Theorycrafting is not raw data. What you calculated in EP might not be true in real life. Make no mistake, I am talking about actual improvement as a result of changes. "my theorycrafting" is what made the improvement in the first place. If am wrong along with my assumptions and conclusions, what prompted the positive results?
Here's the inside scoop on actual EP values, there is none unless specifically set for the situation that we are in. Because if your calculations and values were correct, I would be very much in the dirt, and not by a little bit either. Once you sit on the same gear for a month you start getting creative. We play T7 on a 3.3.5 patch. Noone considered even remotely to play assassination before late ICC, and even then, Arp combat was very much a thing. Those numbers, I presume, were taken from EJ or more so their spreadsheets. Once again, considering the predicament, the values are not worth anything if they are not backed up. My calculations are simply evidence of how an improvement was made. I am also not hiding behind the numbers like it's a bloody bible. Think. I tried your way, I also tried my way. My way got me better results. Period.
When I am "1 item away" from BiS or even remotely close I will of course closely monitor what will happen. And if by then, I do not do the same DPS as you guys I'll come back here, delete my posts and leave a sincere apology for undermining your opinion. Until then, I'll go back to wallow in my supposed mediocrity :)
Have a good night fellas, stay sexy!
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Edited: March 7, 2016
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yes those arent the exact values for our server, however t hey are a fair approximation and were just given to you so that you can see the logic , because you only value ap for some reason and ignore other stats when you dont realize there are exact ratios @ which an amount of certain stat is better/equal to a point of attack power., or you realize and choose to ignore it for some reason.
Anyway goodnight , talk to you when you get there gl with drops
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Well It's pretty low considering you're only one item away from your bis list. That's what i pull, while missing 6 items on my list, without even a SR.
Thanks Capii for these posts, i'm glad to see we're on the same page here !
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@Kishlolz1: Well, before we start taking sides I want to make one thing clear, I perceive this as an ungoing discussion rather than a conflict of opinions. What I mentioned previously was tested to the best availability, and showed the results that I posted. However, nothing is set in stone and I will keep testing with every incoming item. I am also not quite sure weather the PM contents are meant to be public here, but the DPS in the screenshot is higher than the post suggests.
@Paragon rogues: I want to give a short insight into the thought process. I myself, like everyone else, found the generic guides and followed them. Until one evening I felt particularly bored to try a new setup. So just like you, I knew the established EP values, but despite it all decided to try the max AP build. So along with Macknife, we sat there in Dalaran for around 3 hours doing the calculations and accounting for all possible combinations. Afterwards, off to the PTR for extensive testing (3 tries for each setup, approx 4million damage on a dummy).
Not exactly sure how long this is going to be of any relevance, but perhaps we should reapproximate the actual values. I am strongly tilted to this opinion as all dummy tests, without exception, pointed towards the AP spec being superior. Now I don't know if the platform itself is bugged, but somehow +73AP / -31 Hit overshadowed the Crit / Haste increase. I mean after all, 21 expertise was never the cap on retail. Yet we get to be blissfully ignorant here.
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My little brother did 8k with 17 pieces missing !
You guys need to stop coming up with random numbers in your minds and think that why you guys are still missing 5 / 6 items after 15 + resets and when you are finally BiS test yours dps from patchwerk i am not gonna waste time with half geared rogues anymore who just type what they like with 0 info you can use what you like.. oh i mean what you have :P.
not to show off or anything but now you wanna be a keyboard warrior so i have done 7.7 k on patch which is the highest of any rogue on realm till date but i just wrote the average dps we do ( because of mixed core runs sometimes we are missing sunder armor etc ) but in perfect group dps is much higher. The day you are full BiS and you outdps us i will say sorry to you and accept your item build till then gl with drops because its no point to talk randomly without proof.
PM'ed you, send me yours when u are ready.
Just realized you are the one flaming gm's for helping clarity in ulduar sorry bro i cant keyboard war with you :DDd.Edited: March 7, 2016
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Yea i guess if you think your BiS list is making you happy just use that and dont spread wrong info here or create your own topic and let people decide which one they want to use :)
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Hello to everyone involved ins the Discussion. Allow me introduce myself, my name is Chiao formerly of Momento Mori on Frostmane EU. I was asked for my non-biased opinion on this discussion and I am going to provide it for you.
EP values that you, OP, are using:
Strength 1.1
Agility 2.02
Crit 1.86
White Hit 1.9
Spell Hit 3.17
Expertise 2.51
Haste 2.1
Armor Penetration 1.61
These are courtesy of Elitist Jerks, as crafted for patch 3.3.5 (ICC) for assassination rogues. Why post what you already stated? Because the values are true only while having above a certain gear score / item level. As you can see Haste is valued higher than Agility / Attack Power. That is not random. The exact moment when that becomes relevant is when you are able to sit on approximately 4.1k Attack Power without any buffs. Until then Attack Power has a monumentally higher value to it, compared to other secondary stats such as Crit / Haste. With both BiS lists mentioned above you will be able to sit on no more than 3.8k attack power.
So @Capii: The reason you see the dps increase is mainly because of that. As mentioned that will of course change once you hit the 4.1k Attack Power. Once you do, the 84 Crit + 21 Haste will be more valuable than 73 Attack Power. I wish I could be more helpful with the EP values before the Attack Power thresholds, but at least you have an explanation.
@Paragon rogues: I would not mock the use of http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=37642. As the first rule of theorycrafting before any values is to cap your melee essentials without the use of gems / enchants if at all possible. All within a reasonable margin of course, but that ring is not nearly as bad as you think it is.
I hope I manged to stay as neutral as possible. But I am a betting man, and granted you're all on the same gear level at some stage - my money would be on Capii. No hard feelings.
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Yea these values are for ICC gear not the current gear, and even if you look at current values 84 Crit + 21 Haste is still more valuable than 73 Attack Power. And its Paradox not Paragon :D.
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I am pretty sure it was sarcasm :D
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8k dps on patchwerk this week as only rogue in the raid(no tricks) wouldve had like 8.350
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Congratulations :)
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Now follow this list bro :D
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that was sarcasm bro,he aint following ****
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Sarcasm? Not really. 8k DPS on any non-buffer fight is quite good.
@Quach: Any chance you have actual logs as opposed to screenshots of damage meters? If that is not available I'd like to know a few things if you don't mind:
1: How many resto druids are spam healing you on Patch?
2: If you do have 2 rogues, do you trade tricks as part of your rotation consistently?
3: Do you notice a drastic fluctuation of your personal DPS if the raid setup changes? (alts, different classes etc)
Would have gotten all this from logs :P
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0 resto druids
0 tricks
ofc when alt runs its normal but thsi was our first core only run in a while we had everything
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/w...?s=7778&e=8001 here enjoy
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