1. It is #5. The only ICC25hc weapon it beats is Cryptmaker. The list provided in the guide exists with the assumption that Bryntroll works as it is intended. It does not hold a candle to any of the 4 weapons above it.

  2. What profession to get for a new player

  3. What profession to get for a new player
    Tailoring is basically free and is a good prof. The other profs which are better off (Engi/jwc/bs) will be a lot more costly. Enchanting, LW and alchemy are all below them and will cost some money as well. There really isn't a 2nd prof that would be useful and is as inexpensive as Tailoring. You'll be forced to throw some money.
    Edited: August 19, 2016

  4. Is it ok to swap http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=43869 for http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=41103 if I'm exp capped without it?
    Edited: August 24, 2016


  5. Is it just me or the hit rate for the agi hc bis goes over 300+?

  6. 282 hit with Umbrage. Polar Bear Claw Bracers are used if no Apocalypse's Advance or Signet of Twilight. Do not use all 3 of those items.

  7. Umm, there are no rs items (271) in normal non-heroic list. Also, there are lots of penetra items, so i didn't get it, what is better - "crit+haste" or "crit+penetra"? (like http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=50333 or http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=53126 ?)
    Or how much penetration should i have?
    Also - how many agility items is rational to have?

    + Please evaluate and advise me something about my pally!
    http://armory.warmane.com/character/...ecrown/summary
    Atm i'm planning on changing boots to 271 crit+hit, so i can change shoulders on t10. Also, i'm planning to change back, but not sure which one i should get - http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=49998 or http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=50019 (which is better?).
    Also about trinks - should i really focus on getting any deaths choice, or saving vote points for obtaining 271 scale is good? Does choice really outstands scale, even if it is a 245 version?
    Edited: September 2, 2016

  8. Umm, there are no rs items (271) in normal non-heroic list.
    Should be treated similarly to the heroic list.
    Ahn'kahar (neck) & Frostbitten (boots) -> Penumbra (neck) & Apocalype's Advance (boots)
    All you're doing here is trading the item slot that your hit rating is on.

    Also, there are lots of penetra items, so i didn't get it, what is better - "crit+haste" or "crit+penetra"? (like http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=50333 or http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=53126 ?)
    Umbrage will be better. Haste is generally a better stat, but ilvl plays a role here too. 7 ilvl difference here.

    @Item choices in general, the BIS lists are mostly intended to give you an idea/concept of what your gear should look like at a certain level. If you are unsure which item(s) would be better for you, I would encourage you to go download RAWR and run some sims with your character setup.
    Or how much penetration should i have?
    There is no set amount of armor penetration you have. It should be treated as a stat that is "ok" to have, but you shouldn't be trying to get more of it. You can drop the stat on an item slot if a better item is available for that slot that does not have the stat.

    Also - how many agility items is rational to have?
    For the standard gearing-up process, it is fine to have "agility items" in all item slots that is not your 4-piece tier slots.

    + Please evaluate and advise me something about my pally!
    http://armory.warmane.com/character/...ecrown/summary
    Atm i'm planning on changing boots to 271 crit+hit, so i can change shoulders on t10.
    No real criticisms from me. I would say your expertise is a little high, but not too much you can do to change that right now. Get rid of the blue gem in your boots. It's a dps loss and you have a Nightmare Tear already to activate your meta gem. Get your 4-set soon, though you said you are working on it.

    Also, i'm planning to change back, but not sure which one i should get - http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=49998 or http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=50019 (which is better?).
    Shadowvault Slayer's Cloak, by itself, is worth slightly more dps than Winding Sheet. What the difference would be with your gear set, to be specific, you would need to run a simulation (via RAWR) with it.

    Also about trinks - should i really focus on getting any deaths choice, or saving vote points for obtaining 271 scale is good? Does choice really outstands scale, even if it is a 245 version?
    Death's Choice normal is really strong up-front, but Sharpened Twilight Scale normal will probably serve you better in the long run. I ran a quick rawr on a gear set very similar to yours and it already puts Sharpened Twilight Scale ahead by about ~3-4 dps.


  9. No real criticisms from me. I would say your expertise is a little high, but not too much you can do to change that right now. Get rid of the blue gem in your boots. It's a dps loss and you have a Nightmare Tear already to activate your meta gem. Get your 4-set soon, though you said you are working on it.
    Well thats the idea - getting boots with hit to change shoulders, also i will change +20 hit gem to +10str +10hit to get exactly 8%.
    Same with expertise - i want to change cloak and get exactly 26 with one +20 exp gem.

    About blue gem - 16 or 20 str isn't that big difference, while +15 stamina is a pretty cool bonus. Also at that time blue one was cheaper, and i was low on gold... so ya, anyways i'm gonna change boots pretty soon.

  10. 271 Umbrage and 277 Toskks are on parity short of extreme and very unrealistic gear setups

  11. 271 Umbrage and 277 Toskks are on parity short of extreme and very unrealistic gear setups
    What do u mean?

  12. If I'm not mistaken, Selaya means that the difference between the two are incredibly small.

  13. Oh! I just realized this thread is alive.

    I used it a bit earlier, and I came back to it because I have some questions...

    I'm currently playing as a ret paladin for my guild on Lordaeron, and I feel like my dps is just unacceptably low. I'm not usually last, usually between 10th or 12th in a 25man setup (In pure single-target fights. In AoE fights I'm roughly between 4th and 6th).

    As you may know Lordaeron is currently on the Ulduar patch and ToC is coming soon, which means I cannot really use your BiS list. I had to make my own wishlist and didn't really find one online, even on archive.org from elitistjerks. Maybe I didn't look around properly... Anyway, I created my wishlist by choosing items that mostly grant strength+crit. There aren't THAT many options (There aren't different items in the same slot that each grant crit+haste, crit+arpen, crit+hit... There's usually 1 or 2 items that bring crit for one same slot) so I didn't have to make drastic choices.

    So! Question time.

    1) Unless I'm mistaken there are no plate wrists in Ulduar that grant strength+crit. Would you recommend getting a mail/leather wrist with crit on it, or a plate wrist with no crit? (We got a few rogues but almost no hunts or enhshams so it might be easier to find a mail one than a leather one)

    2) Trinkets? I've put Blood of the Old God and Dark Matter on my wishlist, I currently have Pyrite Infuser + Wrathstone. I know Darkmoon:Greatness is BiS until ICC, but... It's so expansive! I farm a lot, at night, when nobody else is here to share the Titanium Veins with me... And I barely have enough for Greatness! I don't want to spend all the money I've earned in months, for a trinket! I know I'm selfish, but do you think it's really worth it?

    3) T7 and T8: I currently run 4p T8. Would it be better to run non-set items? My feelings tell me that +10% damage on Exo/HoW and +10% crit on CS/DS is really good, but my feelings might be wrong...

    4) Emblem of Conquest non-set items: Since my 4p T8 are head+chest+gloves+shoulders, my legs can be a non-set. Should I get the ones sold for emblems (http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=45841) or would it be better to wait for a loot? My guild is getting close to managing Fire Leviathan HM, so Plated Leggings of Ruination (http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=45134) are close to my reach!
    If you answered "Wait for a loot" above, I guess I'll spend the emblems for the belt (http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=45824) since my current belt doesn't give crit.

    5) DPS Cycles: If I'm approaching the problematic correctly, the best DPS cycle is the one that makes you use the abilities that deal the most "Damage per use", with the exception of Judgement being first always because of the necessary mana refund.
    If that's so... My calculations clash with the DPS Priority you posted. The results I've got from hitting dummies tell me that the order of abilities sorted descending by "damage per use" is: Consec > Exo > DS > CS. (I didn't forget to include the Seal damage in the calculations for DS and CS!)

    5.a) Is that because I'm on the Ulduar patch, and you dps priority is on the ICC patch, meaning weapons deal far more damage, making CS and DS better than the holy damage spells? For instance: currently on a dummy, my consecration deals 4176 while my Divine Storm with Seal of Command active deals 2423.

    5.b) Or am I simply completely wrong about how I approach the problem?

    In any case... I'll try using your spell priority instead of mine in a raid tonight, and I'll see how it goes...

    6) I should've put this question after 1) but I'm silly: How do you decide a leather/mail item is an acceptable substitute to a plate item? The presence of desired stats (Such as crit, I assume?)

    7) Any specific advise you could give me about ToC, with the release of ToC being a matter of weeks for Lordaeron?

    Thanks a lot if you can answer all this.

  14. Hi there Armstrong!
    On your first major section, I would like to state that strength > anything at those levels. If an item gives a significant boost in strength, secondary stats are null (most of the time; hit and expertise are important as well). Those stats being crit, haste, armor pen, etc. (Again, not hit or expertise.)
    The lack of theory-crafting for Ulduar was probably due to how quickly Blizzard went from Naxx to ToC. Ulduar was current for a fairly short amount of time compared to other raid tiers, and there just wasn't too much theorycrafting going around at the time either.

    @1) Your plate bis would likely be http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=45888 or http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=45663
    It is hard to say right now (str or agi, but probably str), but I would highly recommend that you download RAWR for 3.3.5a and run some sims with your gear setup to tell you what is best. There's a very good chance that Armbands of Bedlam will be BIS. They are, however, a PITA to get, since they are from Mimiron HM.

    @2) Darkmoon Card: Greatness is BiS until you get Death's Verdict/Choice in ToC. The best trinkets out of Ulduar depend on what stats you need. If you're using Pyrite Infuser, that may mean you need another hit trinket to replace it. Blood of the Old God is a good choice in that case. Dark Matter is the best trinket if hit isn't an issue, and then other non-hit trinkets would follow after it.

    @3) Generally, getting the tier bonus is a must-have. I don't believe that, at this time, you'd have access to enough high ilvl items (239+) to replace the tier to make the set bonus not worth it.

    @4) Initially, you should treat emblems gear as a "boost" for you. If you can get items that you will temporarily use, which are better than you currently have, while having enough emblems to spend on it - you should definitely go for it. Always seek ways to boost your DPS. The greater you can boost your DPS, the better you can benefit your group. You should spend your emblems on items that will be better for you in the long-term first. Then use your emblems on short-term beneficial items afterward. Never "wait for loot". In a proper progression situation, this approach can cause you to fall behind.

    @5.a) If you want to work out a proper priority, make a ratio for your abilities. Average damage (include chance to crit in talents, Dr. Damage addon can be useful here) VS. CD of the ability. The abilities with the greatest ratio should take priority in most cases. I would have to do this work myself if I were to double check the values and rotation priority at your gear level. I would suggest that you try and work it out yourself, as it would make you both more knowledgeable about what you're doing, but it will also make you more confident in the process.

    @5.b) I can't say with absolute certainty at this point in time, but I would encourage you to try out different things. Check your parses (overall damage logs) and see what's working out best.

    @6) It happens when the leather item overtakes the plate item in stat values. Leather items have 4 damage stats on them and less stamina, as opposed to plate having only 3 and having more stamina. For example, an agility leather item will have agility, attack power, crit and haste on it. Whereas a plate item would not have attack power on it, as it is provided by the strength. Using stat weights or sims, you can determine if a leather item provides more damage stats for you than a plate item does. Using leather was frowned upon back in retail Ulduar, but that may have been due to the lack of theorycrafting. The items would have to be checked.

    @7) Focus on getting Death's Verdict/Choice (normal and heroic versions do stack with each other) and your tier set. Those will have the largest effect on your DPS. Also consider that the agility swords in ToC may be OK for you to use.

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