Unreal to get PVP gear

[adambakay1]

Hey! so after i hit lvl 80 I really wanna focus on pvp, but its almost impossible for someone withou equip to play bgs (and aliance never wins ffs), also honor rates are pretty low to buy atl full furi and wrath offset.

Any suggestions what to do ?

thanks

[cebolenkosi]

Do weekly Wintergrasp quests will give like 30k honor from there you have to spam BG's and farm honor that's the quickest way to get PvP gear.

[Thydus]

It's a one week grind to get ur wrath offsets and Furious gear, go do voa = chance for offsets to drop also emblems of Triumph can be exchanged for furious gear.But Pretty much ull be spamming bg's

[TheArtfulDodger]

One week as long as you spend hours every single day in Alterac Valley whilst clawing your own eyes out because each one lasts about an hour and nobody knows what to do..

To be frank. This server is very unkind to players that are looking to begin earning their PvP gear. Arena isn't that active so you will often meet players playing their tailor made BiS PvP characters. Same story in BGs. Usually some Shadowmourne wielder and a personal healbot that follows them around with no regard for the rest of their team.

Finally we got most of the Wintergrasp quests working recently so that makes the grind a little less painful.

The main problem is the rate at which you gain arena points. If you are looking to upgrade from furious to wrathful you're looking at earning an average of about 300 points per week. So that is about 8 weeks of arena to farm ONE wrathful piece?! I know you can earn more points depending on your rating, but assuming you are in furious I'm also assuming a limit to rating you achieve.

Arena point rates need some kind of buff to allow newer players to have a hope of entering the pvp scene that is already dominated by BiS players. If VoA could drop slightly more than retail it would help a lot.

[vasdos]

Stop QQing in the forums and either donate a 'tailored bis pvp char' as mentioned earlier in this thread or farm it yourself. you wont get any gear from QQing here...

[magaginho]

One week as long as you spend hours every single day in Alterac Valley whilst clawing your own eyes out because each one lasts about an hour and nobody knows what to do..

To be frank. This server is very unkind to players that are looking to begin earning their PvP gear. Arena isn't that active so you will often meet players playing their tailor made BiS PvP characters. Same story in BGs. Usually some Shadowmourne wielder and a personal healbot that follows them around with no regard for the rest of their team.

Finally we got most of the Wintergrasp quests working recently so that makes the grind a little less painful.

The main problem is the rate at which you gain arena points. If you are looking to upgrade from furious to wrathful you're looking at earning an average of about 300 points per week. So that is about 8 weeks of arena to farm ONE wrathful piece?! I know you can earn more points depending on your rating, but assuming you are in furious I'm also assuming a limit to rating you achieve.

Arena point rates need some kind of buff to allow newer players to have a hope of entering the pvp scene that is already dominated by BiS players. If VoA could drop slightly more than retail it would help a lot.

It was even harder if you had the bad luck of joining late a new PvP Season in Retail. You would have players that were BiS already and the honor gain isn't as high as it is in Warmane. With this said, you guys should stop complaining about it.

The server is up for more than a year so that means that everyone already raced their toons to BiS or near BiS. Then you have the ones who actually donated for their toons since they don't have the time or patience to grind them. What's the issue with that? It's unfair that I've been here since the start of Warmane and you didn't? It's unfair that I actually already grinded my way through PvP to obtain my gear and you didn't?

I actually took the time to get a full Furious set in one of my alts and that took me literally two days. If you guys aren't happy about that I don't know what to tell you.

[TheArtfulDodger]

Stop QQing in the forums and either donate a 'tailored bis pvp char' as mentioned earlier in this thread or farm it yourself. you wont get any gear from QQing here...

I already have multiple, but my point still stands. You just sound like a player who is happy to have an item advantage over others to maintain the illusion of skill.

It was even harder if you had the bad luck of joining late a new PvP Season in Retail. You would have players that were BiS already and the honor gain isn't as high as it is in Warmane. With this said, you guys should stop complaining about it.

Not really the same because on retail those BiS players and yourself would eventually be put on an even keel.

It's unfair that I've been here since the start of Warmane and you didn't? It's unfair that I actually already grinded my way through PvP to obtain my gear and you didn't?

Actually my account is 2 years older than your own.. but anyway you are missing the point. I am not QQing about my own experience. I HAVE multiple BiS characters available. I'm just saying there is very little incentive for a player to try and legitimately earn PvP gear on a server where the arena point rate is so low and everybody is already fulled geared.

At least on other servers if you started in a PvP set 2 tiers below your opponents you could actually farm arena points at a reasonable rate. Getting the rating is simple enough, but waiting a week for a pathetic amount of points is almost like a slap in the face.

Thus people lose the incentive to actually try the gargantuan task of gearing up their toons and just go back to their BiS characters. When people don't have incentive to try at all to gear a character, that's potential donations lost for Warmane.

[Lynea]

Actually my account is 2 years older than your own..

http://forum.warmane.com/member.php?username=pyroching
That's the account he used to regularly use. You're also missing his point. The point was that if someone has been here since the start of Molten/Warmane/whatever, you could claim they have an "unfair advantage" over you because they've had more time to farm.

All I can really say is welcome to an MMORPG. Farming is the name of the game.

[magaginho]

Not really the same because on retail those BiS players and yourself would eventually be put on an even keel.

Many of those changes were implemented recently and, I can't be 100% sure but, I don't remind myself of a gear adjustement back in WOTLK.

Actually my account is 2 years older than your own..

Really...? What's even the point of that? But just to get things out of the way:

I HAVE multiple BiS characters available. I'm just saying there is very little incentive for a player to try and legitimately earn PvP gear on a server where the arena point rate is so low and everybody is already fulled geared.

I'm sorry but there isn't. You can perfectly have an interesting duel against a Full Wrathful character while using Furious if you have all the mechanics incorporated in the back of your brain. If you really know what you're doing you can have an interesting match. Keep in mind that the gear might help but it doesn't make the player. I've been paying attention to a Frost Mage that has been farming gear for the last two weeks and I've seen that full set Furious mage destroying Wrathful players. How does he do it? He's on the top of his gaming.

At least on other servers if you started in a PvP set 2 tiers below your opponents you could actually farm arena points at a reasonable rate. Getting the rating is simple enough, but waiting a week for a pathetic amount of points is almost like a slap in the face.

And so can you in Warmane. You can farm arena points at a reasonable rate as well. You just can't expect the gear to carry you all the time. Let me also quote you an official statement for the arena point generation;

While you can be on one team of each type, at the end of each week you'll only gain points from the team that earned the most points that week. However, note that given equal rating, 5v5 teams earn more points per week than 3v3 (88%), which earn more than 2v2 (76%).

To clarify with an example:

Let's say you're on three teams (one of each format).
And at the end of the week, each of the teams you're on has a 1500 rating.
Assume that you were an active player on each team (i.e. your team played at least 10 battles and you participated in at least 30% of each teams battles)

Equation for Arena Points calculation:

You're trying to make a point that is hitting Blizzard herself. This was the system that used to be on live content. What you're expecting to happen is what happens in most of the fun servers. If you don't feel like going the typical grind of gear you have a realm called Blackrock where they provide you the gear in order to have a fair fight and where the skill has to come up.

Thus people lose the incentive to actually try the gargantuan task of gearing up their toons and just go back to their BiS characters. When people don't have incentive to try at all to gear a character, that's potential donations lost for Warmane.

I don't know in what realm you're currently playing but in Ragnaros, Horde Side, I see a lot of new players grinding their way through the gear. They get carried in BG's, initially? Yes, they do. Without doubts. Do they make a complaint about it? No. It's part of the system that was implemented by Blizzard herself and they have to submit themselves through those two days of pain before being able to do something.

[TheArtfulDodger]

You can perfectly have an interesting duel against a Full Wrathful character while using Furious if you have all the mechanics incorporated in the back of your brain.

Highly situational and frankly not true to be honest.. please don't use your own personal experience of beating bad players as proof that gear doesn't mean much. Especially considering you are talking about a frost mage, who if played right can simply avoid 90% of incoming damage. Also why are we talking about 1v1? Put a furious player in arena and it will highlight the gear discrepancy.

Let me also quote you an official statement for the arena point generation;

What was the point? I'm aware of the arena point calculations and my own proposed arena point intake was only really considering 2s, since the other queues are not active.

You're trying to make a point that is hitting Blizzard herself. This was the system that used to be on live content.

Which is fair? This is a an emulated server with 7x rates yet the weekly arena point intake is almost blizzlike. In my experience it has been immensely faster and easier to gear for pve than pvp due to the contrast between drop rates and arena point rate.

If you don't feel like going the typical grind of gear you have a realm called Blackrock where they provide you the gear in order to have a fair fight and where the skill has to come up.

Just because Blackrock is fair doesn't mean you can ignore glaring issues on other realms. That realm is only a shade of it's former self. So no "go play blackrock" is not a viable solution to this problem.

[Kasumii]

Just because Blackrock is fair doesn't mean you can ignore glaring issues on other realms. That realm is only a shade of it's former self. So no "go play blackrock" is not a viable solution to this problem.

The viable solution to this problem would be to report the issue on the bugtracker. Although, in our previous experience, addressing server issues here has been rather unproductive and uneventful.

[magaginho]

Highly situational and frankly not true to be honest.. please don't use your own personal experience of beating bad players as proof that gear doesn't mean much. Especially considering you are talking about a frost mage, who if played right can simply avoid 90% of incoming damage. Also why are we talking about 1v1? Put a furious player in arena and it will highlight the gear discrepancy.

How can you state that it is highly situational? How can you state that it's not true? The question points back to you. If by your own personal experience you're not able to pull that off, that doesn't necessarily mean that others can't.
I've placed myself with Full Furious partners in arenas before and they did what they had to do inside their own limitations. I'm not despising the fact that the gear counts to the math but it's NOT THE MAIN REASON OF YOUR LOSSES.

What was the point? I'm aware of the arena point calculations and my own proposed arena point intake was only really considering 2s, since the other queues are not active.

Answering with a quote;

but waiting a week for a pathetic amount of points is almost like a slap in the face.

Your own words. Not mine.

Which is fair? This is a an emulated server with 7x rates yet the weekly arena point intake is almost blizzlike. In my experience it has been immensely faster and easier to gear for pve than pvp due to the contrast between drop rates and arena point rate.

Yes, it is fair. You already have a 7x honor rate farm so that means you can obtain your Furious Set and off-pieces really quick - Even in one day if you no life it. The Arena points being Blizzlike has a logic behind it: Makes the ladder active and interesting . I'm starting to understand that for you it would be fun to achieve all of your gear in two weeks and then queue BG's as BiS. If you want to achieve something you have to grind for it. This is a MMORPG - Not a Hello Kitty browser game where there is no difficulty.

Just because Blackrock is fair doesn't mean you can ignore glaring issues on other realms. That realm is only a shade of it's former self. So no "go play blackrock" is not a viable solution to this problem.

You're one of the few that makes a rant about the way that you have to grind through the gear. So I'm sorry to drop this bomb - But it seems like it's your problem and not a realm problem. This specific topic was discussed multiple times in the past and everyone kindly agrees that the grind in Arenas is more than logical. You want a pain free experience? Grab your credit card and donate. I'm pretty sure the staff would appreciate a donation since they worked hard to offer you what you can play for free in this right same moment.

[Thydus]

Just like to point out if your earning only 300 a week ur bad kek

[TheArtfulDodger]

How can you state that it is highly situational? How can you state that it's not true? The question points back to you. If by your own personal experience you're not able to pull that off, that doesn't necessarily mean that others can't.

Are you simple? Because it is. I can pull it off and I do it often. My point is that if the players are equally skilled, they will not.

The Arena points being Blizzlike has a logic behind it: Makes the ladder active and interesting.

Typical attitude of a player who is happy to be facing furious players on his full wrathful char. This is an assumption, but I bet it's true.

I'm starting to understand that for you it would be fun to achieve all of your gear in two weeks and then queue BG's as BiS.

I said I didn't like that it took over a month to earn a single piece of wrathful.. how does that translate to "I want BiS in 2 weeks?" Please don't form extreme assumptions to back up your lack of argument.

Everyone kindly agrees.. the grind in Arenas is more than logical... Grab your credit card and donate

Solid points.. oh wait. These aren't points at all. This is the typical perspective of mediocre player who likes the status quo where their advantage over others is signficant. I have donated plenty across various accounts, because I actually do care about this server and if you'll notice above my suggestion was that more reasonable rates would actually encourage donations. I may be in the vocal minority, but that alone doesn't discredit my point. Oh I like the personal attack. I have a difference of opinion and it's a "me" problem.

Let's face it. The PvP scene on DW/Rag is very stale at the moment and in my opinion this is largely due to the vast discrepancy between players queueing. You can insult me all you like with claims that I am crying for easier gear, or acknowledge the point I was actually making which may help revitalize the PvP scene on these realms.

[magaginho]

Are you simple? Because it is. I can pull it off and I do it often. My point is that if the players are equally skilled, they will not.

In order for a human being to develop, tentatives of failing and repeat are mandatory. That applies in this case. In order for those players to develop they need to go through the hard grinding and suffer in order to develop their skills. That logic applies either in PvP or PvE. In both cenarios you need to struggle in order to develop and denying that is creating a community without any kind of acknowledgement about their gaming capabilities.

Typical attitude of a player who is happy to be facing furious players on his full wrathful char. This is an assumption, but I bet it's true.

I have multiple Toons with different sets of PvP Gear. Yes, I do own Wrathful toons but you know what? I've grinded in order to obtain it. I've submitted myself through the pain and here I am. I didn't quit and I didn't come to the forums make a rant about how much BG's or Arenas I had to queue. If the system was done like this - I have to go through it.

I said I didn't like that it took over a month to earn a single piece of wrathful.. how does that translate to "I want BiS in 2 weeks?" Please don't form extreme assumptions to back up your lack of argument.

It's not applying extreme assumptions is seeing the logic behind your statements. Your logic is quite simple: Make it easier for the new players to obtain PvP gear. Why should it be easier when it's already easy? As Thydus stated above - Go through some Battlegrounds, grind some Honor points and get your Furious set filled with the off-pieces you need. Go through some VoA's in order to get a chance on your Relentless or Wrathful pieces. Is it really that hard to achieve a decent PvP gear? Doesn't look like it, does it?

Solid points.. oh wait. These aren't points at all.

Denying the majority opinion leads to anarchy. If you think your point is so solid go present it to the developers themselves or to the staff themselves. In fact, you can even go ask the opinion to the multiple PvP guilds that exist in this server and you'll be surprised by watching how many of them submitted themselves through the same grinding the rest of the community did. I've never seen any single Hardcore PvP'er make a rant about what you're making. Usually the rant is about the MMR drop and Scripting in Arenas - But that's a whole different subject.

This is the typical perspective of mediocre player who likes the status quo where their advantage over others is signficant. I have donated plenty across various accounts, because I actually do care about this server and if you'll notice above my suggestion was that more reasonable rates would actually encourage donations.

Modifying rates doesn't translate to donations. In fact, if you apply common sense in this, the rates as they are just open doors to a high volume of donations since people with lack of time will not have the disponibility they need to submit themselves through the grinding. That directly translates to possible donations. I'm aware of multiple players that donated for Wrathful gear since they wouldn't have the time to grind BUT they do agree with the honor and arena points value as they are. Since it makes the PvP scenario more active and more competitive since multiple players need the personal ratings, making it easier, would just take that away.
I'm not abusing my Status Quo - I'm using common sense and logic in this subject that you refuse to understand. You already have a high honor rate going - Why would you need more help? At least sacrifice a little bit of your time through arenas.

Oh I like the personal attack. I have a difference of opinion and it's a "me" problem.

You're taking words in a sensitive approach. You're part of a minority group that refuses to accept the fact that the system that is running right now is really near Blizzlike and it shouldn't be changed since Warmane is a Blizzlike server.

Let's face it. The PvP scene on DW/Rag is very stale at the moment and in my opinion this is largely due to the vast discrepancy between players queueing.

No. It's not only PvP. PvE is dead as it is until the merge since most of the players are waiting for the merge (Icecrown) to pop in order to come back. Your point is only opening doors for more people to be "lazy" (using that expression here - Can't think of another proper word to apply there) and not actually learn their classes in order to achieve higher grounds. But my discussion here is done since I hate to repeat myself over and over and that's all I've been doing in the last posts with different words. If you truly believe that you're holding an idea that would turn the PvP scenario upside down (for the better) go ahead and present your idea to the responsibles for the development.