WotLK [Guide] Combat Rogue - The top kek DPS, In depth guide

[Gnimo]

If u equip a VDW 1.4 Dagger in offhand instead of Gunship Axe u lose 0.05 sec on ur offhand swing, which will basicly make every 15th an extra off hand swing (Axe: 0.74 vs Dagger: 0.69 attack speed).

http://wotlk.openwow.com/talent#f0eb0tLZMtV0bcxqru0xRt

Goin this talent build, at BIS ofc, u could with eaz maintain 100% uptime on both Rupture and S&D.
With Mongose on offhand, beeing up almost all the time, with that 2% extra hit on dagger, u could soft cap the offhand swings (65% raid buffed + 3% from ret + 2% from talents + 2.xx% from Mongose).

@Fluffybully, could this be a viable item build? I know u lose Hack and Slash on offhand swings, but u basicly trade 5% rng for 100% extra hit with 2% more chance on crit... Thats atleast how i see it. Maybe im wrong? :D

Edit: Also, why do u feel the need to cap expertise? From how i see it, since u get the energy back, both feral and rogue dont need that expertise cap, 22 should be fine enough... I know ur white swings miss and u dont get them back but its like 1-2% of overall hits. Thanks.

[Selaya]

the reason people h&s over cqc is crit cap

[Fluffybully]

If u equip a VDW 1.4 Dagger in offhand instead of Gunship Axe u lose 0.05 sec on ur offhand swing, which will basicly make every 15th an extra off hand swing (Axe: 0.74 vs Dagger: 0.69 attack speed).

http://wotlk.openwow.com/talent#f0eb0tLZMtV0bcxqru0xRt

Goin this talent build, at BIS ofc, u could with eaz maintain 100% uptime on both Rupture and S&D.
With Mongose on offhand, beeing up almost all the time, with that 2% extra hit on dagger, u could soft cap the offhand swings (65% raid buffed + 3% from ret + 2% from talents + 2.xx% from Mongose).

@Fluffybully, could this be a viable item build? I know u lose Hack and Slash on offhand swings, but u basicly trade 5% rng for 100% extra hit with 2% more chance on crit... Thats atleast how i see it. Maybe im wrong? :D

Edit: Also, why do u feel the need to cap expertise? From how i see it, since u get the energy back, both feral and rogue dont need that expertise cap, 22 should be fine enough... I know ur white swings miss and u dont get them back but its like 1-2% of overall hits. Thanks.

VDW dagger doesn't give 2% extra hit. And as sela said crit cap is the reason. Then you lose a lot of H&S hits from your OH(H&S hits deal dmg off MH wep).
For expertise combat rogues dun get back energy on missed abilities. That 1-2% can be a lot on 3+min fights.

So no you're wrong and dis build is wrong as well.

[Gnimo]

2% extra crit* My bad...

Didnt know that the hit from offhand procs the main hand dmg (H&S)... Whenever i look at recount to see rogue dmg done, it was always 150-450 dmg done by H&S, so i always tought its just an extra attack, from whatever attack/ability it proced from. Thanks. And i also didnt know that u can reach that soft crit cap, especialy if supression is working, dont u need arround 70-72% crit for that as a rogue?

If u miss an attack, or ur attack gets dodged/parryed, u dont lose energy, u lose it but u get it back instanty, u lose a GCD tho. Same goes for feral cat, and u can see something similar on DKs aswell. Whenever ur ability gets dodged u get a bit slower gcd than ussual and u get ur runes/runic power back by the end of that gcd so u can repeat that ability. For FDK u cant afford sometimes cos of the small window in which u have to pestilence to refresh diseases, but UHDK doesnt need expertise cos it can afford that 1 dodge per rotation since it has 1 free gcd rougly every 20sec...

[Fluffybully]

Firstly rogue =/= DK.

If u'd read my guide, u would know that the crit cap is 100-24-miss chance - dodge chance - 4,8(crit conversion to hit/miss)

Combat rogue doesn't gain energy back from missed, dodged, parried or blocked abilities. It's a thing that mutilate rogues have not combat ones.(Check talents and read them)
Getting a Sinister Strike dodged,missed or parried is actually a big deal when u play the rogue as I do. I go plenty of times on 1-2 Sinister Strike Slice and Dice so, if that one would be rip my dps would go rip real hard as i'd have SnD drop time.

[Gnimo]

Firstly, that was not my point, the point is that there is a similar interaction btwn the resources they use.

Secondly, I read what u said about the crit cap and i know how it works, u have almost the same explanation on wowwiki about it...

Its 100 + 4.8 (if u are fighting a boss, aka target that is 3 lvls higher than u) - 24 glancing - 21 hit - 6.5 dodge - 14 parry (if u are not standing behind the target) = X (the amount of hits u will do), if X is the same nuber as ur crit chance u are soft capped, meaning ur white hits wont ever do normal dmg.
If u cap expertise and stand behind the target and get 12% spell hit, which is arround 9.6% melee hit + 5% from talent end result will be:
100 + 4.8 - 24 - 6.4 = 74.4

I just missed a lot of attacks on a dummy as naked fresh lvl 80 rogue and i did lose only 5-10 energy per Sinister Strike which i basicly got back by the end of that GCD so u could say u dont lose any energy at all. Idk if its a bug or something but yea, its how it is. U could say that u get 80% of energy back if u miss an ability (finishing moves not included). And the talent u refered to in muti tree is only about finishing moves (Quick Recovery). I didnt just come here as a clueless mongol droping some random ****... But i guess it was wrong to pop a suggestion here, and simply ask if something else might work. God forbid.

Thank you for ur time, best of luck.

[Fluffybully]

27 hit :p. I know it's 104,8% the crit part. But The 4,8% crit gets ripped so u kinda shoulda count it as a minus. Like the ret +3% crit talent covers a bit of the crit depression/conversion.

U lose 20% of the energy. It doesn't look much but it's still something ya know.

And i dun mind suggestions lol

[jespe]

Expertise Fixed now u need 26/26

if im human using for example mace, i can end up with expertise like 29/26 or 31/26. What does it exatly means? do i have to have over 26 in both numbers or just with the first one? like 26/x or x/26 or 26/26?

sorry for confusing question ^^

[Fluffybully]

if im human using for example mace, i can end up with expertise like 29/26 or 31/26. What does it exatly means? do i have to have over 26 in both numbers or just with the first one? like 26/x or x/26 or 26/26?

sorry for confusing question ^^

26/26. 26 for main hand 26 for off hand. Having idk am 15/26 means your MH hits + special abilities'll have a chance to be dodged, while off hand hits won't be dodged.

[Stabshots]

Would you sacrifice 100 arp (arround 8%) from 98 back to 91% to use the 4x set bonus, or should keep going 2x set till i get more 277hc items?

[Fluffybully]

I wouldn't go 4set in your case. I think u lose around 4-5% DPS by dropping 7% arp.

[Stabshots]

So when its a good time for change from 2 set to 4set?

[Fluffybully]

So when its a good time for change from 2 set to 4set?

I'd say when u're more or less BiS.

[Fluffybully]

Update:
Regarding expertise. Atm u need more than 26/26 to be dodge capped. I don't know the exact numbers, but I do know that u need even more than 27/27, as I got dat much and am getting dodges now and then.

22/22 is a no-go for sure.

[Fluffybully]

Update:
Upvote those bugs if u want to deal more damage:

https://www.warmane.com/bugtracker/report/37168
https://www.warmane.com/bugtracker/report/37167
https://www.warmane.com/bugtracker/report/37151