And you seem to mistake "competitive" for "comparable"
The competition in PvE is not against each other but against the boss, and in this regard, a paladin without SM can compete. period.
Now if you're going to look at who has the bigest dick on recount all night long, sure you will want to bring a SM, but then again, why not bring a mage in the first place and pay some dude to PI you everytime it's up?
Does bis do the same damage as non bis ? duh
You realize half of the raid playing more "supportive" DPS classes aren't "competitive" by your definition, despite being arguably the most important elements of a raid right ?
that's a really sad way to look at raiding
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Member
No, I'm not. The dps between an otherwise bis ret with Oath/gloren and one with SM is not comparable. The latter will completely eclipse the former.
Read the person's question again and try to grasp the context instead of arguing for the sake of argument. It's not about whether one should bring a mage instead of a ret to a raid.
Obviously? For example, demo warlocks aren't competitive but are needed and very appreciated in a raid. Moonkins aren't competitive but bring innervates, battle ress and 5% spell crit. Shadow priests are usually not up there but bring loads of passive healing, hymns and can off-heal if need be. That's why these classes are damage dealers but have more of a supportive role as you put it yourself. They can compete with each other, but not with the top of the line in terms of damage dealt damage dealers. That's the point. Paladins can, but you need to be fully geared, otherwise you will not be able to. It'd be good for you if you google the definition of the word just so we're on the same track. What you think it means isn't what it actually means.
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i don t want to beat a bis warrior with my ret, i m just 6.1 right now, i m asking if i can "top" a pug or something, a competitive dps for me mean like 15-18k dps, that is what i ask, if i can do that ???
i m doing around 13-14k right now (without tiny abom trinket, without 4set bonus, and rest of the items that are not bis)
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Member
Unlikely, you're missing some core things in your gear right now. I wager 13-14k would be close to your current limit considering this info.
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Yeah my point stands, you have no idea what competitive means
You can beat 15k but probably not 18k
My top dps as 6.3 ret was 17k5
maybe with sts hc you can
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Member
hey guys do you mind explaining me how bloodfall hc is better than bryntoll hc?
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Field Medic Moderator
That really depends on how bugged Bryntroll is. If it's working as intended, the proc damage doesn't stand up against stats.
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Member
11.33% chance to proc or 2 times per minute isn't comparable to the amount of haste and CRIT that the bloodfall offers while you lose 256,05 attackpower it can still be neglected for the amount of crit and haste that you gain.
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Hi guys, I was wondering what is the best buy for a ret in the feet slot: Hellfrozen Bonegrinders (Plate ICC recipe) or Footpads of Impending Death (Leather ICC recipe).
Just looking at the stats, given that the plate has ArP I would go with the leather boots but I'd like to know your opinion on this.
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Member
the strength plate ones are better.
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Field Medic Moderator
Values can vary depending on what gear you have, race choice, buffs, etc.
The two items by themselves with only a two-handed weapon equipped (a weapon like the Citadel Enforcer's Claymore), the DPS difference is about 5 DPS in favor of Hellfrozen Bonegrinders (strength).
The DPS difference between the two items with a gear set like mine (BIS or near-BIS) is around 40-45 DPS in favor of the Footpads of Impending Death, despite it putting the gear set over the expertise cap.
This is without the 30% ICC buff, which would cause the DPS difference between the two to fluctuate even further (60+ DPS in favor of the leather boots).
The conclusion is that, most likely, the leather boots are going to be better for you. Especially in the long-term as you gear up. I can try to give you some more accurate numbers fitting your character if you link me your armory, but the recommendation will likely not change: Use the leather boots until you get some better ones.
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Lether boots: 3.66% (ish) crit rate gained, 129 attackpower and 64 expertise (Gems and gem socket bonus not included)
Plate boots: 1.45% crit rate gained, 306,13 attackpower and 6.6% armor penetration (Gems and gem socket bonus not included)
Those are the benefits of the items so it can help you choose.
Note: (I used 54 agility=1% crit for rets from wowhead the post was in 2009 but still I'm not 100% sure that it's correct if it isn't correct me on it).
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Thank you both very much!
This is my armory: http://armory.warmane.com/character/...ecrown/summary
I went below the hit cap during this last raid where I gotWFS and the strenght cape, so I may want to gem a bit of hit for the time being. By tomorrow I will also have enough frost to buy the t10 chest.
Another thing: if I were to buy the leather boots the expertise on Vengeance of The Forsaken would be basically wasted. Would it be worth it to switch that for DC:G?Edited: October 27, 2019
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Field Medic Moderator
Even with your current gear set, Darkmoon Card: Greatness is about a ~80 DPS increase over Vengeance of the Forsaken for you.
With your current gear set, the leather boots (Footpads of Impending Death) is about a ~50 DPS increase for you over Hellfrozen Bonegrinders. If you switch your trinket to DC:G, the DPS difference between the two obviously would increase even further (by about ~5 or so).
TLDR; Use both Darkmoon Card: Greatness & leather boots.
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Member
Tyvm! Do you use Rawr for these calculations? If so, I could download it and avoid having to ask here for every upgrade in the future!
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