Are you trying to prove a point with irrelevant common sense?
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Forum Veteran nº 69
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Forum Veteran
Well my destro goes over 20k easely... and Im at 6,4k missing 5 peices from bis atm. The reason Demo and hybrid does high dmg is 1 They are on a bad raid with low dmg thus 35% phase lasts longer and they can spew out tons of soulfires, 2 in LoD you never go destro simply because phase 3 lasts for ages, and soulfire aswell, while the tanks move the boss around from spirits you just stand in middle spamming soulfire with a teleport on the side incase you get defiled. And because of the frostmourne phase makes metamorphis run off cd every time, so if you have 3-4 frostmourne phases.... Wich almost every lod does. you will have 3-4 metas with full soulfire.
Im in currently the best guild on Ragnaros - Horde (TFK) and we down LoD 4 times a week.
Our raids have such high dps that my demo (that topped 23k dps in pug) cant get above 18k cause 35% hp on boss lasts for max 25-30 seconds.
Example, My destro topped 24k, Hybrid 22k, Demo 23k (Testing Affli alot now since i got double haste trinks last week) In our guild raids. Reason why I hate hybrid is because molten core still havent been fixed for ages and molten core is one of the biggest dps boosts for hybrid, along with soulfire and corn.
Im right up at the top 3 with bis hunters every fking time as destro, My thought is, you never ever seen a destro doin good.
Not even hybrid stands a chanse there, affliction and destro are the only once who can go highest in dps becuse they are classes with constant high dps, no CD's that increases your dmg by that big ammount like almost every other class, so they are bound to have high dmg from start to end without any peak (unless you get cd's from someone else)Edited: January 1, 2016
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Forum Veteran nº 69
This. However, I tested cts+dfo on one of my locks and I still prefer cts+pnl. Both of my locks are affliction. I also haven't seen too many good destro locks, probably for the same reason that the only bis arcane mages I know of are mine and my gf's. It's a shame how rare it is to find someone who wants to really experiment with gear and specs, glad I'm not alone.
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Forum Veteran
I also tested this and I ended up on more dps with PNL instead of DFO, wich I found very wierd since everyone sais go 2 haste trinks, Anyway Im not rlly done testing but, I donnu why everyone say DFO is best, have they even tried out the difference?
With double haste trinks im at 1571 haste as affliction wich should be perfect or damn close to perfect.
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Member
Disk I just asked if you try there destro, cause i try few times affliction and this are the results i get.
About PNL vs DFO after 1420 haste till 1670 if you don't go over that you don't add 1 more tick on corruption. You need around 1470 just to have 1.5 sec casting time on shadow bolt over that it's a big dps lost having more haste.
Because if you don't go close to 1.7k haste you don't add more ticks on corruption and you don't go under 1.5 s casting time. You don't add nothing but you lose spell power and critical and this 2 are the best stats after you reach 1450 + haste. We are not even talking the way DFO proc works which is really bad compere to other 2 trinkets.
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Forum Veteran
Thats exactly what I thought too, that the procc is just too bad, but thanks man, that number really helps me.
Since im demo and destro more (or have been) I allways went full sp and just a sp/haste in yellow sockets so if i really want to try it I should really go haste all the way.
Uhm, Yeah I guess, I tried alot of affliction around Naxxaramas but it was way before you could get haste cap without donating for everything so most of the times, the other speccs did more, but it was for sure the most fun specc Iv'e tried so I didnt reallt care so much for the dps, In the end the dps difference wasent even that big either.
Every warlock spec does very similair damage.Edited: January 4, 2016
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Member
Thats not how wotlk works (more ticks with haste was added in cata)... you will never add more ticks to corruption in wotlk. It will only tick faster (dot is shortened).
Why would shortening shadow bolt cast time under 1.5s be a dps loss? You are shortening GCD as well.
While I believe that your results are correct, it is for different reasons, than those mentioned.
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Member
This is another way to say it you add more ticks on corruption. Example with zero haste for full duration corruption ticks 6 times by adding 297 haste for full duration it will tick 7 times and so on at the end by adding haste you cut the ticks and duration which makes corruption tick more for less time, and that for me is adding ticks. After one point its really beneficial on burning phase because there is the only time where you left corruption to tick for all most full duration's as aff wlock.
As far as i know you cant push your GCD under 1.0sec so adding more haste after that just for the GCD simply it will not work. For 3 sec you will be able to do 3 instant spell or 3 cast spells with 1sec or under, because every one of them have 1 sec GCD. Don`t matter if you have 1500 or 2000 haste.
Its a dps loss because to move shadow bolt from 1.5sec cast to 1.4sec you need alot of haste which you can have by adding few pure haste games and /or double haste trinkets with few pure haste gems.
Example for 100 shadow bolts you will need 150 sec and this is 2m and 30sec if your cast time is 1.4 sec for the same time you will cast 107 shadow bolts(in perfect scenario).
Lest say average in icc 25hc you cast around 30 - 45 shadow bolts per boss you will ad up at best 2 more shadow bolts. But you will lose a lot spell power, crit and better trinket proc, which will make all your spells to hit for less including shadow bolts. Are you going to sacrifice this 2 shadow botls for all that you lose, personally i will not.
That is why you have to balance you don`t want too much haste because having that will hurt your dps, if you are doing it over spell power and crit.
Here is a table at normal haste levels about corruption ticks. You can easy see how huge haste gaps are that`s why balance corruption/immolate with your main filler cast spell is so important. You don`t want to be in between cast with huge haste number, the best is you just reach casting time like this 1.6sec, 1.5sec, 1.4sec and so on but just under that not in between.
You aim what is the best tick you can reach with your current gear after that you aim for casting time all that with haste buffs you can have in raid groups.
1289 haste - 8 ticks
1289 haste + eradication - 9 ticks
1323 haste - 9 ticks
1323 haste + eradication - 10 ticks
1535 haste - 9 ticks
1535 haste + eradication - 11 ticks
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Member
Corruption will always do 6 ticks over its full duration. If you cast it with 0 haste it will last 18 seconds and do a tick after 3s. If you cast it with X haste it will last 12 seconds and do damage after 2 seconds. Easy to check by unequipping/equipping all the haste gear.
I dont understand what are you trying to say.. Are you trying to fit certain amount of corruption tics into eradication proc?
So shortenting casting time of shadow bolt is not a dps loss - loosing other stats for it is, right?
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Forum Veteran nº 69
He's trying to use irrelevant information to prove an entirely different point that really doesn't need to be proven, while failing to understand that faster ticks does not equate to more of them. I think the simplest way to explain corruption ticks is that haste shortens the length and the time between ticks is [length / 6]. Or at least that's what I got out of the run-on sentences after about my 5th read.
Edited: January 5, 2016
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Member
Considering that shadow priest and warlock dots aren't all that different, I also came to the came conclusion.
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Member
18 sec = 6 ticks
12 sec = 6 ticks till 18 sec we have 6 sec more and this will end up with 3 more tick which will make as do for the same time 18 sec 3 more hits or total 9 for the same time.
What i did say on the first line on my last post if you read it
[b]Example with zero haste for full duration corruption ticks 6 times by adding 297 haste for full duration it will tick 7 times and so on at the end by adding haste you cut the ticks and duration which makes corruption tick more for less time, and that for me is adding ticks/[b]
Math for dummy
Full duration on corruption is 18 sec with 6 ticks on zero haste which makes TICK ON EVERY 3 SEC. FOR 1 MINUTE IS 60 sec ÷ 3 sec each tick = 20 ticks per 1 min.
Full duration on corruption is 12 sec with 6 ticks on X amount of haste makes TICK ON EVER 2 SEC. FOR 1 MINUTE IS 60 sec ÷ 2 sec each tick = 30 ticks per 1 min.
THIS IS 10 more tick for the same time if that is not adding ticks i dont know what is.
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Member
That confused me a bit... you were talking about full duration of combat (and you see corruption that is 40 times refreshed still as single cast, which kind of makes sence). In that case it would be better to count with some realistic times like 120 seconds. Ofc its going to take a ton of haste to get 11 instead of 10 tics, but what about 61 instead of 60...
Adding 1 extra tick over 120s fight is going to take a very small amount of haste -> in fact every point of haste will add same amount of corruption dmg. (ofc there are theoretical situations when you could have X less haste and still do the same amount of corruption ticks, but those are irrelevant, because you never know how exactly long is the fight going to take - 0.5s longer and you might have lost a tick..) In addition quicker the corruption ticks, higher the uptime of Eradication (untill you reach almost 100%). Stacking other stats is more important after some point, but it has nothing to with this.
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Forum Veteran nº 69
/sigh
More ticks over the duration of the fight isn't even what I was talking about, I was talking about ticks in the duration of the dot, so please stop bringing up irrelevant crap.
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Member
I think it would be more correct to say that you can get more corruption casts in a single fight rather than trying to explain your case by saying haste increases the ticks of a dot.
I won't bother with all the math because #lazy but to put it in a better perspective:
If you have 0 haste and you manage to cast 30 corruptions during the encounter, that's xyz ticks from all 30 dots assuming you didn't clip any. (lazy)
If you have 1000 haste and you manage to cast 80 corruptions during the encounter then technically haste hasn't given you more ticks. Instead, haste has allowed you cast corruption more frequently which THEN equates to more ticks during the overall encounter.
A DoT tick is still a DoT tick, doesn't matter if your DoT duration is 8 seconds or 6 seconds it will always have the same amount of ticks regardless of your haste or the duration of the DoT.
The moral of the story being be careful how you word things, especially for people who aren't native English speakers. It can be very easy to get confused from the perspective of someone who doesn't understand how haste affects DoTs. Don't allow people to falsely believe haste ='s more ticks. It's more correct to state that haste ='s more dot casts that don't lead to clipping.Edited: January 6, 2016
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