How raids were ruined

[masterds1289]

That's not true there are heroic modes for raids ....

[hrodvitnir21]

There's hardmode Ulduar and 3drakes OS.

That's not the same thing.

That's not true there are heroic modes for raids ....

Not for the raids currently available.

I don't think you people understand how incredibly easy the current raids would be without these buffs.

[jrwh]

I'm in the same boat as OP.

When I got the itch to play WoW again (first time since WotLK retail 6-7 years ago), I did my research. I looked up a number of TBC realms because I had heard good things about that content and never experienced it on retail. None of the servers looked worthwhile after that one super-hyped server died, so I turned my attention to WotLK. I did my reading on reddit, on this very forum, and watched review videos on YouTube. I found Lordaeron.

I had no idea how much of a pain it would be to level 60-80 until I got there. Numerous outright broken quests, and numerous absurd drop rates on collection quests. My guess is that whoever coded drop rates on some of these quests pulled their data straight from wowhead, without accounting for the fact that said information is skewed by people not doing quests collecting data and therefore not getting quest drops. This is lazy. Killing 100-120 mobs to get 8-10 quest drops for a quest is not the way they were intended to be. If I hadn't already invested so much time to get to Outland and Northrend I probably wouldn't have bothered to continue. Leveling especially from 78-80 took about 2-3x as long as it should have because I kept having to abruptly abandon quest hubs when bugged quests didn't allow me to continue. Spending 30 minutes to do that spear the dragons quest on your way to Sons of Hodir because you keep falling to your death, then having to spirit rez because you can't ghost-fly back to your corpse? Yeah, that's fun...

I also had 0 clue that raiding would be tuned the way it is until I started...raiding. Again, if it hadn't taken almost 200 hours of played time to get to 80, I'm not sure I would bother to continue trying to raid in its current state. I did plenty of research and reading, and I guess I didn't dive deep enough. It's not like there's a stickied thread anywhere making it clear what to expect at the endgame (broken quests, broken raid encounters, absurdly tuned raids). It's not the idea itself of making raids more difficult, but the lazy way in which it was done. Just blanket buffing health and damage by 200-300% has different effects on different mobs depending on the mechanics. Patchwerk? It just takes a little longer to kill. Maexnna? I finally killed it on 10m with a 4.7k BiS geared prot pally tank, and we still wiped several times before RNG got us through the soft enrage web spray without him getting 2-shotted.

The point of any video game is that it be fun. Raid content in its current state is not particularly fun, and it's not a "l2p" issue. Even if you're the best PVEr in the world, you can't carry 9-24 other people through a raid if they aren't also perfect (and nobody is). As it stands right now, raiding is doable, but not particularly fun for the majority of the player base. You can't get to Loatheb without a Warlock to summon because there are invisible mobs that kill you in the gauntlet leading up to it. This should be a priority fix. Archavon has been M.I.A. for what, two weeks now? This should be a priority fix. Beyond that, raid mobs need to be looked at on an individual basis to determine how much buffage is appropriate to make the encounter difficult, but not nearly impossible. To raid in the current state you need to almost not even need upgrades from the raid you're doing, which defeats that main purpose of raiding for most people - to get upgrades. It's fundamentally flawed.

I'm reasonably certain that one or more of the decision makers on this server have consciously decided to not include heirlooms (I guess we just buy frozen orbs with our excess emblems now if we don't need any more gear from it?) and make the barrier to entry on raiding artificially high to encourage more people to buy alts and gear with coins. The problem is that this has clearly driven players away from the server (there was almost always a queue when I started, but now?). I personally have no way of knowing if having fewer people spending more coins is bringing more income to the server than having more people spending fewer coins, but I suspect if the latter was more lucrative then we'd see things like broken quests being fixed more often (like the ones that lead to a mandatory rep grind), emblem/honor heirlooms being implemented, and raids being tuned more appropriately for the general populace.

I hope that I'm wrong, and that the primary focus of the server is to make it as fun as possible and thus bring in as many players as possible, as opposed to bringing in as much money as possible albeit from fewer players. There are many great things about the server. BGs are great (they would be better if there was a higher population), and dungeons are great (most people will not exclude you based on GS if you tell them you are a fresh 80 and will do your best to contribute with what you have). The relatively small presence of P2W is great (my understanding is you can buy a BiS trinket with coins, and probably also sell them to buy Ulduar BoEs, Ulduar crafted gear, valor bracers, etc, but it's not like you can buy Shadowmourne).

In order for the server to be as fun as possible for as many people as possible, and thus increase the population (higher pop = more fun also), raid mob buffs need to be handled on an indivudual as opposed to blanket basis, the most glaring bugs need to be fixed yesterday (Archavon, other raid bugs, important quest chains), and heirlooms need to be implemented so players have an incentive to continue farming emblems/honor and the desire to level alts.

I apologize for the tone of this post being mostly negative, but I don't really need to call attention to things that are done well, and therefore don't need to be changed. This is a good server. It could be better. Cheers.

[Hellrider2]

The ICC and TOC 25 heroic raids wont be killable with 200-300% boost, experienced guilds barely made it due to enrage timers (many kills of Lich hc 25 were so close even in later phases of the game). The same goes for anub 25hc etc. So frankly, this is not a perfect way how to make raids hard. Like jrwh said in a post above, the bosses should be tuned and checked one by one and not with a global buff.

I dont understand what is "funny" to be 10mins on one boss doing and repeating the same, when you are supposed to be doing it for 3mins. Moreover, this way you are not and wont be able to complete any achievements from the pve section, which was, actually, the funny thing in wotlk.

Also, the ammount of broken quests is astonishing, many broken quests in Borean tundra, dragonblight, terokarr forest etc, which most likely require only a small amount of time to fix them. On the other hand, some other quests are working fine.

The server stability is superb and thats one big plus.

[klihianse2]

[awesomness98760]

i haven't played here since this was Molten and all the characters were lost and I was thinking of coming back in WoTLK.. I don't have as much time to play as I used to and was originally planning on joining Lord, but after seeing all of this... is it even worth it to join on Lord?
I am asking seriously, so feel free to answer...
I enjoy a challenge and I always play classes that I know, but i simply won't have the time to take 6 hour raid runs for 3 days in a row if that is the case as people are making it seem on the forum.

[skierdudea]

There are a few things I feel I need to emphasize.

1. I am not entitled for requesting changes to the server. It's not as if I am offended that I am not being treated with a free blizzlike server. I am giving critcism, critiquing, and recommending change for the server - and then defending my arguments. One can request changes without being entitled.

2. Icecrown is hardly an alternative for those of us who want a WotLK blizzlike server. The economy is completely out-of-wack, the PVE scene is entirely focused around ICC, and the majority of players already have top of the line gear (with many having full Heroic 25 man gear already). For those of us who would like a progressive WotLK experience like Warmane but with blizzlike PVE, Icecrown is not the answer.

3. You all have to understand that although those of you who were regulars on Warmane before Lordaeron likely knew that it was made to be difficult. Many of us who just started playing for Lordaeron were not aware of this. It's also incredibly confusing as to why the administrators asked the community if they would like increased difficulty content, and they went against the vast majority of voters who said they do not wish for increased difficulty.

That alone shows that they do not care about the majority and are doing it because they can (and they absolutely have the right to do that). But as I said in the past, that does not make them immune to criticism like this and complaints from those of us who do not agree that this should be the way the server is.

4. I don't understand why multiple people have said that raids with heroic modes are not out yet. That is one of the features Ulduar was most famous for. How are you defending increased difficulty raids, yet are ignorant to the fact that Ulduar does not have heroic mode? And as others have pointed out, OS does have a similarly difficult heroic mode.

I truely believe Warmane would appease as many people as possible by undoing their changes. This is the reason I made this thread. Yes there self-interest involved, but I also believe many others on Warmane would agree with me. It is not as if a blizzlike server screws over hardcore players. I agree it may make it slightly less special to down bosses on an easier difficulty many times before downing them on heroic difficulty, but that's a small price to pay for the large benefit it will give to those of us who are casual raiders and will now be able to progress through raid content the way we thought we would be able to.

is it even worth it to join on Lord?
I am asking seriously, so feel free to answer...

I would absolutely still say yes. Just because I believe heavy improvement can be done on the server, I still think this server is absolutely worth playing. It's still very close to blizzlike and has good potential. Especially if you are EU timezone, the huge population makes the server a lot of fun.

[hrodvitnir21]

Ulduar hard modes are NOT the same thing as the heroic modes introduced in ToC, neither is OS+3D. They are nowhere near the same thing, it's a completely different concept.

You refuse to acknowledge the fact that without the implemented buffs, the entirety of Naxx and almost every single Ulduar boss, most hard modes included, would be EXTREMELY easy. Bosses would go down in a couple of minutes or less, and you'd be able to ignore tactics.

Do you remember people doing 8-9k DPS in retail Ulduar? Are you aware that we're playing on a 3.3.5 client? Almost all of the buffs implemented to raid bosses are there merely to compensate for this fact. People do SIGNIFICANTLY more damage, so bosses should have more HP and do more damage as well.

I don't even understand what the issue is at this point, after the last batch of nerfs, Naxx is a complete joke and most Ulduar normal modes are very much puggable.

If you're still having problems killing bosses, I don't know what to tell you. There have been very few overbuffed bosses here (mostly in 10 mans) since release, and none of them were even close to impossible.

[DarkenedHue]

Lordaeron's been advertising itself as a "hardcore" realm from the very beginning, and has spent the better part of a year now firmly establishing itself as a niche server in that regard. They aren't going to just abruptly turn around on that now.

[Xemni]

Greetings, just dropping in to give my two cents, as I feel strongly about the topic.

First, and foremost, I agree with the OP about a good majority of the players not knowing while they're leveling that content is buffed. I didn't, my friends didn't, none of the players I played with knew. I didn't hear anything about it, until I logged on the forums to get an idea of what guilds were recruiting trying to figure out if we should join one, or make one, and then I found out that content was buffed by reading some of the threads on the forums.

We've even had some leveling players join my guild, find out about it, and then quit shortly after because they didn't see a point in leveling to get stuck after heroics. If there was something on the main page, or even in the realm title saying "Raid Bosses buffed by 200%" the server wouldn't be as populated as it is now. It would be active, but it wouldn't be as popular at all, this is going off of the fact i've watched many good players just quit after finding out about it.

However, I will say the mods kind of listen. People have been complaining about the buffs for a while now, and they've rolled out some nerfs. Naxx 10 is a lot more tolerable now than it was, my guilds been cruising through the content at a reasonable pace so far, but its still far from where it should be. For example, Maexxna is a bit stupid, her 30% Berserk phase is pretty toxic. Don't know who's idea it was to buff a boss's damage, that already gets a 75% damage buff at 30% health, WHILE also having a poison that reduces healing received, or buffing the damage on her spiderlings by 300%, and their health by ~700% (7k HP on Retail, 41k HP here)

Some of the bosses offer very little room for error, and thats fine. That is something desirable, as is a very healthy form of difficulty, as its something that CAN be improved on, as a players skill increases, so will their knowledge of the encounter, and errors will vanish.

That being said, as it is right now, there are some fights that aren't hard for good reasons. Its literally all numbers, and it shouldn't be as bad as it is with some of the bosses here.

You want a custom experience for the players? How about adding new mechanics to some of the bosses, instead of buffing the hell out of all of them. Same principle as buffs, but healthier approach to it. More unique, and more creative as well. I'd rather wipe on a mechanic I didn't understand, and try to figure out the best way to deal with that mechanic, than watch my healers go oom trying to heal our tanks through a boss that wears semi trucks for gloves, wondering how much more gear I can throw at them before we can clear a boss that we should already be appropriately geared for.

Also, to the players in general that are telling everyone else to "get good", you're not a good player for clearing 8 year old health / damage buffed content. Nor does it make players that can't do them bad. The bosses are literally hard because they hit harder than they're supposed to, and have 3x more health.

[Zezarh]

Greetings, just dropping in to give my two cents, as I feel strongly about the topic.



Also, to the players in general that are telling everyone else to "get good", you're not a good player for clearing 8 year old health / damage buffed content. Nor does it make players that can't do them bad. The bosses are literally hard because they hit harder than they're supposed to, and have 3x more health.

How can it then be that i'm able to do it while you cant ?

[DakMonkey]

I started playing on Lordaeron last November, my friend told me that he was going to start here and asked if I wanted to join.

I asked him: "Private server... is it modified or is it completely like blizz servers?

He replied: "It's almost like blizz, except it's hardcore, there will be some buffs to naxx and other raids to make it harder, but no increased leveling or money or professions and no donate for bis gear."

That was last November, somehow he got the information (from warmane website/forums) that the raids will be buffed, I'm sorry you didn't know, but claiming that "most of the players want this thing that I want and I want raids to be blizzclone" or "I feel screwed, because you lied." or whatever is just silly. Next time you know better and read up on what server you are starting on.

[Gwola]

ayyyyyyylmao

[Xemni]

How can it then be that i'm able to do it while you cant ?

You apparently missed the part where my post says "My guild is currently cruising through the content at a reasonable pace" so now I can see that you're not very good at reading as well.

Everyone who raids in my guild, other than my self because i've been charitable with other leather wearing classes, is at 3.9 - 4k GS. All of them over geared, considering Naxxramas 10, was supposed to be doable by players with 3.3k GS. I'm not posting here because the content is hard and i'm unable to do it, because we've almost cleared all of Naxx 10, i'm posting here because I understand completely how OP feels. Content that is supposed to feel like entry level content, is buffed to a point that its advised you just bipass it, and comeback to it later. How exactly is that healthy for the game?

And again, you're not good for doing this content, we're not good either. We literally were just patient enough to stack gear until we could eventually drop the boss because they're overtuned. Nothings changed about them. Nothing about them requires anymore skill than they did when they were released 8 years ago. Nothing about this is a healthy challenge, they're literally just time sinks. Spend enough time, and you'll kill it. Get enough gear, and you'll kill. There is no learning fights here, its just throw your self at it until its dead because the strategy has been around since 2008. If you consider your self a good player for downing 8 year old content, with trivial mechanics, then thats laughable.

[LancenorbX]

Originally the main draw of Lordaeron was in fact that it would be "the most Blizz-like Private Server in the world" Warmane consistently broadcasted that (deserved at the time) boast regularly in game. Nowhere did it mention puffed up raid mobs or reduced buff stacks on players/party members. I didn't find it bad to level from 60 to 80.

My biggest concern is the lack of Random Dungeon Finder which adding insult to injury they broadcast it as a boast when clearly it should be a voluntary choice if only for the achieves. It also badly affects rep gathering and other grinding, long a part of the game.

I am very pleased with the overall quest content. Yeah some are bugged but there is so much newly scripted and properly working quests that stayed broken for years on Molten, how could anyone complain?

I'll keep working 6 toons and hope that 3.3.5 content is released soon. If I understand right, we are on 3.3.3. It is odd that quests are offered for Frozen Halls dungeons when they don't yet exist. Hopefully adding POS, FOS, and HOR will improve the gear and raiding situation to where anyone remotely serious will stay happy and keep playing. I'm willing to wait and see, though it looks really bad for RDF and I don't understand the "logic" behind disabling it, let alone bragging about it and insulting our intelligence. Since it was always an option representing no loss to anyone, is it just pressure to donate? I don't need that pressure since after 5 years, most on x1, donation at least for some items is just wise and more than acceptable.