pvp dps- dk or ret pala?why?

[bucko25]

hi...just wanna ask for an advice about those 2 dps classes...i want to try something new..and we all know Warmane and buggs...also i have never played this classes before so dunno almost nothing about them....advices and tips would be nice....
tnx in advance ppl

[MrCaddylaqq]

I suggest you, playing a ret. It is fun at it synergizez well with Hunter/ feral/enhancement comps. U have a lot of survability and big dmg but only while bursting.
To be more explicit.
-Rets are a support class. You can't just play them as u would've play a warrior. U have to protect your arena partner by healing him, getting ccs off of him and Supporting with your burst once every 2 mins.

-Dk. Well they are actually pretty fun to play. Played corectly they do have massive burst and survability. Also like warriors, pain in the *** for healers and casters. Its like a death warrior. Some would disagree but trust me its alike the war playstyle.

Now u gotta chose the class that fits u the most. For example i started playing a paladin in cata. I got high rated but i dunno it wasn't for me... so i came back to my warrior, which i playes since tbc and i never wanted to reroll.
Do the same. Find the class that fits YOU and also Your playstyle. If u are more into a class, like i do, try to be inspired by the lore of the class aswell.

Thats all i got.
PS; both are great classes like every single class in wow, but playstyles are diferent. Also the roles.
Cheers!

[thekingh14]

i thik ret is a bit better ... frost dk is kinda bad ulike unholy and ret

[ANDIRAGO]

I've played WoW for an almost long time and mostly DK, so can tell you that Frost DK doesn't work well in PvP tho it's sometimes better in BGs but overall Unholy DK is better than Frost in PvP. as for Ret pala, I played Ret for a short time but as the guys said above it's a support class so you gotta take care of your allies and heal them (that's why i don't like it)...

Frost DK has powerful burst and can use it each minute but a kite or disarm can **** it. Unholy DK has good damage over time and also a good burst each 3 minutes. Ret pala has a great burst but the damage out of burst is a bit bad. Frost DK is easy to learn, UDK is a bit harder to learn. the choice is yours, play the one that you like more and find comfortable.

@MrCaddylaqq, Unholy DK playstyle is not really like Warrior cause 1. UDK is half melee and half magic but warrior is full melee, 2. DK pulls the target and warrior charges to target and has heroic leap too so you can see warrior has some better mobility and DK has better kiting, there are lots of other differences.

[MrCaddylaqq]

I've played WoW for an almost long time and mostly DK, so can tell you that Frost DK doesn't work well in PvP tho it's sometimes better in BGs but overall Unholy DK is better than Frost in PvP. as for Ret pala, I played Ret for a short time but as the guys said above it's a support

@MrCaddylaqq, Unholy DK playstyle is not really like Warrior cause 1. UDK is half melee and half magic but warrior is full melee, 2. DK pulls the target and warrior charges to target and has heroic leap too so you can see warrior has some better mobility and DK has better kiting, there are lots of other differences.

I completly agree with u, but in my defence i said that it is almost alike a war.

[Nasty]

ok so ret vs dk. ret is better if ur lazy, don't wanna learn much. u still need to learn to be really good, but a bad ret will play ret better then a bad dk plays dk :P as for specs, unholy with skill is better then frost and ret in 2v2.

playstyle, ret is about keeping up pressure while supporting ur partner and timing ur burst cd's with ur partner while making sure u both have sufficient cc available to keep ur focus target from helping his partner. uh dk is pretty much exactly the same, but does more pressure, and less support. all classes have the same general goal, keep up pressure til ur ready to burst and have cc available, try n score a kill, if it don't work rinse n repeat. watch a few videos with rets and dk's on youtube at high rating and see how they accomplish this, play the one that looks most fun :)

note, it seems that a lot of uh dk bugs that made them suck before are fixed now [not 100% certain on this though] so i'll be dusting off my dk myself :)

[-Notorious-]

In terms of arenas...

The gameplay of an unholy death knight is pressure. Their role is to keep diseases up and provide pressure while using necrotic strikes + soul reaper to score some kills (ideally). Unfortunately, a warrior does all of that and much more. Some of the best comps for unholy dks are with a healer. However a warrior/healer comp is generally far superior as well as easier to play (warriors being the easiest class to learn, and being MUCH easier than unholy).

As such, I wouldn't recommend playing unholy unless you have an attachment to the spec.

Frost DKs provide a different gameplay in that they are based around a heavy burst. In this perspective they are similar to Ret Pallies. However, similar to Unholy, a ret pally can do what a Frost DK does, but do it much better.

This can all be seen by taking a look at the ladder. You will see the top consists heavily of healer comps, and the only physical damage classes are hunters and warriors. DK's are rare to find (first DK is at rank 48, and is in fact the only DK there), whereas Ret Paladins are a bit more common (I think I see 3-4).

I disagree with those saying that Rets are an easy class to play in MoP. I feel their skill curve has gotten much steeper, and they require a lot of practise to play well. Any paladin that opens with his burst is likely going to sit in a cyclone/trap/hex.

In terms of simplicity of class, going from simple to hard I would say:
Frost DK < Ret Pally < Unholy DK.

It's POSSIBLE that once we are full prideful and double dps comps become more viable, we will see vanguard make a return, but even so, warriors are going to be better than both these classes for this expansion.

Hope that helps!

[Nasty]

i do agree with u notorious that frost dk is easier then ret pala :P but still think ret is simple xD but our ladder doesn't mean warrs are best, just means there aren't very many good players of the other classes :D i dunno about EU bracket, but in 2's on US, uh dk and healer was the r1 team. i think the healer was mw monk or rdruid, pretty sure it was monk tho

[SaphedaSera]

DK+DK is viable since they can heal each other. Unholy+Feral is surprisingly effective. I don't think there is any Ret combo that is really viable in 2s ratings wise, they do better in 3s or 5s.

[Pallzdani]

If you don't mind only being able to play with a hunter in 3's (if you want to go high ofc) then by all means play Ret.

[Torcida1950]

i do agree with u notorious that frost dk is easier then ret pala :P but still think ret is simple xD but our ladder doesn't mean warrs are best, just means there aren't very many good players of the other classes :D i dunno about EU bracket, but in 2's on US, uh dk and healer was the r1 team. i think the healer was mw monk or rdruid, pretty sure it was monk tho

Basic mechanics of ret are quite easy to learn, I agree. But to play ret on MoP is not so easy at all. I still love the class, it is really fun to play once u learn to balance your self and burst right, but unlike WOTLK and Cata where ret was extremely easy and quite OP, it's not the case here. In fact, till this day, I saw very few players that actually burst correctly on ret., and that's the main reason why most of the ppl spit on it saying it is bad when actually it's them that do not know how to play it. They just compare it to previous expansions and think it's all about wings, but here it is not.

In regards to DK vs ret, well... I play both, among other classes, ofc., and contrary what some ppl would suggest, MoP expansion ****ed up DK's survivability so bad that, in my opinion, ret is better in every single way. In arenas, unholy is better than the Frost, but on the other hand, Frost is really fun to play in BG.

Now to conclude, neither Ret or DK will get you on top of the ladder in Arenas, as they obviously have limitations, but again, from my experience, if you master them, you can get up to 2.2 rating with no problem. Everything above that is, well... maybe little, but, good luck...

[-Notorious-]

DK+DK is viable since they can heal each other. Unholy+Feral is surprisingly effective. I don't think there is any Ret combo that is really viable in 2s ratings wise, they do better in 3s or 5s.

I hope that DK+DK is a joke... The only MMR that would work at is 1400 (and even then will probably fail). Meanwhile Hunter/Ret has gotten quite a few people in the top 100, and there's more Rets in the top 100 than there are DKs.

If you don't mind only being able to play with a hunter in 3's (if you want to go high ofc) then by all means play Ret.

While Hunter/Ret might be good in 3s, I do believe with full prideful WW Monk/Ret/Rsham could work in 3s. Still, I don't think DKs are any better suited for 3s than Ret Pallies, simply because warriors outshine both of them in both of their roles. Warriors have more pressure, and their burst isn't THAT far behind Ret Pallies.

It's really just a poorly balanced expansion, and Warriors are just simply stronger than both the other plater classes, and not even being the best Ret/DK in the world will change that fact.


Since I noticed I never actually recommended a class to OP: My recommendation is Ret Pallies if you only want to arena. They will fare better in both 2s and 3s (although they will still suck). You also have the option of going Holy, which is more viable than Ret.

If you plan on doing a lot of BGs however, than DKs are the way to go. Unholy DKs are one of the few (maybe only) class that can output as much damage in a BG as an affliction warlock, and can provide excellent kill options with necro strikes.

[SaphedaSera]

I hope that DK+DK is a joke... The only MMR that would work at is 1400 (and even then will probably fail). Meanwhile Hunter/Ret has gotten quite a few people in the top 100, and there's more Rets in the top 100 than there are DKs.

No, the combination was respected and feared in retail as they heal each other with the Lichborne talent. Teamwork and communication between partners is typically rudimentary for the most part which is why you get burst, burst, burst, ask questions later style play for the most part. For the most part here, people suck at interrupting burst to save their partner.

[-Notorious-]

No, the combination was respected and feared in retail as they heal each other with the Lichborne talent. Teamwork and communication between partners is typically rudimentary for the most part which is why you get burst, burst, burst, ask questions later style play for the most part. For the most part here, people suck at interrupting burst to save their partner.

Any healer comp would completely destroy a double dk team. It severely lacks CC and the few CC's it does have (stuns) share DRs. One of the DKs will sit in CC for the majority of the game, and the other is going to be eaten alive by a warrior/hunter. Cyclone during lichborne and the game ends. I don't think anyone over 1500 would tremble seeing a double DK as their opposing team, specially with the majority playing healer/dps comps.

[SaphedaSera]

Any healer comp would completely destroy a double dk team. It severely lacks CC and the few CC's it does have (stuns) share DRs. One of the DKs will sit in CC for the majority of the game, and the other is going to be eaten alive by a warrior/hunter. Cyclone during lichborne and the game ends. I don't think anyone over 1500 would tremble seeing a double DK as their opposing team, specially with the majority playing healer/dps comps.

It's a high skill cap class. Highly skilled unholy DKs have no problems soloing healers with extra abilities to ignore CC. As I said previously the combo was played successfully at high ratings and could be here.

PS. I've seen one or two unholys that play like a boss and own warriors assuming no latency issues, but they are not so high in number. They likely can beat hunters often enough as well assuming the hunter doesn't start out at max range.

And...your statement about X number of Retribution in top 100 was flubbed. There is exactly 1 DK and 1 Ret in the top 50 and no else in the top 100. The rest of the Paladins are geared for Holy spec.