WotLK Skadi's Ulduar Marksmanship Hunter BiS List

[mEOnGG]

http://www30.zippyshare.com/v/j12fEKGR/file.html <- This is the version I'm using, it is the latest one before the Cata version released (2.23). Keep in mind though (and maybe this is just for me) that it seems to crash as soon as you put pets into the equation and start optimizing. It should remain as a cat as a default select pet. Let it stay there, don't touch talents, pet rotation or pet buffs and it should be fine. However, because of this I recommend that you use Shandara's Spreadsheet instead. But if pet works fine for you in Rawr, please do feel free to keep on using it.

Choosing pets, pet talents, etc. works fine for me. But it seems to have like a 20 seconds delay each time I choose a pet talent too xD.

[purepownage]

Choosing pets, pet talents, etc. works fine for me. But it seems to have like a 20 seconds delay each time I choose a pet talent too xD.

Aight, that's good to hear. So it's only broken for me then :)

EDIT: Woud like to add though that if I change pet settings from default my client simply just crashes when I optimize. This is a running theme between different versions of it (tried 2.21/22/23). Might be something incompatible with my PC or something :p

[aspirine1024]

Hm.. Choosing a pet works for me but it seems I can't save pet talents. Gives some error.

[cryforfun]

Hello fellow hunters ^^
So i played around with this "Rwar" thing, its the first time i see it, tried switching a few talent points here and there and i found that with this spec i get more dps (atleast what Rawr is calculating) http://wotlk.openwow.com/talent#cxbhzZMeVsRhzGIRguVoh .Whats your opinion on this because i never saw someone runing this spec ingame ? If you dont have hit rating problem with your gear setup just remove the two points from focused aim and put them into improved tracking.

[purepownage]

Hello fellow hunters ^^
So i played around with this "Rwar" thing, its the first time i see it, tried switching a few talent points here and there and i found that with this spec i get more dps (atleast what Rawr is calculating) http://wotlk.openwow.com/talent#cxbhzZMeVsRhzGIRguVoh .Whats your opinion on this because i never saw someone runing this spec ingame ? If you dont have hit rating problem with your gear setup just remove the two points from focused aim and put them into improved tracking.

When using Rawr it is of essence to make sure you've had it setup correctly. For example, stuff like excessively long boss fights, missing mana buffs (judgement/blessing of wisdom, arcane intellect, gift of the wild) would mean that talents such as Rapid Recuperation becomes more favourable on paper. However, something you can do on Lordaeron and could not on retail is FD to reset potion cooldowns. This allows you to use multiple mana potions to sustain mana, effectively increasing your entire mana pool and avoiding necessities such as Aspect of the Viper and Rapid Recuperation.

And no, +90 AP (e.g +30% on dragonhawk) does not actually gain you more DPS than +2% damage as well as 4% crit on Arcane/Steady Shot :)

[aspirine1024]

When using Rawr it is of essence to make sure you've had it setup correctly. For example, stuff like excessively long boss fights, missing mana buffs (judgement/blessing of wisdom, arcane intellect, gift of the wild) would mean that talents such as Rapid Recuperation becomes more favourable on paper. However, something you can do on Lordaeron and could not on retail is FD to reset potion cooldowns. This allows you to use multiple mana potions to sustain mana, effectively increasing your entire mana pool and avoiding necessities such as Aspect of the Viper and Rapid Recuperation.

And no, +90 AP (e.g +30% on dragonhawk) does not actually gain you more DPS than +2% damage as well as 4% crit on Arcane/Steady Shot :)

99 AP because of Trueshot XD but yeah, it's way worse. The talent itself is not bad, but the problem is that to get it you need to waste 4 talent points instead of one. Which makes it completely not worth it as you have to drop better talents to get to take that one.

[purepownage]

99 AP because of Trueshot XD but yeah, it's way worse. The talent itself is not bad, but the problem is that to get it you need to waste 4 talent points instead of one. Which makes it completely not worth it as you have to drop better talents to get to take that one.

Wow, you beat me at my own game :^)))

But yeah, you're right haha. The actual talent is a serious DPS gain (more than +100 DPS potential) for one point, the big issue is just the 3 points you have to spend on armour increasing bull**** or whatnot to get there.

It's kinda funny how this is becoming a theorycrafting thread for Lordaeron hunters in general by the way. I like it, it's definitely something we can use since it's such a different patch gear-wise compared to ICC in many ways.

[cryforfun]

When using Rawr it is of essence to make sure you've had it setup correctly. For example, stuff like excessively long boss fights, missing mana buffs (judgement/blessing of wisdom, arcane intellect, gift of the wild) would mean that talents such as Rapid Recuperation becomes more favourable on paper. However, something you can do on Lordaeron and could not on retail is FD to reset potion cooldowns. This allows you to use multiple mana potions to sustain mana, effectively increasing your entire mana pool and avoiding necessities such as Aspect of the Viper and Rapid Recuperation.

And no, +90 AP (e.g +30% on dragonhawk) does not actually gain you more DPS than +2% damage as well as 4% crit on Arcane/Steady Shot :)

The Rapid Recuperation talent is debatable i think its actualy realy good because the long fights on Lordearon, and by using it you open more space for using haste potions instead of mana.Another question is "silencing shot" mana efficient at this point when you are low on armor pen and the fights are that long.Also the reason why Rawr calculates that 99 ap at this point is better than +2% damage and 4% crit on arcane/steady might have to do something with the graph that was posted earlier which showed that the more attack power you have the better value you get from armor pen(i might be greatly mistaken about the last part but this is what i understood from that graph :D).As i said im just playing around with Rawr and im trying to figure why it shows more dps when i get the Aspect Mastery and 3/5 Improved Tracking instead of 5/5 Improved Tracking and Survival Instincts.Rapid Recuperation has nothing to do with these its a personal choice.I guess the program cant acount for everything tho.

[purepownage]

The Rapid Recuperation talent is debatable i think its actualy realy good because the long fights on Lordearon, and by using it you open more space for using haste potions instead of mana.Another question is "silencing shot" mana efficient at this point when you are low on armor pen and the fights are that long.Also the reason why Rawr calculates that 99 ap at this point is better than +2% damage and 4% crit on arcane/steady might have to do something with the graph that was posted earlier which showed that the more attack power you have the better value you get from armor pen(i might be greatly mistaken about the last part but this is what i understood from that graph :D).As i said im just playing around with Rawr and im trying to figure why it shows more dps when i get the Aspect Mastery and 3/5 Improved Tracking instead of 5/5 Improved Tracking and Survival Instincts.Rapid Recuperation has nothing to do with these its a personal choice.I guess the program cant acount for everything tho.

I went into rawr and checked, and using your spec i lost around ~ 110 DPS due to the stuff I dropped. I'm certain it has to do with the way you've setup the software, not armor penetration. The more ARP you get the worse this talent pick becomes. It appears that the 2% damage modifier scales better than +99 AP, which imo makes sense. Even though AP increases in value as you gain more ARP (or ARP increases more in value the more AP you have, whichever you'd like), a flat 2% damage modifier is scaling whereas flat AP is just an additive damage modifier. So if anything, it would appear as if this talent choice of yours becomes better the less AP and ARP you have. Or the less DPS you have, in short.

Rapid Recuperation is good yes, but if you can play without it, you should play without it. I do not consider Speed Pots to grant more DPS than those you'd have to sacrifice in place for Mana Pots when you drop Rapid Recuperation. In a ~6 minutes fight you'd be able to use RF 4 times, which is a 80% mana recovery, which you could replace with 2 or 3 mana potions.

[cryforfun]

I went into rawr and checked, and using your spec i lost around ~ 110 DPS due to the stuff I dropped. I'm certain it has to do with the way you've setup the software, not armor penetration. The more ARP you get the worse this talent pick becomes. It appears that the 2% damage modifier scales better than +99 AP, which imo makes sense. Even though AP increases in value as you gain more ARP (or ARP increases more in value the more AP you have, whichever you'd like), a flat 2% damage modifier is scaling whereas flat AP is just an additive damage modifier. So if anything, it would appear as if this talent choice of yours becomes better the less AP and ARP you have. Or the less DPS you have, in short.

Rapid Recuperation is good yes, but if you can play without it, you should play without it. I do not consider Speed Pots to grant more DPS than those you'd have to sacrifice in place for Mana Pots when you drop Rapid Recuperation. In a ~6 minutes fight you'd be able to use RF 4 times, which is a 80% mana recovery, which you could replace with 2 or 3 mana potions.

You are comepletly right about this when i go self buffed i get more dps with the talents i linked but when i go with the full 25 man raid buff i do get more dps when using the standart talents.And i bet i can fix some other things around rawr that will prove you are right.So yeah i just didnt set it up correctly ^^

[purepownage]

You are comepletly right about this when i go self buffed i get more dps with the talents i linked but when i go with the full 25 man raid buff i do get more dps when using the standart talents.And i bet i can fix some other things around rawr that will prove you are right.So yeah i just didnt set it up correctly ^^

No problem, glad I just could be of help :)

Another tip when setting up rawr is to look for this thing: https://i.gyazo.com/3a777bc0ad96304f...7ec6f849b5.png <- And setting it to 0 if you want to calculate based on pure DPS. And also make sure you rotation is setup correctly for what you want to do with it, like this for example: https://i.gyazo.com/a93f457b48a7c747...7dcea36158.png

[cryforfun]

No problem, glad I just could be of help :)

Another tip when setting up rawr is to look for this thing: https://i.gyazo.com/3a777bc0ad96304f...7ec6f849b5.png <- And setting it to 0 if you want to calculate based on pure DPS. And also make sure you rotation is setup correctly for what you want to do with it, like this for example: https://i.gyazo.com/a93f457b48a7c747...7dcea36158.png

Ok i dont get why you put readiness at second place, and why kill shot isnt over chimera also did you drop arcane shot already or what ? And why dont you use a wolf ?

[purepownage]

Ok i dont get why you put readiness at second place, and why kill shot isnt over chimera also did you drop arcane shot already or what ? And why dont you use a wolf ?

Readiness shouldn't be at a 2nd place, I just picked the default MM rotation preset before taking the picture and when I cleaned it up it appears I forgot to remove the 2nd Readiness that gets put there automatically. As you can see, I did bother placing a Readiness at its rightful place though (7th spot) :)

Whether or not you want to prio Chimera Shot over KS depends entirely on the fight and context. The Iron Council (while not standing in a rune), Malygos (stacked sparks) and General Vezax are three examples where Chimera Shot goes before Kill Shot. As in the example of rawr, changing the position of Chimera and Kill Shot simply didn't change the DPS at all, probably because during the entire duration of the simulated fight having either of them first or second wouldn't cause you to lose out on an extra cooldown of either spells.

Regarding Arcane Shot - this is using my BiS Ulduar setup. Once you have that, you benefit from dropping Arcane Shot from the rotation due to the ARP you have, yes. And regarding my pet, as I explained above in the post, pets crash my rawr client. Because of this, I keep pets at standard settings (no talents, cat and the ****ty Growl/Claw rotation). Otherwise I simply cannot use the software at all. Due to this however I always double check my results using the very reliable Shandara's Spreadsheet. :)

[cryforfun]

Readiness shouldn't be at a 2nd place, I just picked the default MM rotation preset before taking the picture and when I cleaned it up it appears I forgot to remove the 2nd Readiness that gets put there automatically. As you can see, I did bother placing a Readiness at its rightful place though (7th spot) :)

Whether or not you want to prio Chimera Shot over KS depends entirely on the fight and context. The Iron Council (while not standing in a rune), Malygos (stacked sparks) and General Vezax are three examples where Chimera Shot goes before Kill Shot. As in the example of rawr, changing the position of Chimera and Kill Shot simply didn't change the DPS at all, probably because during the entire duration of the simulated fight having either of them first or second wouldn't cause you to lose out on an extra cooldown of either spells.

Regarding Arcane Shot - this is using my BiS Ulduar setup. Once you have that, you benefit from dropping Arcane Shot from the rotation due to the ARP you have, yes. And regarding my pet, as I explained above in the post, pets crash my rawr client. Because of this, I keep pets at standard settings (no talents, cat and the ****ty Growl/Claw rotation). Otherwise I simply cannot use the software at all. Due to this however I always double check my results using the very reliable Shandara's Spreadsheet. :)

Oh nice i guess i have to learn alot more about situational fights.I assume you are using Glyph of Kill Shot, Serpent Sting and chimera shot.What are your toughts on swaping that chimera shot glyph for Glyph of Steady Shot since its your most used ability and with more ARP it might be better ?

[aspirine1024]

Oh nice i guess i have to learn alot more about situational fights.I assume you are using Glyph of Kill Shot, Serpent Sting and chimera shot.What are your toughts on swaping that chimera shot glyph for Glyph of Steady Shot since its your most used ability and with more ARP it might be better ?

I'd sacrifice Kill Shot glyph for Steady glyph actually. I think it's definitely better when you remove Arcane Shot from rotation. But yeah I didn't check math on that.

Aedir, here is a version of rawr that (for me at least) works with pets:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/bw...05k3b/rawr.rar
It's version 2.3.23. But there's a more recent one for WotLK which is version 2.3.23.0, however I did not manage to find it. If anyone has it please post it in this thread. The problem with 2.3.23 or the standard 2.3.22 is that you can't save pet talents, and can't select Hunter's Mark from buffs section.
If you look here:
http://forums.elitistjerks.com/forum...leased-on-912/
You can see: "- Rawr.Hunter: Fix for the ability to select Hunter's Mark. Fix for a crash with Pet buffs and talents."
I don't mind not being able to save pet talents but not being able to select Hunter's Mark is pretty gay..

Anyway if the version I posted works for you with pets then it's at least something I suppose. Remember to run it as admin.