WotLK Need help whit weapon choice for prot pvp?

[Jakkre]

I literally just spend 30 minutes calculating the damage and you pull some stupid arguments from your *** like a 3rd grader
Please support your claims with an actual numbers, because when i see "In addition Bloodvenom Blade has the better stats." I have an urge to puke

Sorry but ur math is bogus. Especially ur calculation when it comes to expertice is nonsense.
This is not pve. U cant calculate the value of stats like expertice or hit in such a way for pvp.
http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=50672 vs http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=50737
9 ap, 52 hit, 44 arp, 24 exp rating vs 18 agi, 56 crit, 48 haste
- 24 exp rating is better than 48 haste
- 9ap, 52 hit, 44 arp is better than 18 agi, 56 crit

Conclusion:
- The sword has the better attributes while the axe has more weapon dmg.
- The tiny bit more weapon dmg doesnt affect shield slam and shock wave.
- As Orc i would get the axe and as human the sword.

[uyouoityuyt]

Blue cars are better than Yellow cars, because I think so and I am too lazy to do the math.

I love the reasoning in your claims.

In the end it doesnt mather if you have havoc and do 2% more damage or bvb and do less damage and are over hitcapped by 38 because at 1500 mmr its irrelevant.

[jendah]

I love the reasoning in your claims.

In the end it doesnt mather if you have havoc and do 2% more damage or bvb and do less damage and are over hitcapped by 38 because at 1500 mmr its irrelevant.

I did calculations based on your own data.. you told that you experienced 3% dodges + parries over 6M dmg done during arenas.

3 expertise give you 0.75% higher chance to avoid dodge and parry = 1.5% dmg increase since you just get 1.5% attacks less avoided during 6m dmg dealt by you....

with bvb you would prolly swap feet to arp ones and use ashen ring for ap proc (or even just use orange str+hit gems, so you get most value of socket bonuses as well), so you don't overcap that much.

[Beanlord]

I'm not an expert on warrior, but I do believe jakkre has a point, if what he says is true (weap dmg affecting only 3 dmg abilities). If you are a human that extra arp and hit + exp could potentially save you 2-3 gems or maybe an entire item slot depending on what gear setup you use resulting in what I believe would be higher stats and thus better damage overall. Same thing for an orc, since they get a +5 exp when wielding axes.

But of course you could simply try it out on a human, gem it and compare, or an orc ofc. You could do it on Blackrock, where you play, since gear there is free and is specific (non-heroics I believe?) or you could try rarw just to look at raw stat figures since the dps/mitigation/survival etc. statistics aren't accurate.

[uyouoityuyt]

I did calculations based on your own data.. you told that you experienced 3% dodges + parries over 6M dmg done during arenas.

3 expertise give you 0.75% higher chance to avoid dodge and parry = 1.5% dmg increase since you just get 1.5% attacks less avoided during 6m dmg dealt by you....

with bvb you would prolly swap feet to arp ones and use ashen ring for ap proc (or even just use orange str+hit gems, so you get most value of socket bonuses as well), so you don't overcap that much.

i dont even know why i am writing here but.

do you even math?

like i said if 80% of your attack come from behind/when target is stuned/casting that means expertise effectivenes is reduced by 80% therefore it doesnt increase overall damage by 1.5% but 0.3%



ok so first of all having pve prot gloves and shoulders is a must
that alone gives you 69 hit rating+59 from ashen ring+52 from bvb thats already 180 hit and you are overcappin=16 stat lost
so you wouldnt even gem hit, like do you even think about what you write?

if you get http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=50639 instead of http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=54578 you are already loosing 32 strength ! 7 crit rating and 7 worth of stats from 81 hit vs 74 armor pene

I'm not an expert on warrior, but I do believe jakkre has a point, if what he says is true (weap dmg affecting only 3 dmg abilities). If you are a human that extra arp and hit + exp could potentially save you 2-3 gems or maybe an entire item slot depending on what gear setup you use resulting in what I believe would be higher stats and thus better damage overall. Same thing for an orc, since they get a +5 exp when wielding axes.

But of course you could simply try it out on a human, gem it and compare, or an orc ofc. You could do it on Blackrock, where you play, since gear there is free and is specific (non-heroics I believe?) or you could try rarw just to look at raw stat figures since the dps/mitigation/survival etc. statistics aren't accurate.

devastate and heroic strike+melee+deep wounds deals overall 40% of your damage

nobody is going to play orc prot warrior you basicaly swap 150 resilience (completely useless) and loose 167 armor pene and DBW proc.

[Jakkre]

I did calculations based on your own data.. you told that you experienced 3% dodges + parries over 6M dmg done during arenas.

3 expertise give you 0.75% higher chance to avoid dodge and parry = 1.5% dmg increase since you just get 1.5% attacks less avoided during 6m dmg dealt by you....

Exactly.

do you even math?

like i said if 80% of your attack come from behind/when target is stuned/casting that means expertise effectivenes is reduced by 80% therefore it doesnt increase overall damage by 1.5% but 0.3%

as you can see from my 6 mil recount damage from arenas 4% of attacks get parried/dodged

Do u see the mistake in ur own math?
U said that in average 4% of ur attacks get dodged and parried. This already takes into account that u attack 80% of the time from behind.

Now 23 additional expertice would reduce the dodge and parry chance by 0,75%
So in average 3,25% of ur attacks would be dodged and parried and therefore ur dmg would increase by 1,5%

In additon ur complete calculation here is complete bogus when it comes to pvp and I dont even wanna waist time to talk about it.
The problem is that u treat pvp as if it was pve.
PvP is not a dps race and u cant calculate the value of expertice like this.
When u fight in the arena and u want to land a fast stun with http://wotlk.openwow.com/spell=12809 on a healer then u wont find always the time to run behind the healer just so he cant dodge.
I rather have a 0,75% reduced chance that my abilitys gonna be parried or dodged than 48 haste which increase my auto attack speed by 1.46%.
1.46% increased auto attack speed gives u nothing but a minor increase of ur sustain dmg. The fact that u have in pvp only a short up time on the enemy makes a increased auto attack speed even more useless.

0,75% reduced chance that the enemy parry or dodge a important ability can be a game changer in arena.
1,46% improved auto attack speed does nothing.

Therefore 24 exp rating > 34 haste

ok so first of all having pve prot gloves and shoulders is a must
that alone gives you 69 hit rating+59 from ashen ring+52 from bvb thats already 180 hit and you are overcappin=16 stat lost
so you wouldnt even gem hit, like do you even think about what you write?

Keep in mind that 5% hit is just the softcap.
The hard cap is 7% hit so getting more than 164 hit isnt waisted.

http://armory.warmane.com/character/...thwing/summary
Even in ur current gear combination u wouldnt reach the 7% hard cap when u replace http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=50737 with http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=50672.

nobody is going to play orc prot warrior you basicaly swap 150 resilience (completely useless) and loose 167 armor pene and DBW proc.

Not everybody plays alliance.

[uyouoityuyt]

Exactly.



Do u see the mistake in ur own math?
U said that in average 4% of ur attacks get dodged and parried. This already takes into account that u attack 80% of the time from behind.

Now 23 additional expertice would reduce the dodge and parry chance by 0,75%
So in average 3,25% of ur attacks would be dodged and parried and therefore ur dmg would increase by 1,5%

I dont even know what to say to this, are you trolling me?
Do i really need to explain BASIC math to you?
if only 20 percent of all attacks can be dodgable, and 4% of ALL attacks is a dodge/parry, that means that their actuall dodge and parry chance is 20% if you count in the expertise for 1.5% that means their dodge and parry chance is reduced to 18.5%.
Therefore going from overall 4% dodge/parry to 3.7% dodge/parry.
Giving you overall 0.30%+ damage boost.
(cba doing the exact math)

In additon ur complete calculation here is complete bogus when it comes to pvp and I dont even wanna waist time to talk about it.
The problem is that u treat pvp as if it was pve.
PvP is not a dps race and u cant calculate the value of expertice like this.
When u fight in the arena and u want to land a fast stun with http://wotlk.openwow.com/spell=12809 on a healer then u wont find always the time to run behind the healer just so he cant dodge.
I rather have a 0,75% reduced chance that my abilitys gonna be parried or dodged than 48 haste which increase my auto attack speed by 1.46%.
1.46% increased auto attack speed gives u nothing but a minor increase of ur sustain dmg. The fact that u have in pvp only a short up time on the enemy makes a increased auto attack speed even more useless.

0,75% reduced chance that the enemy parry or dodge a important ability can be a game changer in arena.
1,46% improved auto attack speed does nothing.

Therefore 24 exp rating > 34 haste

first of all
from 164 CB in my recount 4 of them were parried and 2 missed

WOW what a gamebreaking discovery you just made!
we have been doing this pvp thing wrong for 7 years, expertise is the best GAME-CHANGING stat ever.
as prot you have a lot of uptime on the target and 48 haste haste gives you some damage boost (around 0.15%).
(by your logic this can also be considered game-changing because you attack 1.46% faster and that means 1.46% more autoattack=and that means you might get one extra autoattack and kill your enemy)

Keep in mind that 5% hit is just the softcap.
The hard cap is 7% hit so getting more than 164 hit isnt waisted.

http://armory.warmane.com/character/...thwing/summary
Even in ur current gear combination u wouldnt reach the 7% hard cap when u replace http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=50737 with http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=50672.

what is hardcap in pvp please, explain.

164 hit rating is the hitcap for all melee abilities.
talents that reduce hit chances cant be countered by going more hit rating
therefore any hit rating above 164 is worthless

[Jakkre]

if only 20 percent of all attacks can be dodgable, and 4% of ALL attacks is a dodge/parry, that means that their actuall dodge and parry chance is 20% if you count in the expertise for 1.5% that means their dodge and parry chance is reduced to 18.5%.

Ur math is complete bogus.
U claim that u attack the enemy only 20% of the time from in front but 4% of ur attacks get dodged and parried.
This would mean that ur average opponent dodge and parry 1/5 of ur attacks when u attack him from infront. :D
Too bad that the average player has only a dodge chance of maybe 4 - 8%.... XD

WOW what a gamebreaking discovery you just made!
we have been doing this pvp thing wrong for 7 years, expertise is the best GAME-CHANGING stat ever.

Yep, Expertice is indeed a pretty good stat. Not as good as u make it look but definitely better than Haste.

(by your logic this can also be considered game-changing because you attack 1.46% faster and that means 1.46% more autoattack=and that means you might get one extra autoattack and kill your enemy)

U dont get it.
Expertice increase ur chance to land a stun effect on the opponent.
When u miss a CC effect on the target it can be indeed a game changer in a arena fight.
Now I dont say that u should stack expertice like mad but u should get it over haste.

talents that reduce hit chances cant be countered by going more hit rating
therefore any hit rating above 164 is worthless

Incorrect.
Racials and talents that reduce the chance to get hit can be countered by increasing the hit chance.
Thats why a hit soft and hard cap exists even in pvp.

Anyway. I made my point.
If u think that http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=50737 is better than use it.
If u love theorycrafting in pvp then please use programs like RAWR for it. Ur own calculations are just terribly wrong.

[jhjhgjhg]

dude just stop trolling please

iam trying to figure out what objectively the best weapon and you come here with

no math

no proofs

imaginary and incorrect facts

no objection

[dike]

havoc is fcking trash - u will actually lose more ap when equiping havoc instead of bvb, for reaching arp cap
when full bis with jc/bs proffs difference is +1.51% crit chance and - 134 ap for havoc, from raw gear stats


http://armory.warmane.com/character/...thwing/summary this is what almost bis loke like, except ring/wrist and wep are normal, not hc take in mind that i have bs so t10 gloves are socketed with x2 arp gems, and when i get hc tosks they will be socketed with x2 str

my total stats atm are : 5547 ap; 1374 arp rating; 31.25% crit chance unbuffed

[uyouoityuyt]

havoc is fcking trash - u will actually lose more ap when equiping havoc instead of bvb, for reaching arp cap
when full bis with jc/bs proffs difference is +1.51% crit chance and - 134 ap for havoc, from raw gear stats


http://armory.warmane.com/character/...thwing/summary this is what almost bis loke like, except ring/wrist and wep are normal, not hc take in mind that i have bs so t10 gloves are socketed with x2 arp gems, and when i get hc tosks they will be socketed with x2 str

my total stats atm are : 5547 ap; 1374 arp rating; 31.25% crit chance unbuffed

Look at your gems.

Look at them.

Think about your life.

Why are you doing this to yourself.

[dike]

Look at your gems.

Look at them.

Think about your life.

Why are you doing this to yourself.

ahahahah which gems exactly, dumbass?

u just dont have any argumentation behind any of ur posts in this thread, so ye, go troll somewhere else

[iSullivan]

ahahahah which gems exactly, dumbass?

u just dont have any argumentation behind any of ur posts in this thread, so ye, go troll somewhere else

Dude posted 2 hours worth of math in his previous posts based on 3v3 arenas, maybe you missed em ?

[Jakkre]

Dude posted 2 hours worth of math in his previous posts based on 3v3 arenas, maybe you missed em ?

Math which is based on dps numbers and is even incorrect.
U get stats like hit and expertice so u dont miss CC abilitys and not to improve ur dps like in pve.
PvP =/ PvE
http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=50672 is mainly for the additioanl hit and expertice.

[iSullivan]

So with BvB you get 180 hit (hands ashen and BvB) with the bis set up, with Axe and the rs feet you don't need the ashen so you slap it for might of blight and get 20 hit on hands totaling to 170.


So it comes down to bvb and ashen ring, or axe and more raw stats/higher ilvl but no ashen proc, which is better ?
Discuss.

P.S. if only chardev worked.