremely unhealthy for the computer and would make my room very hot.

[buhehe]

Not sure if you're trolling or not, but a liquid cooler isn't even exspensive, it's like $40-$100 for a good CPU liquid cooler.

I obviously assumed you were talking about custom liquid cooling, not AIO closed loop. I don't think low end water cooling is worth it.

I got a Corsair H60i high performance liquid cooler for like $60 CAD and it keeps my CPU around 2 degrees celsius on idle and 20-40 under load. With air cooling, it would be running at about 40-90 degrees celsius, which is extremely unhealthy for the computer and would make my room very hot.

2 degrees? Cool story brah. It's clearly ambient temperature DELTA.
Then you mention air coolers at 40-90 (non-DELTA). Comparing apples to oranges.
Also, you should compare H60 with air coolers at the same price range, which you didn't do.

H60 is a low end AIO cooler, I think the cheapest Corsair AIOs after the H55.
It performs somewhere between mid and high-end air coolers such as Noctua NH-D14/15, Dark Rock Pro 3 and the like.

Compared to similarly priced air coolers, these AIOs are:
- More expensive
- Noisier
- Performing similarly
- It can leak (although the chance is very, very small)
- The pump can be noisy (several complaints about buzzing pumps online, I had one myself)

The advantages are:
- It looks nice
- It doesn't get in the way of RAM
- It takes little space overall, good for compact builds

In my previous PC I had a H50, I speak from experience. In my current one I opted for a Noctua NH-U12S.
According to https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/...NH-U12S/6.html it performs between H90 and H100 while being quieter than both.

Amazon UK prices now:
NH-U12S: 47£
H60: 60£
H90: 75£
H100: 93£

With air cooling, it would be running at about 40-90 degrees celsius, which is extremely unhealthy for the computer and would make my room very hot.

No.

You think that a better cooler magically makes heat VANISH?
Coolers just MOVE heat from the hardware to outside the case.
If anything, better cooling makes your room warmer, as the heat transfer process is more efficient.

I'm surprised you worked in a hardware shop and you can come up with stuff like that...
...and please, please, please, get your facts straight before you go around giving suggestions. Thanks.

[Jakkre]

Graphics cards aren't cheap, and it's the last thing you should cheap out on for a gaming PC.

May apply to other new games with high grphic requirements but not to multiboxing in WoW. In fact the graphic card is less important than Ram and CPU when it comes to multiboxing.

Multiboxing a high amount of characters requires different hardware than a gaming pc.

[buhehe]

May apply to other new games with high grphic requirements but not to multiboxing in WoW. In fact the graphic card is less important than Ram and CPU when it comes to multiboxing.

Multiboxing a high amount of characters requires different hardware than a gaming pc.

I totally agree, especially since all the WoW instances will be running at very low res / details, shifting the main load to the CPU.

[Beefydk]

May apply to other new games with high grphic requirements but not to multiboxing in WoW. In fact the graphic card is less important than Ram and CPU when it comes to multiboxing.

Multiboxing a high amount of characters requires different hardware than a gaming pc.

I know, I'm talking gaming PCs in general, which isn't really much different than multiboxing in WoW (kinda). Warmane WoW isn't supported by SLI/XF (not sure about retail), but in a modern gaming PC, then yeah SLI/XF is sometimes a good option to go with. For multiboxing in WoW, you will definately need more RAM than a regular gaming PC, and it would help to have a CPU with more cores ofcourse, but in quite a few games (not so much the newer games), they usually only use 1 or 2 CPU cores, but with multiboxing, you can use however many CPU cores you have. If you want to maintain good FPS in combat scenarios or other areas with lots of action, then yeah a nice GPU will really help with that, along with a nice CPU which he already has.

[Beefydk]

I obviously assumed you were talking about custom liquid cooling, not AIO closed loop. I don't think low end water cooling is worth it.

It's definitely worth it.

2 degrees? Cool story brah. It's clearly ambient temperature DELTA.
Then you mention air coolers at 40-90 (non-DELTA). Comparing apples to oranges.
Also, you should compare H60 with air coolers at the same price range, which you didn't do.

I'm comparing a liquid cooler to the stock cooler. I'm not here to compare liquid coolers to non-stock air coolers, that's absolutely ridiculous. That's like comparing SSD to HDD.

H60 is a low end AIO cooler, I think the cheapest Corsair AIOs after the H55.
It performs somewhere between mid and high-end air coolers such as Noctua NH-D14/15, Dark Rock Pro 3 and the like.

Once again, I'm not here to compare a $60 liquid cooler to a $130 air cooler, that is completely ridiculous, you're obviously hungry for an argument. I'm suggesting parts for the OP for a budget build, not a high-end $2000 build. There is really no reason to get a high-end liquid cooler for a Intel CPU that most likely won't be OC'd, but it's necessary to have a mid-end liquid cooler for gaming/multiboxing.

Compared to similarly priced air coolers, these AIOs are:
- More expensive
- Noisier
- Performing similarly
- It can leak (although the chance is very, very small)
- The pump can be noisy (several complaints about buzzing pumps online, I had one myself)

Well if you get a similarly priced air cooler instead of a liquid cooler, then that is just stupid.

I've never ever heard my liquid cooler make a single noise, you must have had a faulty one.

Yes they do kinda perform similarly, but a AIO liquid cooler is definitely better performing temperature-wise for the price.

Yes, they can leak, but you are also right it's very rare for that to happen, When I bought my liquid cooler while building my PC, I got "insurance" for if the liquid cooler does actually leak within 2 years, then I can send my PC to Corsair for them to confirm it and they will pay for the repairs, On the piece of paper I got the insurance with, it said they don't offer this in all countries if I remember correctly.

I don't know what you mean about your pump making noise, mine has never made a single noise, maybe because mine is closed loop?

Amazon UK prices now:
NH-U12S: 47£
H60: 60£
H90: 75£
H100: 93£

Compared to the prices in US/Canada, those are very different.
Amazon US prices:
NH-U12S: $170
H60: $60
H90: $100
H100: $250

You think that a better cooler magically makes heat VANISH?
Coolers just MOVE heat from the hardware to outside the case.
If anything, better cooling makes your room warmer, as the heat transfer process is more efficient.

I didn't say it makes it vanish, but a air cooler heatsink vs a liquid cooler "heatsink" and radiator is completely different, and obviously the liquid cooler setup is a lot better at managing the circulation of the CPU heat. And no **** it would still put the air out in your room, but it's better than a CPU air cooler just spreading it all over the tower like what most of them do. This is also completely non-comparable, because this is how most liquid coolers and most air coolers are different. I have the H60i, so my fan and radiator is engineered to more efficiently work if it's blowing the air from outside the tower to inside and at the same time, cooling the CPU, but I do have to clean the radiator more often because my cats hair clogs it.

Anyways, I'm not here to argue about coolers, I'm here to help the OP choose what graphics card he should get.

[kalvindeane]

May apply to other new games with high grphic requirements but not to multiboxing in WoW. In fact the graphic card is less important than Ram and CPU when it comes to multiboxing.

Multiboxing a high amount of characters requires different hardware than a gaming pc.

I'm not gonna bother replying to BeefyDK since he is an *****. I would like to say I concur with Jakkre that the amount of RAM and the power of your CPU are more important than the GPU for the vast majority of multiboxers. For some of us though, the GPU is still quite important. I run all my clients at 1920x1080 and two of them with max particle density, view distance and environmental detail settings.

Get the best components that you can afford really. Almost everybody starts with 5 or 10 and ends up wanting 20-30 chars eventually. :p

My rig is an i7 3770k @ stock, 16gb RAM, SSD and an Nvidia 760 GPU. When ten boxing with ISBoxer with the settings described above, it struggles in large scale PvP and on some 25man raid encounters.

[buhehe]

It's definitely worth it.



I'm comparing a liquid cooler to the stock cooler. I'm not here to compare liquid coolers to non-stock air coolers, that's absolutely ridiculous. That's like comparing SSD to HDD.

Clueless

Once again, I'm not here to compare a $60 liquid cooler to a $130 air cooler, that is completely ridiculous

130$? It's in the 6x$ range. Google is hard.

but it's necessary to have a mid-end liquid cooler for gaming/multiboxing.

Clueless

Well if you get a similarly priced air cooler instead of a liquid cooler, then that is just stupid.
I've never ever heard my liquid cooler make a single noise, you must have had a faulty one.
Yes they do kinda perform similarly, but a AIO liquid cooler is definitely better performing temperature-wise for the price.

Clueless

Yes, they can leak, but you are also right it's very rare for that to happen

I already stated that in my post

I don't know what you mean about your pump making noise, mine has never made a single noise

Common issue, Google it. Also, some people can be more sensitive to some noise frequencies, maybe you're not.

maybe because mine is closed loop?

ALL AIOs are closed loop

Compared to the prices in US/Canada, those are very different.
Amazon US prices:
NH-U12S: $170
H60: $60
H90: $100
H100: $250

Why do you make stuff up?
http://www.amazon.com/Noctua-NH-U12-...ywords=nh-u12s

I didn't say it makes it vanish [...] And no **** it would still put the air out in your room

Your words "With air cooling, it would be running at about 40-90 degrees celsius, which is extremely unhealthy for the computer and would make my room very hot"

air cooler -> high temp -> room very hot
which, by your logic, implies:
water cooler -> lower temps -> room is cooler

Hah

I have the H60i, so my fan and radiator is engineered to more efficiently work if it's blowing the air from outside the tower to inside and at the same time

I have no idea what you're trying to say here

[Jakkre]

About the CPU:
I bought my Xeon E3-1230v3 for 210 euro and it can handle up to 15 chars on low settings.
I dont think there is a cheaper processor for 10-15 boxing.

[TriNitY706]

I use 2 Nvidia GeForce 9800 GT graphic cards (4 monitors) and they serve their purpose very well (especially on low settings and not recording). They are about $30-50 on eBay. I have run 25 characters on them.

My processor is a AMD FX 8120 and I have done ICC 25 man farming and 10-15+ characters in the open world.