1. So, the T9 2/5 set bonus was working, aka: the extra stats from the set bonus did stay even tho u equiped T10 over T9.
    Today, i did the same thing, and its like it was before, u gain the bonus only while u have 2/5 T9 equiped.

    Any news about this?

    Edit1:

    Oh, this explains it:
    https://www.warmane.com/bugtracker/report/62257

    I guess "attempted" fixes, and changes in 4.0.1 are how things should work on 3.3.5a here.

    On top of it all: 3.3.5 =/ 3.3.5a ...

    Edit2:

    "Just for the record (for people going through old posts and wondering why we talk about something that never happened), the fix was reverted on the PTR and never went live. Most likely, Blizzard realized that the fix had too many side-effects and the cure was worse than the disease -- something several of us pointed out on the PTR forum."

    http://web.archive.org/web/201008072...formation/p43/
    Edited: February 15, 2018

  2. It is asinine on a deep and fundamental level to insist that something that was bugged on live servers, but is presently working fine here, should be deliberately broken to appropriate its own bugged iteration back on live, for no reason other than because that's simply how it was at the time. That is beyond preposterous. Ignite munching would have to be implemented, Fury Warrior off-hand hits would have to be made not to miss if HS was queued, and that bug where your character would sometimes stay kneeled over until logging out after looting a corpse would have to be introduced too. These are the kinds of standards you're aspiring towards.

    No one with the faintest amount of common sense and familiarity with Blizzard's general stance on benefitting from gear you don't actually have equipped on you ever thought this was anything other than a bug. This was naturally also widely acknowledged to be a bug by the theory-crafting community, and the fact that Blizzard themselves attempted a hack-fix for this on a PTR destroys any last remnants of hope a person might have held out that it was somehow a kind of absurd "trick" they purposefully left in the game. The fix didn't end up going live for the same reason Ignite munching wasn't fixed until well after Cataclysm - engine limitations.
    Edited: February 15, 2018

  3. First of all
    theory-crafting community =/ Blizzard,
    And
    PTR =/ Live.

    Second:
    Attempting to fix and actualy fixing stuff are 2 whole diferent things. There are hell of a lot other **** that was done on PTR that didnt go live aswell.
    Why stop at molten armor? Go dig them all up and fix everything how u feel like...

    Third:
    U cant and will never know Blizzards reasoning why they didnt make this so called fix go live. I doubt they couldnt have fixed it the way staff does it here atm from my pov, since i doubt they lacked the expertise and the ideas...

    If u want to go this way u should never offer a Blizzlike expirience. U should offer "what theory-crafting community tough how things should work" or "PTR changes that could have got implemented on live server" expirience.
    Chosing which bugs should be called bugs and which things should be fixed cos of someones opinions instead of taking a live server as an example to strive forward is preposterous from my pov. All these minors bugs wer things that made WotLK expirience as it was.
    U dont have the right to call something a bug if it wasnt implemented on live unless u have something like:
    "This was a bug we didnt fix cos we wanted future private servers to try and fix it", from a BLIZZARDS employe not some player who wanted to feel better about himself with calling something bugged.

    This stuff got "fixed" cos "DarkenedHue" said so, but Death Grip from Melee range is still not posible. Awesome!

    P.S. I dont know about u but i still get that kneeling bug from time to time.
    Edited: February 15, 2018

  4. Most of that was a drivel-filled rant interspersed with condescension, ironically coming from someone who's among the last people on the forums who should have any business being condescending towards another person. Delving into some specific bits, though:

    I doubt they couldnt have fixed it the way staff does it here atm from my pov, since i doubt they lacked the expertise and the ideas...
    This betrays your lack of understanding as to how programming works. A number of other things that are manageable fixes here were outrageously difficult to fix on retail. This is because they were working within the limitations of their game engine, and their established core source code. This is why Ignite went without a fix for so many years, whereas munching has always been an exceedingly minor issue on private servers. There are a lot of things that, to a lay-person, might seem like they could be easily changed, when in reality that's not remotely the case.

    U cant and will never know Blizzards reasoning why they didnt make this so called fix go live.
    You literally quoted the most probable reason.

    "Most likely, Blizzard realized that the fix had too many side-effects and the cure was worse than the disease -- something several of us pointed out on the PTR forum."

    Blizzard either reverted the fix because the sheer amount of side-effects from changing something so fundamentally embedded in the core wasn't worth it, or they had a change of heart at the last minute and decided "You know what, why did we ever think this was a bug? What are we even doing trying to fix this?". To believe the latter requires that one be immensely disingenuous, delusional, or plain dense. It's honestly laughable that anyone can think this is a point that's open for argument.

    Chosing which bugs should be called bugs and which things should be fixed cos of someones opinions instead of taking a live server as an example to strive forward is preposterous from my pov.
    This wasn't deemed a bug arbitrarily. It was an application of a well-established precedent for how unequipped gear should work to the Mage 2p t9. You do realize that you are, in principle, also arguing for such things as Ignite-munching and the Warrior off-hand miss bugs to be implemented? But you wouldn't do that because you'd feel silly arguing such a position. Yet you curiously seem to suspend that standard here, despite the fact that unlike either of those things, this one is something there is clear evidence for Blizzard having tried to fix.

    So yeah, this wasn't declared a bug willy-nilly. It was deemed a bug because of, a) the abundance of reasons to believe this was not intended, such as the fact that Blizzard had never allowed toons to run around sporting more set bonuses than they were actually wearing, and b) it's something Blizzard themselves tried to fix. That more than certainly satisfies any prerequisites.

    This stuff got "fixed" cos "DarkenedHue" said so, but Death Grip from Melee range is still not posible. Awesome!
    This serves no purpose other than to end your hissy-fit on a high note.
    Edited: February 15, 2018

  5. There we go, the great HueHammer. This makes u any different, right? :D

    This was never about u, if it was, i wouldve said so... U really need to get over yourself.

    I really dont care what u think or have to say about me, the thing im mad about is, whatever u say that will have a slight evidence of it beeing truthfull, even tho it might not be the case for real or when u look at the greater picture, as T9 not buffing ur Spell (any Armor) after u change gear, they will change, no matter if its intended to work that way or not. T9 bonus didnt work for more than 6 months, and it got changed couple months ago, just to be reverted cos of ur newly report. People will play with it or without it, wont change a damn thing. God knows if its going to stay this way...
    There are far more greater bugs that could be attended to, rather than 1-2 extra crit chance for mages overall (which basically wont do anything but to take away that joy from players doing it).
    Whenever something that will Nerf DPS/Tanking/Healing gets fixed in a day.
    Whenever something that will improve DPS/Tanking/Healing needs to be analyzed and fixed in 6 months from the moment it got reported.

    "When you cast a spell/buff/anything, the damage/spellpower/whatever is determined from the time your cast finishes. So this means that, for example, if you cast Rejuvenation on a player with a trinket spellpower proc up, the Rejuvenation HoT on the target will have the extra spellpower for its full duration, regardless if your spellpower trinket wears off mid duration. Similarly, if you're a hunter and you cast Serpent Sting with an AP buff up, the Serpent Sting will tick for the buffed AP amount for its entire duration regardless if the AP buff wears off mid duration."
    This could also be the reason why they didnt want to change T9 interaction with Mage Armors. We can only imagine what else can be the reason because we dont know the exact one.

    As for other bugs that u are suggesting that are improving the gameplay here, i also disagree. Dont change them, leave them as they wer on Live server at the time of 3.3.5a.
    If u are offering Blizzlike experience to players, do so till the end.
    If u dont see that this only brings double standards towards a lot of other things, than i dont have anything to say to u anymore on this topic.

    U wont ever know the REAL reason why they didnt "fix" it, so u cant call it a bug.
    It might aswell be the case u said urself: "You know what, why did we ever think this was a bug? What are we even doing trying to fix this?"
    Also, i doubt "b) it's something Blizzard themselves tried to fix." could be used here, keyword "tried" (again, u dont know what it was that stoped this so called "fix" from going live, weather its a Programming issue, change of heart or any other god known reason).

    But yea, go dig some more possible bugs they also tried and fix them all as u please. :D

    Edit:

    I apologise for this, previous and next post here to all who are reading.
    I was venting, which i shouldnt have done in the first place.
    I hope no hard feelings will remain after this.
    Edited: February 22, 2018 Reason: Sorry

  6. Tier bonuses exist for the sole reason of rewarding players for using the appropriate set. I see absolutely no justification for why a player should be able to benefit from the bonuses of one set while wearing another. Allowing this achieves only two things: 1. It gives mages an unfair advantage over other classes. 2. It forces mages to carry and swap more gear for optimal performance. Neither of these have any positive impact on gameplay.

  7. That was just more of the same - grasping for any little reason to cry over the fact that you can't exploit a bug anymore, while doing a weak job dressing up the butt-hurt as reasonable disappointment. Also, you can't say that I'm making something about me (where did I say anything subjective to that effect anyway?), and then go on to literally make it about me in the very next sentence.

    There never was anything to be argued here. There's even less to be argued now that it's come to light Blizzard themselves attempted to get it fixed. There's no room for ambiguity of any sort. You're being dense, and you know it.

  8. @DamnOriginal
    That would be perfectly fine if all the classes wer exactly the same at every aspect of the game.

    @DarkenedHue
    Oh my, i lost maximum of 2% crit with couple of spirit items, what am i going to do now?
    Not like going for a bit diferent item/talent setup would make it all work as good as before...
    I guess il have to raid on my mage less than once a month cos i cant exploit, since im all about exploiting. :'(

    Meta and all kind of other stuff changed on warmane (molten) so many times (u could say almost with every big changelog), this is nothing more than a 1 item change. So i think il live...
    Altho, that was never the point of my comment, but yea, im the dense one.

  9. @DamnOriginal
    That would be perfectly fine if all the classes wer exactly the same at every aspect of the game.
    What does current class performance have to do with basic gameplay philosophies? You shouldn't be able to stack set bonuses because that defeats their entire point. If a class is underperforming, you buff it. You don't violate already established gameplay rules by giving that class a convoluted way of getting extra performance through the use of multiple tier sets that the class will have to carry and tediously swap to. Mages are already top DPS to begin with so I have no idea where you were going with this.

  10. In my opinion being Blizzlike don't mean being an exact copy of how the live realm was back un days. Being Blizzlike means following the Blizzard phylosophy. I'm almost certain that if Wotlk was still on live he would be different then back in 2010

    To my mind, the 2t9 have an unlogic behavior ans it shouldn't be possible to keep 3 set bonus un the same time.

    I think it can be only for 2 reasons the 2t9 fix wasn't apply live. 1/ the fix unbalanced the classes. 2/ a technical issue made the fix impacting too deeply the game and lead to major mechanic modifications

    1/ we can be sure isn't the reason why Blizzard didn't applied the fix live, because the fix don't remove the mage from his spot of top dps in the dps hierarchy.
    2/ I think they didn't applied the fix because of a too deep technical issue. Indeed I don't think Blizzard pass trough all the debug process, and decide at the very end to change is hearth and decide : "finnally this is not a bug"

    I was personnaly using that exploit as the only one I was ok for using. I don't like using abuse but this one feels different. It's not the case it's a bug he should be fix.

    @ Gnimo and DarkenedHue : it sad to see you guys being in such a childish mood. You seems both being good mages and you both share your experience on that forum section. Being both salty don't reflect properly your normal behavior.


    Regards,



    Tiny.

    PS: don't implement things like Ignite Munching please, let the time/technologie improve things =)

  11. I should apologise.
    Was not the time nor the place for that kind of argument, in that manner...

  12. I was just about to post that the 2t9 was bugged again.

    "Phew" good thing I read the chat or would of gotten my *** chewed as well. I honestly didn't know about them fixing it on the PTR bla bla. I always had the ignorant PoV that blizzard if they wanted to they could just fix it if they put the effort to it.

    but yea after reading all the points of views yea it makes sense, and now i'm more interested in the HS oh fix for war that Darkenhue mentioned. never knew about that XD

  13. May 15, 2018  
    I was just about to post that the 2t9 was bugged again.

    "Phew" good thing I read the chat or would of gotten my *** chewed as well. I honestly didn't know about them fixing it on the PTR bla bla. I always had the ignorant PoV that blizzard if they wanted to they could just fix it if they put the effort to it.

    but yea after reading all the points of views yea it makes sense, and now i'm more interested in the HS oh fix for war that Darkenhue mentioned. never knew about that XD
    2p t9 never was fixed during wotlk expansion. that report of darkenedhue (https://www.warmane.com/bugtracker/report/62257) is completely biased

    he wrote in the report:
    the t9 bug is being fixed in patch 3.3.5 so not worth listing or mentioning"
    - From the author of several stickied Mage Guides on Mmo-champion during WotLK.
    but in the same link he provided https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...-Mage-PvE-FAQ/ "author of several stickied Mage Guides" said

    when you upgrade to 251+ and t10 gear, keep 2 pieces of t9 to equip before casting molten armor then switching out for normal gear.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...=1#post8600138

    date of that comment is 2010-08-15 so its definitely 3.3.5a live and the "2pt9 bug was still there"

  14. May 15, 2018  
    I know the fix never went live. That's why I never claimed it did in the bug report. I only stated that they had attempted a crude hack fix to it on the PTR ("There is evidence suggesting Blizzard attempted a fix to the bug that was data-mined from people who had been on the 3.3.5 PTR.").

    The players I quoted were meant to testify to this.

  15. May 15, 2018  
    I know the fix never went live. That's why I never claimed it did in the bug report. I only stated that they had attempted a crude hack fix to it on the PTR ("There is evidence suggesting Blizzard attempted a fix to the bug that was data-mined from people who had been on the 3.3.5 PTR.").

    The players I quoted were meant to testify to this.
    so u pretty much made a false report based on pure bias towards "feature of 2pt9 mage bonus", nice job bruh. i noticed that last changelog was based almost only on your reports, so now i should check whatever else bull**** u claimed there

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