WotLK - Raid compositions: The rogue, feral cat hate (Serious topic)

[Funkymusic]

After skimming over the thread, all I can say is that you rarely find them in raids for a combination of reasons.

1. Finding a good player is rare for any class, especially ones that aren't entirely working.
2. Even if a class is fixed it will take quite a while before the viability is widely known.
3. The Warmane/Molten community is good at believing old news, real or not, and ignoring anything else.
   
   • A good example would be the current state of resilience, as perceived by players.
4. A lot of people choose a class based on how well they have seen it preform, so Rogues are Ferals continue to be rare.
   
   • Just look at how popular Rets and Hunters have gotten.

this is important.

look from playing all of wrath in retail to coming here i too was like wtf.

ferals and rogues were top damage in ICC back then even with SM on our warrior, ret, and both dks. unfortunately it comes down to three main points.

not a lot of people understand energy classes or how to play them properly. and by a lot i mean there are literally 2-3 per server who i can actually say know how to play their class. feral is the hardest dps class to play properly at this point in the game and i dont care what anyone else says unless you were a god in retail with it it really is a hard class (this is not mop wehre combo points carry over to another target).

secondly raid comps in general are such a mess... i dont know maybe its just my guild i can speak for here but i have played on every realm with most every top guild until recently. there are no affliction locks (due to them being broke) and they do bring a nice buff. your hero caster should be an enh shaman so he can time up his/her wolves for max dps but they too are broke and useless. blood dks and unholy dks are hardly ever used and they both bring something to the table to help the raid. arcane mages as well... you get the point. i dont see the same thing i saw in retail when it comes to raid comps. you always had one of each class in a raid minus a disc till lk and minus a hpriest till sindy. u used these raid comps to maximize your dps and buffs. lets not kid ourselves here. there are still buffs that stack and buffs we shouldent be able to use. if or when those get fixed you will see a lower dps in raid than you do now. this is all assuming everything will be working 100% in a few months though so lol i guess.

lastly...the classes are broke. it sucks but there are better options right now and the way the scripts are just makes it easier to not use them. not saying we dont but not having them is an easier path to better raid dps. it sucks but it is what it is.

wanted to touch on ferals real quick.

they do bring good buffs. people think its only an AOE heal and crit buff. dont forget we can vate people because we dont need it. we bring another battle rezz and we can OT at a moments notice pretty damn well. we can also bust a decent tranquility when needs be. people forget the utility a feral brings. ours in retail would help OT H PP and soak a few stacks of the debuff in P3. it is such a flexible dps class. more so than any other dps class in terms of what we can do and things we provide the raid with. so for those laughing at feral or talking anything bad about it you obviously have never seen what a good one can do.

look we know 95% of molten is full fledged morons. over half of them dont even read a guide on their class. it is what it is. its just a product of playing on a private server. i dont like it and ive tried to change players minds but you cant. some people refuse to listen to reason.

[Selaya]

[ .. ]

look we know 95% of molten is full fledged morons. over half of them dont even read a guide on their class. it is what it is. its just a product of playing on a private server. i dont like it and ive tried to change players minds but you cant. some people refuse to listen to reason.

I very doubt retail was any different. It`s just the bigger player pool that basically enabled you to ignore all those ***********, which we cannot really afford here due to the rather shallow player pool.

[Funkymusic]

I very doubt retail was any different. It`s just the bigger player pool that basically enabled you to ignore all those ***********, which we cannot really afford here due to the rather shallow player pool.

it was a lot different. pugs in retail could and did kill lk 10 normal on a regular basis. some even 25 normal. people were trolled off the server for using GS requirements. it wasent all pretty and easy but it is a huge difference compared to molten. even in our guild as you know. maybe only the officer core would have been raid worthy material. and thats still a maybe.

[Sixtyninee]

You can easily get every buff in a 25 man and still have at least 5 slots left to fill with whatever you want.
Using more ranged than melee is about as useful as using more melee than range, it's easier to just even them out.
A combat rogue is easier to find than an arms warrior for the 4% debuff, and ferals are a lot easier to replace.
In the end I think there are some classes you want one of and others that you may want more.
Saying that rogues and ferals are broken beyond their usefulness is just a common claim by ignorant leads who think they know everything. (I'm not saying that anyone here said it, just pointing that out because I'm sure we've all heard it.)

My advice: If you play a rogue or feral then either get really good at it or pick another class/spec. Raids only need one, extras won't be wanted until they're commonly seen as better dps. But, as with everything else on here, don't get discouraged by the dimwits.

[Lynea]

it was a lot different. pugs in retail could and did kill lk 10 normal on a regular basis. some even 25 normal. people were trolled off the server for using GS requirements. it wasent all pretty and easy but it is a huge difference compared to molten. even in our guild as you know. maybe only the officer core would have been raid worthy material. and thats still a maybe.

Yep. There were plenty full clear GDKP runs on my realm, most of which were full PUG groups. Early in my gearing process there, I was carried through 25n with my **** geared tank set while filling a dps role (and doing 5k dps). Honestly, I would compare the quality of most PUG groups I got into to the 'above average' guild run here on Warmane.

[verminslayer]

it was a lot different. pugs in retail could and did kill lk 10 normal on a regular basis. some even 25 normal. people were trolled off the server for using GS requirements. it wasent all pretty and easy but it is a huge difference compared to molten. even in our guild as you know. maybe only the officer core would have been raid worthy material. and thats still a maybe.

You should actually try reading, he said there was a bigger player pool which allowed you to be more picky with who you raided with. In warmane you cannot do that without waiting 2hours to put together a competent pug. When people rq or dc mid raid it is very hard to convince someone to save themselves to the raid in warmane. This is why Pugs on warmane can't get pass plagueworks 80% of the time.

[Funkymusic]

You should actually try reading, he said there was a bigger player pool which allowed you to be more picky with who you raided with. In warmane you cannot do that without waiting 2hours to put together a competent pug. When people rq or dc mid raid it is very hard to convince someone to save themselves to the raid in warmane. This is why Pugs on warmane can't get pass plagueworks 80% of the time.

and you believe there was a bigger player pool? did you play retail wotlk? can you confirm what he says? ill tell you right now hes dead wrong.

sorry its exactly people like you coming here to try and argue a dumb point that makes the community what it is.

so you know why it takes 2 hours to put together a competent pug? because the players here have no clue what they are doing. trust me there are a hell of a lot more level 80s here than there were on our server on retail (granted moltdown knocked the player base down a ways from 1-3 years ago but still). my realm had 5 guilds actively progressing in ICC Heroic modes. thats about the same as what we have now on ragnaros but at 30% buff with BiS toons something all guilds in retail lacked (dont know about DW) granted i played on a medium low pop server but still. there were less 80s in retail because it was all 1x with a lot harder of a grind.

pugs here cant get past PP because they refuse to learn tactics. they think they can outgear a boss and an instance.

regular people on retail had better brains than regular people on molten. just like top guilds on my retail realm would crap on any guild on molten. the skill level is so different its an embarrassment. especially when this content has been out for so long and 1000000 videos exist on how to kill them on molten.

[Drakantas]

You should actually try reading, he said there was a bigger player pool which allowed you to be more picky with who you raided with. In warmane you cannot do that without waiting 2hours to put together a competent pug. When people rq or dc mid raid it is very hard to convince someone to save themselves to the raid in warmane. This is why Pugs on warmane can't get pass plagueworks 80% of the time.

Mind telling me where that 80% comes from? Or are you just letting your subhuman mouth run? Your reply has no sense on regards of the topic, you just came here to flame someone who is trying to provide his experience. If you can still make use of your brain, I'll ask you please to not reply back, thank you in advance.

I very doubt retail was any different. It`s just the bigger player pool that basically enabled you to ignore all those ***********, which we cannot really afford here due to the rather shallow player pool.

There was a bigger player pool if we talk about the total population Wotlk had back then in retail, but when it comes to realms, Warmane realms are almost-equally (http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/...op-of-a-server) populated and have a bigger 80s player pool and obviously are way more geared than what retail wotlk realms used to be.

But, I can say for sure that people in Retail put a lot more effort into raids. There in Retail, people choses what to play and it all comes to what kind of realm you're playing on, on most PvE servers it was absolutely normal to get to down Sindragosa on a normal pug. People even used to get into Ventrilo and coordinate each boss fight and even get to know more people, meanwhile here in Warmane people doesn't care about logging into RaidCall or TeamSpeak or whatever program you're using, and if you make those guys get into those channels you either get bots who don't say anything (and sometimes don't even listen anything) or *****s who aren't even part of that raid to "troll" around (and most of the times end up insulting everybody when they get called out).

TL;DR; I have no idea if they keep putting that much effort into downing bosses in retail, because you know, LFR... But I can say for sure it was how most of raids used to run till Cataclysm (Which was the time when I stopped playing).
TL;DR2; I used to love Retail pugs, it was truly a mmorpg experience.

[Sixtyninee]

Mind telling me where that 80% comes from?

Actually I can somewhat confirm that pugs won't pass plagueworks about 80% of the time. However, the reasoning behind that isn't entirely correct. It's more or less just the fact that anyone who's decent has been snagged by a guild and would rather raid with them, unless they're on an alt. And, as we all know, a lot of people can't play their alts nearly as well as their mains. There's also the possibility that people who play for free are less invested when compared to those who pay to play on retail.

Source: I've been bored lately and, you know, I have a bunch of alts.

meanwhile here in Warmane people doesn't care about logging into RaidCall or TeamSpeak or whatever program you're using, and if you make those guys get into those channels you either get bots who don't say anything (and sometimes don't even listen anything) or *****s who aren't even part of that raid to "troll" around (and most of the times end up insulting everybody when they get called out).

It sounds like you have experience with these people. Yikes

[verminslayer]

Mind telling me where that 80% comes from? Or are you just letting your subhuman mouth run? Your reply has no sense on regards of the topic, you just came here to flame someone who is trying to provide his experience. If you can still make use of your brain, I'll ask you please to not reply back, thank you in advance.


There was a bigger player pool if we talk about the total population Wotlk had back then in retail, but when it comes to realms, Warmane realms are almost-equally (http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/...op-of-a-server) populated and have a bigger 80s player pool and obviously are way more geared than what retail wotlk realms used to be.

But, I can say for sure that people in Retail put a lot more effort into raids. There in Retail, people choses what to play and it all comes to what kind of realm you're playing on, on most PvE servers it was absolutely normal to get to down Sindragosa on a normal pug. People even used to get into Ventrilo and coordinate each boss fight and even get to know more people, meanwhile here in Warmane people doesn't care about logging into RaidCall or TeamSpeak or whatever program you're using, and if you make those guys get into those channels you either get bots who don't say anything (and sometimes don't even listen anything) or *****s who aren't even part of that raid to "troll" around (and most of the times end up insulting everybody when they get called out).

TL;DR; I have no idea if they keep putting that much effort into downing bosses in retail, because you know, LFR... But I can say for sure it was how most of raids used to run till Cataclysm (Which was the time when I stopped playing).
TL;DR2; I used to love Retail pugs, it was truly a mmorpg experience.

I've raided with pugs on this server long enough to know that only 1 in 5 25man icc pug raids manage to get pass plagueworks and even less percentage manage to get pass VDW

Also have you even played recently? because if i recall you said somewhere in another post you haven't raided in a while, so what exactly would you know about the current state of raiding in pugs.

So maybe you can hop off your girlfriends sausage and shut your 'subhuman' mouth of yours.

Also I am just going to have to quote you on being a hypocrite; Your reply has no sense on regards of the topic, you just came here to flame someone who is trying to provide his experience. If you can still make use of your brain, I'll ask you please to not reply back, thank you in advance.

Thanks.

[SyncNR1]

Tyraztwo best feral druid ragnaros kthxbye.

xoxo

[shanye1974]

Tyraztwo best feral druid ragnaros kthxbye.

xoxo

u mean that noob feral with exploits. ROFL!!!

ALSO feral can do very good DPS.if u know how to play.and Combat Rogue have great melee BUFF, so dont blame class.