WotLK [Guide] Combat Rogue - The top kek DPS, In depth guide

[Fmtansei]

I have a question. On other specs like fury warrior and frost death knight, it's better to gem strength instead of arpen when you dont have much arpen from gear. Does this also apply for combat rogue? Should I gem agi until I hit a certain arpen treshold from gear alone and then switch gems to arpen or should i go for apren from the start?

not true, 1st- warriors hit arp cap, the reason they dont gem full arp is because they cap faster because of gear, 2nd- dk's work different with stats because their ghoul benefits from their stats, which strength benefits their ghoul, and dk statweights strength, this doesnt mean arp is useless for dk's, they do have arp pieces and some arp to them

[Fmtansei]

Also, thoughts on going stealth mid fight to do Garrote? Think the DPE is worth it compared to SS?

1st off- no.
2nd off- read garrote tooltip :')

[Fmtansei]

Hey, I was wondering what you guys think about 20 haste gems for yellows. Aldriana's spreadsheets reccomend them for me in pretty much any socket, yet this guide which I feel is a bit more recent and more in tune with our server reccomends agi+crit or hit gems and doesn't even mention haste gems.

Is haste overvalued in the simulator? Is it a very minor difference? My rogue is pretty far off from the crit cap, so much so that not even DBW caps me, so I'd be pretty stoked if regemming could net me a real damage increase.

yellows are all about the same, minor difference in the end, go with whatever you want tbh, people tested every single yellow possibility (hit, split gems, haste, crit, etc) and all do the same, go with whatever you want for yellows as long as u have ur caps

[SilverFlash]

will you update your talent links?? they are broken

Eviscerate H&S build: https://wotlkdb.com/?talent#fhg00tLZMgVo0cxqru0xRt:khN
Rupture H&S build: https://wotlkdb.com/?talent#f0eb0tLZMgVo0cxqru0xRt:hN

Glyphs etc are explained in the guide.

[AstridRogue]

What is crit cap?"

"When we use the term critical strike cap (hereon referred to as "crit cap") we are actually referring to one of several crit caps the Rogue has. The one that interests us the most is the white crit cap, which is the point when white hits no longer benefit from additional crit. This means that the value of crit is severely reduced relative to other stats."
TL;DR: Crit cap is when your critical strike rating starts to become worthless for auto attacks

Knowing how to deal with the crit cap is one of the many things that separates a newbish rogue versus the good one. Be it with gear, gems or even consumables.

So how do I know my crit cap?
Well it's just a simple formula: 100% - 24%(Glancing hits) - X(Dodge chance) - X(Miss chance) +4.8% CRIT SUPPRESSION
You may as-well use this macro ingame. It'll print out your crit cap:(It assumes you got 2/2 Weapon expertise and 5/5 Precision)
/script DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage ("White Crit Cap: "..(0.808-(math.max(136-GetCombatRating(24),0))*0.000305-(722-GetCombatRating(6))*0.000305)*100)



CRIT SUPPRESION: Every boss has a 4.8% crit suppression meaning that the actual HARD CRIT CAP is not 100% but actually 104.8%. If you're a rogue did you ever wonder where did the 3% paladin crit debuff get lost? Exacly it gets lost here.

As we can see having low hit rating and expertise does effect our DPS in a big way. As far as I could see most of Warmane bis combat rogues got around 55% crit cap. My rogue will rekk the rogue that has tons of crit but their crit is being worthless due to the crit cap.

That's why I always said: Hit rating is useful, always was and always will be on a rogue. It's a stat above all others as it affects your effective critical chance, talent procs and poison procs.

Macro shows your crit cap, that you need to have with your own or with all raid buffs*?

[Persivaln]

It shows total crit cap. Not your "current" stat, but one that you need to aim for. With expertise cap and (for example) hit cap of 27% for dual wielding, you'll end aiming to have 80.8% crit cap for white attacks.

[AstridRogue]

It shows total crit cap. Not your "current" stat, but one that you need to aim for. With expertise cap and (for example) hit cap of 27% for dual wielding, you'll end aiming to have 80.8% crit cap for white attacks.

So, this macro shows me my goal of White Crt cap, that I need to reach with all possible ways in raid group? Not my own/
For example - macro shows 68.22 White crit cap - that means, that in the raid group my crit must have this number with all buffs.
Am I right ?

[Persivaln]

Not exactly so. It is you crit cap with your current stats of expertise and hit. For example my enha have crit cap of 71.995 crit with and 70.796 without 38 hit from Wodin's necklace, while having 51% from gear alone. It means i need 20% more crit for each my white hit on boss to be critical. It means you actualy need more crit with high amount of hit, cuz your crit rate will not cover all attacks that have hitted your target. But at high gear level, when you will be over capped with crit, it might be useful to gem hit so that your stats will not be wasted.

[AstridRogue]

Not exactly so. It is you crit cap with your current stats of expertise and hit. For example my enha have crit cap of 71.995 crit with and 70.796 without 38 hit from Wodin's necklace, while having 51% from gear alone. It means i need 20% more crit for each my white hit on boss to be critical. It means you actualy need more crit with high amount of hit, cuz your crit rate will not cover all attacks that have hitted your target. But at high gear level, when you will be over capped with crit, it might be useful to gem hit so that your stats will not be wasted.

1. I am rogue
2. I have 26/26 Exp, 312 Hit
3. Macro shows me White crit cap 68.2645

I just want to know this situation - I need to have this number unbuff (by my own)? or with all possible raid + race buffs? Thats is

[Persivaln]

Shortly - yes, this formula result is exact crit chance that you need to have for crit cap (value over which stat becomes inefficient). But you'll have to adjust it several times for sure due to how it interacts with your hit.
And i've brought my shammy just as example to show how hit is changing your total crit cap.

[AstridRogue]

Shortly - yes, this formula result is exact crit chance that you need to have for crit cap (value over which stat becomes inefficient). But you'll have to adjust it several times for sure due to how it interacts with your hit.
And i've brought my shammy just as example to show how hit is changing your total crit cap.

Ty for answer!

But there is another question... Poisons = magic, and Agility doesn't give it crit chance. Is it so ?

[MyAgiDhan]

As a rogue player I could also add, that people should also learn about Energy Management/Pooling:
"What is Energy management(EM)/Energy pooling(EP)?:
EM is one of the things that separates a good rogue from a bad one. The simple philosophy behind EM is that energy is an "unending" resource that keeps on flowing and you waste and gain it via usage of abilities and tallents. That being said, you should understand when to waste your energy and when to keep it. The general rule of thumb is to keep your energy as close to 80% as possible, seconds before your Trinket(STS; DBW; any other AP boost trinkets) procs/ Weapon enchant procs and Ring proc. You could lose nothing, but only gain. Same goes for your finishing moves - if you have the option to save your Combo Points right before Trinket procs, without overflowing on energy, do so. The damage you could gain wouldn't be tremendous, but it's not small.
more energy on trinket procs = more energy to waste your SS/finishing moves on = more damage gain. Or else being said, don't spam your Abilities 24/7 which will result to always be low on energy.
Same goes for Tricks of the Trade [when trading with another rogue]. I personally go for TotT glyph and trade it with my rogue partner on CD(save some energy for when you have the tott buff).
And this also applies for the usage of Killing Spree. You could either use it on CD(depending on the usual fight duration, which you can simply track with an approximate calculus time addons), or wait for your trinket/tott procs to use it."

Also can add list of items people could use during boss fights:

"Items you could/should use durin boss fights for extra minmaxing.

:Thistle Tea(when starving on energy for SnD refresh/ Ability Spam on Trinket procs/ FoK for adds on Halion);

Goblin Sapper Chargers/Saronite bombs(for group of adds: ICC trash/ Lady Deathwisper/ Halion 25hc adds spawn);

Immolation Oil: Same as Goblin Sapper Chargers/Saronite bombs;

Boggling Root[(obtained via quest adds spawn at low level zone) increase physical damage done by 1] its's also a not must to have consumable;

Personal food usage(it's a must or not, depending on the race you play with) as Hearty Rhino(increases arp by 40);

Potions of Speed[(You could use up to 3 potions of speed at a normal speed kill timers during boss fights) Pre-pott > 2nd pot > Vanish pot];

Flask of Endless Rage;

Gnomish Battle Chicken[(increase attack speed by 5% if procced, that results into ~2-3% damage increase for CRogues during the fight) used 30seconds before a boss fight, usually it's used at bosses with a RP, such as: DBS and Lich King)]
Disclaimer: never use Battle Chicken on dragon bosses such as Halion and Sindi, because it may parry haste = dead tank = wipe."

And also could add a neat disclamer for when bissed and have JC.
Use 34 hit on fast OH and in case you use a Havoc for weapon switch(which you should do, for groups of adds; Lady, RS25hc, groups of trash in random dungeons; raids), put in a 34 arp on it so you basically almost lose no arp when weapon switching to two Havocs. I've never seen anyone doing this and to be quite honest, it's strange. People rather use Havoc and BVhc instead, while it's totally managable with two Havocs instead, therefore resulting into damage increase.

[c4ctus]

Hey fluffyinsect, amazing guide, I was a new player when I started, I chose rogue only cos of your amazing detailed explanation of everything.

I have few questions though:

1. Would it be terrible to remove the Expertise gems, meaning I stay with 22 expertise (getting it only from Ikfirus and talent)? Dodging or parrying once or twice in a raid when the boss suddenly moves couldn't be that bad now, or I am missing something else? Could you give a statistical explanation why 26 is a must?
2. Regarding rotation (I have 6380 GS, with 1400 ArPen and 48% Crit unbuffed), I use Eviscerate only cos I'm lazy to look after Rupture, I just pop it during Adrenaline Rush. Can you tell us the DPS difference in terms of percentage between an Eviscerate only rotation and Rupture rotation (Including choosing talents and glyphs for each spell)?
3. Once rogue gets to Hit>315, Expertise 26/26 and ArPen=1400, most of the rogues I see stack Hit. My logic is what if we stack haste, it means more hits more Instant Poison procs and also more energy regen from talent. Am I wrong?
Also, if haste is not needed isnt the haste from Sindy neck, Falinrush, GS cloak useless, given that we can have other items with Hit or Crit?
4. Consumables - What's worth more the 80 Attack Power + 46 Spell Power from fish or the 40 ArPen from hearty rhino (I have Arp Cap, I'm just thinking to swap some fractured cardinals with other gems and compensate the difference with hearty rhino).
5. What's your opinion on not using Potion of Speed and Flask of Endless Rage. These items are so overpriced, make you spend 2-3k gold in a single raid. Do you know the percentage difference in DPS, when using or not using them?
6. Regarding the Crit cap, I have read this section many times and I still don't quite get it. The formula you have given us, gives me a 70% number. What does this number mean? Is it the maximum amount of Crit I should have/stack? Or is is it the amount of bonus damage for the the hit once it crits, meaning if make a10000 hit, with crit i do another 7000 damage.

This is my armory. https://armory.warmane.com/character...ecrown/summary

Thanks in advance.

[denisridayouu]

Hello guys ! I have a quick query about my Main-hand, Right now on my main hand I'm equipped with Nighttime from FoS and the 1.50 axe from GS, I recently got Pugius Fist of Defiance from Lich King which is Fist weapon, my question is should I equip the fist and sacrifice Hack and Slash and get the fist talent until I get decent Axe/sword or should I go with the Nighttime ? Thanks for the time <3

[Dragonrider4444]

Hey i was just wondering which engi to pick. Goblin or gnomish? Thanks!