Welp, I have beein maining SV on Lordaeron ever since I started raiding and I can tell you that it is very viable. I'm perfectly aware of the fact that MM starts gaining way more later on with ARP gear, but I've also noticed how bad SV can look when compared to MM in 3.3.5 if it's not played correctly. Seeing these players and putting them in comparison with those that DO know how to play SV (like me), is already telling me that SV is perceived to be a lot weaker than it actually is in reality.
But, as it has been established several times now, due to the rich amounts of ARP you find on ToC+ level gear MM will come out ahead, but also because from what I recall ICC fights are not exactly fights you should or could play as melee when being a hunter, which means that you cannot properly use traps in your rotation, which in turn in my experience automatically makes SV a weaker spec than MM, on any level of gear. Using explosive trap + frost trap with T.N.T., Resourcefulness 3/3, and Glyph of Explosive Trap is the reasony why SV is so insanely strong at low levels of gear when there is no ARP to boost MM.
-
Dargenslayer
Edited: April 23, 2016
-
Member
Even without trapdancing you can make yourself very much significant at lower gear levels.
-
Dargenslayer
Absolutely, but I am willing to bet that MM will beat you when you're not using traps in your rotations. SV just doesn't seem to be able to keep up in 3.3.5 otherwise. I haven't done the testing so I wouldn't know of course, though.
-
Member
Viable? Yes. Chance to beat MM? Roughly 0%. Playing on Lordaeron where the core is active now, I can tell you there's no better spec than MM in terms of DPS. In any point of the endgame. There were some topics before where people said SV is equal if not better than MM for raiding with Naxx gear. I can tell you this is completely untrue. The magical number people were talking about is 400 ArP, and you get it with starting Ulduar gear (ilvl 232 bow). That's when you drop Arcane shot and focus purely on ArP. MM is the superior spec no matter the ArP.
-
Member
Sorry I didn't realise you meant 3.3.5
Unless there is some bugged mechanic on hunters in Lordaeron that pulls one spec behind or pushes one spec ahead as compared to retail, I think i'm bound to disagree. A large portion of the bias toward SV lies within the fact that not many hunters bother to practice with SV long enough to play it properly, discarding it for a variety of petty reasons in a short timeframe, ranging from it not being the 3-4 button wonder (too complicated), or not being able to manage cooldowns properly, or simply not getting shot priorities set straight, or exploiting the many perks that get invested in in their talent tree to maximise dps. Survival in a nutshell, requires waaaaay more fine-tuning than MM will ever require, in other words, a lot more skill dependant. This having been said, a fight where you don't step a toe out of line and perform perfectly (again, SV has tons more chances for you to make mistakes, bad positioning and movement management punish this spec like a nerfhammer), you end up a measly 5-10% AT BEST ahead of your MM counterpart
While I haven't had the pleasure of being able to test out the specs on Lordaeron, I believe the state of hunters there are very much blizzlike? Please do shed some light to someone who can't play on Lordaeron due to unfortunate circumstances ><;;. I was in a hardcore raiding guild on Blackrock Alliance from vanilla through to the end of Wotlk in which I was Class Leader, ran my fingers and spreadsheets into the ground testing all 3 specs with my boys back then for naxx, ulduar, toc, and ICC.
-
Dargenslayer
Come back to me when you can produce these numbers on PW, while playing MM. I've seen quite a few PW logs so far, and never seen a single MM hunter beat it.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=10734&e=10968
-
Member
Mm is superior at end game to bm since your getting into raids and would need the sustainable dps to pass encounters efficiently. Bm isn't bad nor is sv. I always play mm even when i level. Mm gives good dps and a good buff that helps melee peeps. Yes a dk does have the same if blood however I tend not to count there will be one every time. Bm has a nice buff as well however against a boss you might see your dps slack and in a close fight that can cause a wipe and potentially a RO especially if it is a pug. Sv is a way different play style that would require practice and hell even a separate hunt to get down the mechanics properly and to use at the full potential. Whereas mm and bm are simpler for the fact your procs and abilities are more about getting timing right. All specs can shine and even dominate but you gotta look past min max potential dps and look at play style to see why one would be more preferable in a situation rather than the others. The burst is why bm is awesome for pvp and people see it as such. Mm can top charts and stay there which is why people prefer it to pve. Sv is less used which is why not as many people are proficient at it. How many hunts run to mobs throw traps and then use jump back for more dps? I know I usually don't even though its about the equivalent to a volley in hands of mm. Learning a class is tough. So much to learn and sometimes it doesn't feel too fun learning but in the end when you wtf pwned your enemy, you feel that maybe the effort was worth it.
Tldr: all three do good dps just they all have to be handled differently and learned individually to fully understand how to make your spec shine for the situation and reason your using it.
To note I'm just giving my two cents and maybe stupid :) I don't mind insults I just ask you be creative with them xD
-
Member
Also to those above, mm becomes superior because of arp. Once you drop arcane for steady you get your end game rotation which then you benefit more from your haste since instead of three shots then spam you only use two then spam. You save a gcd for it and with arp you will feel more of the benefit. I still back my point though the play style is different though and doesn't necessarily mean its better absolutely.
-
Member
I don't know why there is this misconception that SV has to be all about trapping though, it really depends, you use it as you go kinda thing.
I'm pretty sure however that we can all agree that MM is definitely THE end game dps spec by far, however the debate at hand has currently evolved to a MM is not superior till x level of gear vs MM is superior throughout.
-
Dargenslayer
The reason is because Explosive Trap has in my experience managed to deal more than 4 times the damage of Black Arrow, alongside the guaranteed LnL trigger with Frost Traps. SV shouldn't be all about trapping, but in patch 3.3.5 it is of my opinion that in order to beat MM with any level of gear you will have to play with traps.
-
Member
With the talents in the tree for traps and the tools you have, its part of the dps for Sv. Just I think people aren't too into trapping or don't think it's worth it.
Quote
