I would say they want more crit. agi gears provide more crit than str gears.
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Member
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Field Medic Moderator
No. The dps difference between them are small and they have intellect on them which helps with mana when you're getting a lot of DS procs.
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Member
Quick question. If I will get SM, I will lose 114 expertise from Glorenzelg, it means I will not be expertise caped with Seal of Command, it will drop DPS in RDFs or not? Of course with Seal of Corruption I will hit expertise cap from glyph, that's all right?
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Member
You need the expertise cap for raids(6.5%). For rdfs you need 5% i think but if you are bis i dont know why you would care about your dmg in rdfs that will be huge either way.
Anyway if you are under exp cap even with glyph, just use a gem or two. An expertise gem is around 2-3 expertise if i remember correctly and you need 26 for the cap. Bis lists are just this, bis lists. If you dont have the whole list of items then many items may be redundant(having more hit rating than cap for example) or using umbrage when you are under hit cap and you have polar bear in inventory.
Aim to cap hit then expertise then get whatever item keeps the equilibrium while having more strength and crit(agility is crit as well). Also armor pen < haste. Thats all there is to know about setting up
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Field Medic Moderator
Yes, capping with Seal of Corruption + expertise on tier legs is just fine.
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Member
@ mail gloves
Well the sims in rawr say that those are better than the strenght ones. You lose strenght but the crit diff between the two is >2.5%. After I saw the sims in rawr I tried it out and the extrat crit feels smoother to me. I'd like to see other ppl give these bad boys a try and give some feedback just in case I did something wrong in the sims. I used the bis all items list with sm, nightmare tear in the chest slot for the meta bonus, tailoring and bs (cause that is what i have on my paladin), and fierce ametrines for the yellow socket bonuses (i like fierce ametrines a bit better than inscribed ones with sm and rawr seems to agree).Going for the yellow socket bonuses yields more dps on single target sims.
https://imgur.com/jBAPb5C
Dps whoring is my life.
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Field Medic Moderator
The values you get in rawr are not going to be perfectly accurate because they're going to vary on the talents you setup, buffs you assign, the rotation you have input into it, and the various other pieces of gear you have equipped. But even so, you'll notice that the difference in what you've found using rawr is a difference of 6 dps. In either case, you're not going to notice much difference in damage. What you'll notice more than anything is that with the mail gloves, you'll have better mana management in longer fights.
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Member
The simulation I did was a single target fight with the icc buff and all the buffs from a 25 man group (-minus hysteria and tot) the priority list being Jud>DS>CS>Cons>Exorcism. Yeah its not going to be 100% accurate but thats not the point. The point was optimizing stats for the highest dps on your average single target fight. Optimizing my build is the thing that I like the most and in the finding BIS discution the mail gloves are a bit better than the strenght ones.
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Field Medic Moderator
Okay. What's your point?
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Member
great guide!
just wanna point out that the EoT Libram of Valiance (200 str for 16s) is BiS for Rets rather than the EoF Libram of Three Truths (220 str max for 15s)
EoF libram requires at least 20 seconds to stack it to the maximum potential, while the EoT libram is almost instantly triggered in the beginning of the fight, which is a way bigger value on the first 20 seconds of the fight in which you're popping Avenging Wrath and other cooldowns burst.
Also, some ICC fights have downtimes that keeps you from attacking for more than 15 seconds, in which you will need to pick up the stacks again, while the EoT libram triggers all the time and keeps reseting its timer before the buff runs out, as long as your attacking something.
In the end of the day, 20 strenght isn't that big of a difference for the EoF libram to be better
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Member
Depending on some of the fight settings such as heroism being an option, fight length, etc. you might get different recommendations. I've had Aldrianas which, contrary to popular belief, is actually still a really strong item for rets be my best in slot in rarw. That 6 dps difference you're seeing is likely just margin of error from the sim itself. Keep both gloves, use mail on lod/halion.
Agreed.
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Member
Aldrianas is right up there in my sim also, it bobs heads with anubs every even minute for the first 6 mins of the fight after which anubs pulls ahead. I see now its kinda pointless comparing different sims. We can always exchange sim conditions if you are interested in the marginal differences between the two agilitty items.
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Member
Sorry for the rambling. I saw a guy asking if the mail gloves are better than the strenght ones and I only saw one response. I wanted challenge that so anyone interested in build optimization checking the thread can try more options, run their own simulation and see which one is better for themselves.
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Field Medic Moderator
Fair enough.
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Member
@Catastroph I'm actually doing that right now. I wanted to see for myself the differences between Anub'ar Stalker's Gloves (the gloves you're talking about) and Fleshrending Gauntlets. It's part of a larger experiment where I'm comparing the differences between several agi/ap/crit gear and strength gear (most notably, Glorenzelg vs Oathbinder before I purchase one). I've done a lot of research on the topic of agility vs strength and have seen many, many people on different sides of the spectrum, but the general consensus was that some agility gear was better than the strength alternatives. I wanted to find out for myself what kind of DPS difference once could expect from going one build or another, and which build given my talent tree is the best for dps. Who knows, maybe the gloves are better in a specific configuration, or maybe they're an overall loss of dps. I was originally experimenting with gear in rawr, but found it was often inaccurate and unreliable (it once told me that Victor's Call, the togc10 trinket, was bis...). So, my data will be from in-game. 2 minutes at the heroic training dummy in IF for 2 minutes (cooldown of avenging wrath, that's what I use as the timer), 10 trials per set (I would do 30, but that would be >60 minutes per set of gear. No thanks). If anybody is interested in the results, I may post them in the forum on a new thread.
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