1. Short answer on previous two q is that it depends on a fight and boss mechanic.

  2. Thanks for the guide, its detailed and easy to grasp.

  3. Thanks for the guide. Are you able to export your weak aura strings and include in the guide? I dont want to be a lazy rogue and copy your whole UI :)

  4. When would I switch to Instant/deadly Poison? i just got my first point in Improve poison. Do i want to wait till 4/5?

  5. Let's imagine that we have 2 bis rogues(2 t10 items). with 2 diffrent combat specs
    1 spec is full evic (with 3tals in evi and 2tals in ruthlessness)
    2nd spec is 'low rupture' (with 3 tlas in evi and 2 tals in Blood Spatter and 0 tals in ruthlessness)
    Which one do more dmg in icc 25hc? Is it worth it to use low rupture(we use evic+rupture in that way) spec for little bit more dmg than only evis one?

  6. i d run the rapture spec with 4 t10 bonus, and use rapture only if you have slice at more then 12 sec and and you think you have time to put rapture in 5 cp and refresh it (but never clip it) you can let if fall for few secounds, is not a real dps loss but i think bouth do kind of the same damage

  7. You can find all this info in guide... Just try both 2p set and 4p set build with full evi and full rupture talents and choose what you like more cuz its all about rng luck

  8. One of my old guild mates who was the best rogue I ever saw said it depends if you have a feral druid or not with you.
    Feral druid = 30% more bleed damage from mangle which greatly improves the damage from rupture, if you don't have a feral druid go Evicirate all the way.

  9. Why Vile and Improved 1/3 - 4/5 ?

  10. Why Vile and Improved 1/3 - 4/5 ?
    Because people have tested this out in the past.
    Dropping improved under 4 points is a dps loss, your other alternative is going 0/3 and 5/5. I'm fairly certain it's written somewhere in the guide, all you have to do is read it.

  11. Also simulating on full bis gear with a few personal touches,tott trading, heroism+double pot on a 150 second fight (which is your average ICC boss) will lend you the following results:

    0/5 - 20680 DPS
    1/4 - 20693 DPS
    2/3 - 19407 DPS
    3/2 - 19493 DPS

    Results aren't 100% accurate but they help you form a general idea.

  12. Also simulating on full bis gear with a few personal touches,tott trading, heroism+double pot on a 150 second fight (which is your average ICC boss) will lend you the following results:

    0/5 - 20680 DPS
    1/4 - 20693 DPS
    2/3 - 19407 DPS
    3/2 - 19493 DPS

    Results aren't 100% accurate but they help you form a general idea.
    Thanks a lot!

  13. @FluffyBuffy

    Expanding on a bit of your guide about Crit and Haste/AP build in light of my experience:

    As I still did not get either DBW or STS I gave up on trying to cap/soft cap ArmPen. I instead got a WFS with the Herkuml and started stacking and preferring Agility/Haste gems and Haste/Crit gear. I got very close to the crit cap and, while waiting for DBW/STS drop, I must say that I'm pulling off a very healthy 11k+ dps, which I think is competitive with my gear score (keep in mind this is a budget build, to be compared with the Needle build and absolutely doesn't stand a chance to ArmPen hardcap build). The main difference I found is that my DPS does not fluctuate as much as it did when I had NES and ArmP softcapped. The reason for that, I think, is that I'm not gated behind the hardcap window NES allowed for, while Crit cap build allows a smoother DPS by essentially sacrificing the huge spikes of DPS the usual softcap build offers. Granted, I still have to push all the buttons when WFK & Zerg proc, and DPS still spikes at that point, but the base damage is definitely a bit higher than the softcap build. Which leads to my next point:

    This build is much easier to accomplish, avoiding the need to win the highly contested trinkets essential for hardcapping ArmP, but it's not really meant for the ultra late game content where opportunities to deal damage are shorter and unforgiving (thinking ICCHC), where a short huge burst is much more valuable than sustained dps (in most fights, at least). I think we can all agree that NES build is a dead end and DBW/STS is the only way to reach full potential, but the transition between NES and DBW/STS is more of a bump than a transition, and this build accounts just for that grey area where you could be stronger than softcap build but do not have access to hardcap build.

    This is my armory if you care to take a look: http://armory.warmane.com/character/...daeron/summary
    Of course build is unpolished and could be much more consistent, but that's the best I could put together. I would very much appreciate your input on where to go from here keeping in mind that getting that DBW/STS is a matter of time rather than choice, also I'm interested in expanding the pre-BIS builds if you are still inclined in including them in your guide so let me know about that and I'll put together one.

  14. @FluffyBuffy

    Expanding on a bit of your guide about Crit and Haste/AP build in light of my experience:

    As I still did not get either DBW or STS I gave up on trying to cap/soft cap ArmPen. I instead got a WFS with the Herkuml and started stacking and preferring Agility/Haste gems and Haste/Crit gear. I got very close to the crit cap and, while waiting for DBW/STS drop, I must say that I'm pulling off a very healthy 11k+ dps, which I think is competitive with my gear score (keep in mind this is a budget build, to be compared with the Needle build and absolutely doesn't stand a chance to ArmPen hardcap build). The main difference I found is that my DPS does not fluctuate as much as it did when I had NES and ArmP softcapped. The reason for that, I think, is that I'm not gated behind the hardcap window NES allowed for, while Crit cap build allows a smoother DPS by essentially sacrificing the huge spikes of DPS the usual softcap build offers. Granted, I still have to push all the buttons when WFK & Zerg proc, and DPS still spikes at that point, but the base damage is definitely a bit higher than the softcap build. Which leads to my next point:

    This build is much easier to accomplish, avoiding the need to win the highly contested trinkets essential for hardcapping ArmP, but it's not really meant for the ultra late game content where opportunities to deal damage are shorter and unforgiving (thinking ICCHC), where a short huge burst is much more valuable than sustained dps (in most fights, at least). I think we can all agree that NES build is a dead end and DBW/STS is the only way to reach full potential, but the transition between NES and DBW/STS is more of a bump than a transition, and this build accounts just for that grey area where you could be stronger than softcap build but do not have access to hardcap build.

    This is my armory if you care to take a look: http://armory.warmane.com/character/...daeron/summary
    Of course build is unpolished and could be much more consistent, but that's the best I could put together. I would very much appreciate your input on where to go from here keeping in mind that getting that DBW/STS is a matter of time rather than choice, also I'm interested in expanding the pre-BIS builds if you are still inclined in including them in your guide so let me know about that and I'll put together one.
    I wouldn't recommend going full agility with your gear, that build just makes you understand how important / good crit cap is for the spec (I tested this build too).

    I would keep crit around 58% or 59% and going more arpen, while keeping haste around 10 - 11%. Imo this is the best combo possible when you have those trinkets since you try to focus on having more procs from talents and more white damage overall.

    Also recommend using the spreadsheet to test this (make sure agi is not marked to have the same value as arpen, otherwise your brain might have a bad time understanding what the hell is going on)

  15. I wouldn't recommend going full agility with your gear, that build just makes you understand how important / good crit cap is for the spec (I tested this build too).

    I would keep crit around 58% or 59% and going more arpen, while keeping haste around 10 - 11%. Imo this is the best combo possible when you have those trinkets since you try to focus on having more procs from talents and more white damage overall.

    Also recommend using the spreadsheet to test this (make sure agi is not marked to have the same value as arpen, otherwise your brain might have a bad time understanding what the hell is going on)
    I agree, there's no need to force white crit cap.

    However, his build does not want nor scales well with ArmPen, it stands as an alternative stronger than SoftCap build and of course weaker than HardCap ArmPen. ArmPen is a commitment because it scales exponentially. Either you go for it and stall with NES while waiting upgrade for hardcap, or you... don't. Get white crit cap then start pushing Haste, instead. I tried just that and it's working quite good and for a patch where DBW/STS are highly contested while the average player is not exactly guaranteed to even have a chance to see it on a weekly basis (on Lordareon). Crit cap build is literally the best you could get at that point and maybe it needs to be sorted out

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