WotLK [Guide] Dual-Wield Frost Tank

[Mercy]

Yes, those point should be moved out of Two-Handed Weapon specialization to elsewhere. I was focusing on the changes in the Frost talents and forgot about the Blood talents. The Blood talents are pretty straightforward though.

[Nemmish]

Hey there! I know I might be kind of late to the guide, but I just started to experience the DKs, and was wondering of the talent section: https://wotlk.evowow.com/?talent#j0t...rhz00fuuAZcx0h
Wouldn't it be more useful to drop the 3 points from Ravenous Dead and use those points on the frost tree (or maybe on Bladed Armor)? Or is the 3% str increase that much worth it?
I know the talents can be twisted around, but I don't see that much worth of this talent in any variation.

[Mercy]

That talent was chosen because strength also increases parry chance for a DK, and the increase in ghoul health makes Death Pact more powerful. If you want more damage/threat, then yes, there are other talents like Bladed Armor you can invest in. The talent builds listed in the guide are by no means meant to be the type of builds that you "must" use. The talents are covered and explained in a depth that shoud allow the read to use them as a starting point, and manipulate the talents for their own needs (as they should with almost any class, but especially a tank).

[wTTF212]

https://wotlk.evowow.com/?talent#j0e...xcMIz00fuu:mws
Is the extra stamina, strength and expertise from Veteran of the Third War worth sacrificing Anticipation??

[Mercy]

The real question is: Are things like Frost Strike worth sacrificing Anticipation?
I'm personally not big on hybrid specs though.

[Whiteman]

i would go more for something like this https://wotlk.evowow.com/?talent#j0E...b0fzZcx:m0pm0V or https://wotlk.evowow.com/?talent#j0E...MIzb0fz:m0pm0V

[wTTF212]

i would go more for something like this https://wotlk.evowow.com/?talent#j0E...b0fzZcx:m0pm0V or https://wotlk.evowow.com/?talent#j0E...MIzb0fz:m0pm0V

Theoretically looks great and all, but practically?

[Whiteman]

i was testing https://wotlk.evowow.com/?talent#j0E...zb0fuhM:m0pm0V because i wanted to see acclimation how it works on some fights, but it sucks for fights i wonted to use, UA is nice but only armor and a little more parry + spell deflection isnt going to work on all bosses and u are going over armor cap.

[Gnimo]

Going for Nerves of Cold Steel and Threat of Thassarian is simply wasting 6 talent points for no reason.
3% melee hit wont matter almost at all, and that offhand dmg is **** anyway, especially if you are using tanking weapons.
There is NO REASON for you to go for DW unless you are chasing some sort of small extra avoidance.
Even so, there is no reason to go for those 6 talents since your aggro is Icy Touch anyway, and you dont get extra healing from offhand Death Strike like you did before.
https://wotlk.evowow.com/?talent#j0E...Iz00buh:whmM0V this should be your base for Frost spec, and with the last 5 talent points you can eather go for 5/5 Anticipation or get the 10% attack power aura in Blood tree:
https://wotlk.evowow.com/?talent#j0E...0buhZ0o:whmM0V

Regardless, Blood is still better than Frost and can also DW instead of going for a TwoHanded weapon.
https://wotlk.evowow.com/?talent#j0E...VMhzZ0b:pimV0M

There are also variations of talents that will help you tank dungeons a bit better as blood, something like:
https://wotlk.evowow.com/?talent#j0E...x0MZ0xG:pioV0M
Or i guess Frost can be done with some sort of AoE potential:
https://wotlk.evowow.com/?talent#j0E...zbuZ0xh:NwoV0M
Where again, that Melee DMG from TwoHanded weapon will come as handy a lot when u waste all your runes.
P.S. Spreading diseases and Hungering Cold and dropping DnD (stop auto attacking), or just DnD into Hungering Cold alone, on the targets wont break Hungering Cold but will give u nice threat advantage, just make sure you tell everyone in your group not to attack.

As for your question if Veteran is worth Anticipation, the meta for tanking here is to get as much Stamina and Armor as possible over avoidance.
Being able to survive 3 hits is better than being able to survive 2 and having some extra chance to dodge the 3rd one, since RNG is not your friend.
This goes for both Gear and Talent points.

[Mercy]

I appreciate your input Gnimo, but if we could keep the "Blood is better" conversation out of here, that'd be great.

[aymxn7]

use threat of thassarian if you use two dps weapons. if u use tank weapons it’s pretty **** for threat.

[Gnimo]

@Mercy
Ok, my apologies.

@aymxn7
DPS or Tanking weapons, its all the same when it comes to Threat.
Icy Touch is our main threat generator, you can build insane amount of aggro just by spamming IT without doing any other ability.

Why is the reason to go 2x OneHanded DPS weapons anyway, when you can get 1x TwoHanded weapon and do the job better?

The only reason anyone is considering DW is due to avoidance increase.
Going for DPS weapons and wasting 6 talents on something that will do LESS THREAT than just using a TwoHanded weapon is not a smart thing to do if u ask me.

[aymxn7]

@aymxn7
DPS or Tanking weapons, its all the same when it comes to Threat.
Icy Touch is our main threat generator, you can build insane amount of aggro just by spamming IT without doing any other ability.

Why is the reason to go 2x OneHanded DPS weapons anyway, when you can get 1x TwoHanded weapon and do the job better?

The only reason anyone is considering DW is due to avoidance increase.
Going for DPS weapons and wasting 6 talents on something that will do LESS THREAT than just using a TwoHanded weapon is not a smart thing to do if u ask me.

yeah, i agree. just trying to stay on topic for those people who want to try something different and tank with 1 handers.

the thing regarding threat is that, while your burst threat is the same, your rune strike (and white hit, blood and death strike) threat is gonna be total garbage with 1H weapons, especially fast tanking ones. i like to view rune strike for dk the same way as prot paladin’s seal stacks - it sustains your aggro so that the pala can break their rotation a bit to support the raid - in the dk’s case this means using less ITs and getting more self heals by death striking. when i tried dual wield, i found myself using more rune cycles to spam icy touch just ‘cause threat from rune strike was so bad, and i feel like i definitely lost a chunk of self healing capability. so yea, threat of thassarian helps this aspect of threat a bit but it’s a trash talent cos u lose so many good tanking talents to off set threat lost which could just be fixed by using a 2H weapon kappa. at the end of the day that extra avoidance won’t matter that much

[Steff0rr]

can you add the correct talent tree? you talk a lot about howling blast but have not specced it

[Mercy]

It's not feasible to add a talent tree to the guide for every possible build. Part of the point of the guide is to get players to think about their talents and abilities enough to where they can tailor talent and guild builds that suit their needs.

But, to humor you, such a build may look something like this: https://rpgworld.altervista.org/335/...00000000000000
Then remaining points elsewhere as needed.