Does anyone have a good talent spec using Libram of Valiance as BiS relic?
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Member
Libram of Valiance as BiS
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Member
Choosing the optimal Libram depends on the encounter and not on your talents.
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Banned
For the vast majority of situations Valiance will be your BiS.
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Member
Thanks Selaya
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Member
No offense, but when most EJ specs have seal of command and pursuit of justice included in their talent specs, I doubt the effficiency of these builds. That's why I was asking. I don't want to spec useless talents when those points could be spent better in other places.
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Member
PoJ a useless talent? Interesting view point. Care to elaborate on it?
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Member
Yeah I wanna hear this too.
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Member
I don't recall ever being disarmed in ICC and I can stay out of fire.
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Member
I've said this many many times before, and I'll say it again. There is no such thing as a "tank BiS". Every single piece of a tank's gear is an option. There are options that are better for specific situations, in certain groups, on a specific boss encounter. These options change and vary so much that trying to use a "BiS" list as if you would a DPS or a Healer is simply not possible, and trying to do so is very short-sighted and/or foolish.
Half true. While the optimal libram choice does depend on circumstance, there is enough of a variance in talents (when combined with the strengths or weaknesses of the group you're in) to make one libram more or less valuable. For example, if you're built into a fair amount of threat-generation talents, the threat aspect of librams at your disposal become less attractive because they are not as necessary.
Unlike trinkets, librams can also be switched during combat. Which means you can switch them out as necessary. For example, Libram of the Sacred Shield will be far superior to any other libram if you are tanking the adds during p1 or during transition phases on Lich King. Outside of those phases, the libram loses its strength.
Of course, that's an advanced approach to the issue. If you're just learning to tank and looking for the libram that would probably suit you best, Libram of Valiance is pretty decent all-purpose libram. Just keep in mind that its usefulness does, in fact, vary against other librams depending on circumstance, and that you should probably invest time into learning about that at some point in the future. Perhaps when you feel you are experienced enough to venture there.
They aren't useless. Not at all. They are subject to preference, though. If you feel you can get out of fire quickly enough, then by all means, don't spec into Pursuit of Justice. Feel free to not use the movement speed boots enchant either. These things are intended to be options, to allow a person to choose what they want, and what they feel best suits them. This is something a lot of people lose sight of.
Also, Seal of Command's use is limited to instant cleave threat. Nothing more. It loses out to Seal of Vengeance/Corruption for sustained cleave threat (tab targeting + Hammer of the Righteous applies it), and it loses out to Seal of Righteousness to single-target up-front burst damage (mainly via the Judgment). So, it can be useful if you need to immediately get threat on multiple targets. It's not useful when you either have someone sending you the mobs via misdirection/tricks of the trade, or if there's nobody trying to rip threat off you on those targets.
The usefulness of (some) talents follows suit with the so-called "tank BiS lists". You can make an all-purpose, general-use talent setup and gear setup, but rarely will it ever be perfectly optimal for more than just a handful of boss encounters at a time.
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Member
Neither do I. Being disarmed ain't the point of the talent. Running away from fires and the like is only a slight bonus to survivability. The real reason why you pick it up is because most fights involve some kind of movement. To be more specific, movement where you're not in melee range of the boss (after fear on BQL, killing adds on LDW or being MC'ed there, PP basically the entire ****ing fight, BPC while changing targets, a very large portion of LK [NP, defiles, chaning from val'kyr to lk or to another val'kyr], sindra tomb movements, halion debuff dispels).
I'm neglecting GSB and VDW fights completely. The switches you're surely going to make on the other fights will have a big impact on your dps. Going faster = less downtime on the boss.
P.S. Even if you skip both PoJ and SoC the only other talent choices you have will be:
A) Divinity
B) Divine Intellect
C) Vindication (which can be taken either way, w/o gimping yourself with no movementspeed bonus)
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Banned
Wait what is this a Ret or a Prot discussion
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Member
I was talking about ret primarily though I might spec prot down the line, sorry should have specified, also hadn't thought about bosses running away though I'm not sure if it's enough to justify PoJ. I'll take a look at a talent calculator later and come up with something, thanks for opinions.
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Banned
As a Ret there is little reason to use anything else than Valiance (3T overtake without destacking occurs at about 180 secs, and any bossfight at or above that duration has some mechanic that makes destacking very likely), you can macro the Libram swap into your Seal swap but quite honestly the only encounter where you would gain something from doing so (notwithstanding the double Librambuff glitch) is VDW which honestly matters not. Any other bossfight, you shouldn`t be using SoC for longer than 30 secs which is how long your Valiance should keep proccing (give or take) after stopping SoV usage.
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Banned
And what makes you a good tank is exactly this: The perfect positioning and capability of reading the raid development as it is. I've never used PoJ as a Protection Paladin and I've always found myself in the right spot in the right timing. Tanking "reflexes" are a thing that people overlook. Raid vision and capability to properly analyze a raid are actually a thing. If someone messes up (example: Placement of a bad Defile) you have time to get out of it and place yourself in a better position. Just because you're going to spare an extra second that means you're going to be the game turner right there? No. Specially because, most likely, you'll have other people bouncing in that same Defile and compromising the raid with those actions.
If other classes are able to do the fights properly without movement speed increases why do you have to be "special"?
If you really don't feel secure about your positioning - Please be my guest and use those talents. If you really know what you're doing and if you're really an experienced tank you shouldn't need such a thing.
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Member
Nobody was talking about tanking.
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