1. List of Hunter bugs I found on Blackrock.

    All specs of Hunters are currently set back by a variety of negative bugs that are among the harder ones to detect. A lot of these exist on lots of other Trinity Core based servers, so I'll provide links from external sources wherever possible.

    1) Pet GCD.

    Pet GCD is currently 1.5 seconds instead of 1.25 seconds as it ought to be. This bug exists on all the other WotLK servers on this realm, and was confirmed on the Lordaeron bugtracker: https://www.warmane.com/bugtracker/report/8943

    2) Steady Shot cast-time.

    Steady Shot's cast-time isn't properly reduced by Haste. This is most easily confirmed by going BM, and seeing that even despite having points into Serpent's Swiftness, you aren't haste-capped (20% ranged haste from Serpent's Swiftness + 15% base ranged haste should automatically haste-cap BM Hunters even if they have 0 haste rating). This issue was confirmed and successfully fixed on Lordaeron: https://www.warmane.com/bugtracker/report/9170

    3) Incorrect Crit Multipliers.

    Several Hunter abilities aren't critting for as much as they should be. A lot of the information on this can be found here: https://github.com/TrinityCore/TrinityCore/issues/15099. I tested and confirmed this bug using Arcane Shot, and it was only critting for about 2.472x normal damage, when that figure should be 2.484x. This bug also likely applies to Chimera Shot, Chimera-Serpent, Kill Shot, and Auto Shot, although I wasn't able to test those due to not being able to buy a suitable bow (you need http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=15808 to properly test damage formulas since it has no damage range) to test it with.

    This issue is caused by the meta-gem's bonus being applied into the calculation wrongly. The server is simply multiplying total crit damage by 3%. While this seems like the more intuitive way it ought to apply, it's not actually blizz-like.

    4) Ammunition DPS normalization

    This isn't a bug I was able to confirm (again, due to not having Fine Light Crossbow), but I strongly suspect it exists here due to the fact that several other Trinity Core-based private servers also have it, and because it's one of those bugs that next to no one realizes exists. This exists in Ragnaros/Deathwing, and possibly also Lordaeron (I haven't tested it on the latter yet).

    The issue is that the DPS from your ammunition is normalized, as opposed to multiplied by your weapon's attack speed. If you have Iceblade Arrow and a 3.0 speed bow, the contribution from ammunition into the damage formulas of your spells should be the following: 3.0 x 91.5 = 274.5. Instead, the DPS of the arrows are normalized to a 2.8 speed, and so regardless of the speed of your bow, the contribution from ammo DPS with Iceblade Arrows is: 2.8 x 91.5 = 256.2.

    Hunters using a bow faster than 2.8 speed are doing a bit too much damage, and Hunters using a bow slower than 2.8 speed are doing too little.

    Evidence that ammunition DPS should not be normalized: http://forums.elitistjerks.com/forum...omment-1587827. It's also confirmed numerous times throughout that thread that it should indeed be that way, and this is also easily seen on Shandara's spreadsheet.

  2. It's great to see you're so pro-active about reporting bugs, however, please create bug reports for them in the tracker instead. https://www.warmane.com/bugtracker

  3. There's no section for AT's Blackrock in the bugtracker though, or I wouldn't have made a thread here. There's one for Lordaeron, and then there's another for Ragnaros/Deathwing which is mostly obsolete since Lordaeron's core will be eventually applied to those realms.

  4. try to add "Blackrock" to the title of the bug you may report on the Bugtracker.
    However good job finding these bugs! There should be more players like you

  5. I wont comment on anything, other than that you are wrong on 3 and 4.
    Meta gem is fine as both ways of doing it give the same result and I don't see how can you know if it is or not blizzlike (have you seen the actual blizzard source code?) Regardless we won't be changing it as there is no difference.
    4. Not all shots are normalized, and slower weapons give more damage, not lower as you said. 10*3=30; 2.8*10=28 not the other way around.

  6. It`s about ammunition DPS currently being subject to normalisations where they shouldn`t.

  7. I haven't seen Blizzard's source codes for any of those bugs at all. My sources are simply extensively peer-reviewed data analysis from 3.3.5.

    3. The way the meta-gem calculation is done certainly has a slight impact on the final damage.

    This is what happens currently on Blackrock for Arcane Shot's crit damage, and it's probably safe to assume this is exactly the same formula that's applied to Chimera Shot and Aimed Shot crits:

    [100% + (100% + 30% (Mortal Shots) + 10% (Marked for Death))] x 1.03 (Meta-gem bonus) = 247.2%.

    While it seems like the most obvious way the meta-gem should apply, it's not correct.

    What should happen is the following.


    First, the total critical damage without any crit-boosting talents factored in is boosted by the meta-gem:
    200 x 1.03 = 206%.

    The damage of a non-crit is then subtracted, to leave you with the new crit damage bonus.
    206-100 = 106%.

    This crit damage bonus is then increased by talents that improve your crit damage bonus.
    106% x [30% (Mortal Shots) + 10% (Marked for Death)] = 148.4%

    The non-crit damage that was subtracted is then simply added back to give you the final crit damage:
    100% + 148.4% = 248.4%


    The link I provided itself contains links to numerous sources that confirm this. There is simply no way this many spreadsheets and EJ-reviewed guides were wrong in arriving at the same crit damage formula. As a result of the incorrect meta-gem calculation, Arcane Shot, Chimera Shot, Aimed Shot, Steady Shot, and Kill Shot are all critting for about 0.5% less damage than they should be critting for.

    This bug probably also applies to every other melee DPS that has a crit-damage bonus altering talent, though I haven't checked this on any class but a Hunter yet.

    4. It seems you completely misunderstood me. I know that not all shots are normalized - that's never what my point was. It's about the shots that factor in Ammunition damage doing it wrongly. If you sent the toon Tasert a http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=15808 by mail I could more easily confirm this.
    Edited: November 11, 2015

  8. So, how does meta work normally?
    (1+1)*1.03?

  9. I do not know if this may help about how the "crit bonus" was working on Retail, this is a video of a Feral from Retail with a talent which " increase your dmg from Critical strikes by 10%" and the Meta +3% https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaEAG4VXqSk
    at 1:25 he applies a Rip that makes 1788 as not-Crit and 4052 as Crit
    so the formula is this 1788*2*1,1*1,03=4051,6
    Keep in mind that the Feral talent is a bit different from the one of Hunter and War, in theirs case the talent have effect on the "critical bonus Dmg", the feral one directly on the "Critical Dmg"

    Edit: @DarkenedHue if on Blackrock it is working as you said (so "[100% + (100% + 30% (Mortal Shots) + 10% (Marked for Death))] x 1.03 (Meta-gem bonus) = 247.2%.") then on Blackrock it is working fine.
    Edited: November 11, 2015

  10. So, how does meta work normally?
    (1+1)*1.03?
    How it works right now on Blackrock is it takes your total crit damage without any meta-gem, and then simply multiplies that by 1.03. This is actually the incorrect formula. How it should work in your given example is:

    [1.06 x 1.0 (This 1.0 is whatever crit damage increasing talents you have, and in your example you had none)] + 1.0 = 2.06.

    Of course in your example we arrive at the same number whichever formula we use, but that's only because there were crit-damage increasing talents. When crit damage increasing talents like Mortal Shots and Marked for Death come into play, there ends up being a difference.

    Edit: @DarkenedHue if on Blackrock it is working as you said (so "[100% + (100% + 30% (Mortal Shots) + 10% (Marked for Death))] x 1.03 (Meta-gem bonus) = 247.2%.") then on Blackrock it is working fine.
    No, it's not. I've already explained why, and literally every reputable data source or spreadsheet I've dug up from 3.3.5 confirms this.

    The example of Feral Druids uses a different formula because the Predatory Instincts talent works very differently from Impale or Mortal Shots.

  11. So you are saying instead of (1+1+0.3+0.1)=2.4 it should be working like ((1+1)-1)*(1+0.3+0.1))+1=2.4.
    And with meta, that would be (1+1+0.3+0.1)*1.03=2.472 and ((1+1)*1.03-1)*(1+0.3+0.1))+1)=2.484.

    I'm sorry but I have 4 problems with what you are saying,
    1.Does not follow math fundamentals or logic.
    2. "double dipping"
    3. Just because you have read it somewhere doesn't make it true, even if its EJ and Blizz forums (yes, they make mistakes).
    4. Impossible to prove at this point of time.

  12. Why would this be illogical?

  13. Wouldn't it be the best to use Rawr or Simulationcraft to identify the formula that Retail was using?
    Just equip a meta gem and check the dmg increase and then it should be possible to identify the formula behind it.

  14. It errs too much on the side of being unreasonable to insist that this many reputable sources all arriving at the same less intuitive answer instead of the more obvious one was a huge coincidence and that they were all simply incorrect. These are the same people that tend to be correct where Blizzard themselves are wrong on the way a particular mechanic works.

    The way the meta-gem should work doesn't seem very logical, as I of course agree. But it's how it worked on retail.

    There is something of a double-dipping that goes on, which is explained here: http://forums.elitistjerks.com/forum...comment=942294

    This is what the author of the much reknown Shandara's spreadsheet said about the way it works. Note that the Marked for Death talent isn't being taken in this example:

    The crit damage calculations aren't quite what you'd expect.

    It's like this. Your standard crit bonus is 100%. You add Mortal Shots to it and end up with 130%. THEN you multiphy with the relentless earthstorm diamond, but it counts twice. So 130% * 1,06 = 137,8%. Add the base damage (i..e 100%) to that.

    So 926 * ( 100% + 137,8% ) = 2202,028

    Don't ask me why the relentless diamond counts twice, though. It just seems to match the facts.
    Edited: November 12, 2015

  15. No bug fixes on Blackrock since merge, you might as well lock this topic already.

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