1. May 4, 2017  
    On point, DamnOriginal, as usual.

    I'd like to add that a Unholy or Blood tank generally does not have Threat of Thassarian also. Which further hinders the usefulness of dual-wielding.

  2. May 4, 2017  
    Thanks for the answer. Comming from a nicely scripted server and 1-handers were far enough. There are always some diferences between servers.
    Was undet the impresoon that improved IT, impurity and double rune mastery for 6 death runes was good enough without thinking that it might be different somewhere else.
    Agreed on Sindragosa, always used an heroic claymore for that one.
    I personnaly run a Third War + mark build and you don't talk much on mark of blood, I find it somewhat good on some occasions as it doesn't have an ICD. Putricide's green add, Lanathel air phase, LK infest, etc. That's a lot of bursting phases that can be nicely negated, either on a singled target burst heal or aoe smoothing.

  3. Hello there :D

    First i want to say this most of your links arent working anymore plz if the thread is active and the Author is still intresting i hope you are kind and you will redo the links with specs etc.

    Here i will put a link that you can use even now and sow us your specs

    http://rpgworld.altervista.org/335/deathknight.php

    Without any delays i will move forward to what i have to say

    i dont get it why the DKs are arguing for threat !!! for me its realy simple to do alot of threat even a dps/tanking bear wouldnt surpass me and i also run 10mans hcs without even a hunter in the group and i dint found any problem with threat !!
    That being sayed i will put a link that has 23 used talent points out of 71 so keep in mind you have 48 more to put them whenever you like them more

    here is the link :
    http://rpgworld.altervista.org/335/d...00000000000000

    If you gear is on the same lvl wit hthe rest of your group you will never have threat problems even if you use 2hand or 2x 1hand
    id dosent realy matter what you will use :D
    I tryed that spec with even 124 hit points thats almost 5% spell hit and almost 4% melee hit

    yes it sounds crazy you will be missing alot but you will not have threat problems and yes im aware that my taunt can still miss.....
    But i never had problem to tank what ever !!!!! with out any problems and keep in mind you always will have hunters/rogues in your group so even if you stand still the boss will come for you....
    (But yes i dont recomend it to raiding with out being hit caped / i solve my problem when i get my HC cryptmaker and now im happy )

    So the problem with threat is solved for now and forever !!! DO NOT MIND AOE THREAT !!!!!! most of the times you will not be able to keep up if there is more than 3 targets for sure!!!
    ( id recomend if your offspec is also for tanking geting further at frost and trying a build with focusing at howling blast and how many of those you could cast and then you will not have problem to tank the whole lady room .....how many mobs are there !! for sure there are more than 3 :D )

    But yet again isnt a spec you should try to get since it does lose alot of tanking things and you will not want to use it somewhere else apart the room of lady or trash at RS or VDW keep in mind with chilblains and Hungering cold you can kite all the abominations that they will spawn antil your group heals VDW


    All of those that im saying have been tested in actual raids !! and they are working 100% and even your raidleaders sayotherwise tell them they dont have a clue how a DK works! And they shouldnt try to convince you that what are you doing is wrong ....keep in mind that the kite thing has to be aproved from the reaid leader otherwise the spec isnt usefull..

    So i did say alot of frost things and the thread isnt saying something for frost DKs sorry for that

    I will get on my point why you should use a 2hand wep when you are saying the unholy spec is geting more benefit from avoidance !!! (since we do have bone shield!) i cant found a single weapon that gives more avoidance than 2x troggbanes


    So lets consider this ! even BLIZARD had admit that the DK Tanking specs arent working properly since they rush the expansion (WOTLK) and the Dk tanking specs are WRONG!! why that you will ask. since lets say you have 30k health and you get 40k hit you die ! DK heals are useless since you are DEAD! and they (blizard) sayed that all the heals that a DK could do should be absorbs and not heals....so lets do the math if you do now a heal lets say 13k from dead you cant do a heal :D well yea 30k and 13k shield/absorb or whatever they sayed that sould be corect and you get 40k hit you will be alive with 3k life yes its low life but yes you will be alive.....
    So there is the point if you are dead you cant do a heal and you cant consider your heals efective since the LK hits are around 40k and even more if you count the speed and the dmg from soul reaper..bla bla bla bla yes if you are way pro you could do heal ..hmm maybe yes maybe no depends always depends on the situation.

    For long long long long long very long time now everyone will say armor and health are the most efective things you can should have inside icc or rs if you are a tank....
    Yes they are both of those 2 things TRUE!! armor dosent have diminishing returns nor the health heheh ...
    So its true we should focusing to have those 2 over whatever is out there dodge/parry/miss

    Hmm ok ok ok i agree i do play my DK based on those 2 things but noone can say to me dont colect extra tanking gear or have an offspec of my choice.

    So i do try to collect as many avoidance as i can atm im around 80-90% (i do give 10% since alot of macros or calculations or addons are saying deferent things) so i do say around 80-90% outside of icc !!! with out buffs foods flask etc
    So i do focus on having 120% avoidance outside of icc since we do get -20% inside icc or rs (mind that i will be counting the buffs,food,flask to reach that or as closer i can get to that)

    SO HERE IS THE BIG QUESTION WHY UNHOLY TANKING SPEC SHOULDNT BE USED INSIDE ICC as you sayed....?????????

    At the moment i do miss 4 parts for full bis (atealst my bis list for avoidance)

    and i do look like this :

    http://prntscr.com/fy2hi1

    keep in mind i did removed the parts that im using for my build as amror/health tank to be more acurate
    so the 80-90% has beed calculated with the items i do have for the moment
    so its something like this

    http://prntscr.com/fy2inu

    for the moment

    Keep in mind that i have to redo some enchants and gems since for the avoidance build i dont want to geming stamina and some of the parts on me have stamina gems.....so i will geting something more

    The total calculations that i did based on TankPoints calculator ading the extra stats that i will have when i do get all the gear that i want i will be somewhere around 105% avoidance outside of icc (take care should be less or more////propably less) and inside icc85% keep in mind no buffs are calculated for those numbers..

    So now is the moment to unleash the big bomb avoidance over health or health over avoidance hmmm

    Alot of ppl will say HEALTH above eveything else ...
    meh meh ok lets do maths
    simple maths
    i do know that the defernce on healtpull will be like 10-15k so lets say full stamina tank (not druid anyway the post if for DKs nor druids) can go 85-90k life (druids can pull 96k but they do lose on avoidance compare to ather tanks)
    so 85-90k life for a full stamina tank good numbers arent they?
    what you would look like with a full avoidance tank 75-80k life well ......isnt looking that much of difference...

    So lets do the math once again
    Lets say that a boss will do 5 hits a stamina tank will get something like 3or4 out of the 5 hits
    an avoidance tank will get 0 out of 5 (meh yea lets say 1/5 propably since 100% avoidance looks too much)
    but yet again its just 1 ht. Which one do you think it's easier to heal/better to tank?
    lets go deeper now you will be able to get him by spells!! lets say a boss does on the same time a spell hit and melee hit
    a stamina tank will get both oh them but an avoidance tank will get the 1 of those 2 ....hmmm so there isnt any point to argue about that ..right ?
    plus come on we are DKs the most efective class over a spell dmg fight-hit....

    ok a reader will ask

    R: But you have low hp, how do you want to fight LK?

    ME: Hey , have you read what I said? I'm not getting hit by LK so WHY would I need hp? I could have 10k HP as long as he is UNABLE to hit me, why the f... does it matter?

    R: Hmm yes, you do have a point altho I still think u're wrong and you suck. Tell me, how do you deal with other encounters where you need HP?

    ME: Like what? Please tell me a boss that requires me to have ****load of HP? There is one, indeed, where you need hp and that is the 1st mini boss of RS. I agree that there HP > avoidance. But that's it.
    Why? - because every single boss has a melee attack. I never get hit by melee attacks = profit.

    R: How about bosses that cast spells you noob? What u do then?

    ME: Well let's think about it this way - most of the bosses that use spells have a melee attack as well. That means, for a tank, there are two things he needs to watch out for - Melee Attacks and Spells.
    A stamina tank takes both of them full on, while me, as an avoidance tank, only take spells. So basically, stamina tanks take 2/2 and I take 1/2. Which one do you think it's easier to heal/better to tank?
    What would you do if you would get a melee hit followed by a spell followed by another melee and you wouldn't dodge any (cuz u stacked stamina like a boss)? I'll tell you what - you die.


    My post geting way to big and i cant go on for the Diminishing returns or how they work but its clear more of one stat you get dodge/parry the less you receive (thats true 100%) but for the hit table aka example 5 dodge in row do aply on DR ? i dont know and nobody looks to know (i could use some help on that matter)
    One thing is for sure the hit table does exists
    Base Miss : 05.00%
    Miss : xx.xx% (if you get your cursor on your defence it will say XX.XX Decreases the chance to be hit
    Dodge : xx.xx%
    Parry : xx.xx%
    if there is paly or war ad block to (but isnt avoidance since you well get the him - the block you will do
    total : XX.XX%
    (but i think there isnt calculated the extra 3% of miss we get from Frigid Dreadplate

    so the hit table for me
    Base Miss : 05.00%
    my miss : 09.46%
    dodge : 34.59%
    Parry : 30.85%
    Total : 79.80% wiht out any buff outside of icc (yes macros and addons are saying that i have more)
    do i count the 3% extra miss from talents i guess yes
    So my number for the moment is 82.80% so what that means i do let free 17.20% margin to be hit by an attack if the server rolls something more than 82 propably i will be hit hmm i think roughly 2 hit of 10 attacks

    Yes i do get it maybe my calculations arent corect but on paper it does look better isnt it ? i will be saying more when i do get the 4 parts that i need more and i do hope to have a real action with my avoidance dk inside icc and rs

    (the tests in 10mansHc arent bad for the momnet)
    Who ever want to see what my specs looks like visit my armory

    http://armory.warmane.com/character/...ecrown/summary


    P.S. Thanks for your time and sorry for the big post and for my bad english
    Dks are the most OP tank :D
    Edited: July 20, 2017

  4. I would love to see a video of u tanking 25m hc LK with that gear. :)

    Edit:
    If u put atleast 1 talent point in Crypt Fever u would increase healing of Death Strike by a lot...
    http://wotlk.evowow.com/?talent#j0xZ...Z0ghIx0bxfzzbk
    I dont see the point of Lichbourne, nor do i see any point of Unholy DK tank in ICC but hey, u gota do what u gota do... :D
    Edited: July 20, 2017

  5. Spoiler: Show
    ....
    So i do try to collect as many avoidance as i can atm im around 80-90% (i do give 10% since alot of macros or calculations or addons are saying deferent things) so i do say around 80-90% outside of icc !!! with out buffs foods flask etc
    So i do focus on having 120% avoidance outside of icc since we do get -20% inside icc or rs (mind that i will be counting the buffs,food,flask to reach that or as closer i can get to that)

    SO HERE IS THE BIG QUESTION WHY UNHOLY TANKING SPEC SHOULDNT BE USED INSIDE ICC as you sayed....?????????

    At the moment i do miss 4 parts for full bis (atealst my bis list for avoidance)

    and i do look like this :

    http://prntscr.com/fy2hi1

    keep in mind i did removed the parts that im using for my build as amror/health tank to be more acurate
    so the 80-90% has beed calculated with the items i do have for the moment
    so its something like this

    http://prntscr.com/fy2inu

    for the moment

    Keep in mind that i have to redo some enchants and gems since for the avoidance build i dont want to geming stamina and some of the parts on me have stamina gems.....so i will geting something more

    The total calculations that i did based on TankPoints calculator ading the extra stats that i will have when i do get all the gear that i want i will be somewhere around 105% avoidance outside of icc (take care should be less or more////propably less) and inside icc85% keep in mind no buffs are calculated for those numbers..

    So now is the moment to unleash the big bomb avoidance over health or health over avoidance hmmm

    Alot of ppl will say HEALTH above eveything else ...
    meh meh ok lets do maths
    simple maths
    i do know that the defernce on healtpull will be like 10-15k so lets say full stamina tank (not druid anyway the post if for DKs nor druids) can go 85-90k life (druids can pull 96k but they do lose on avoidance compare to ather tanks)
    so 85-90k life for a full stamina tank good numbers arent they?
    what you would look like with a full avoidance tank 75-80k life well ......isnt looking that much of difference...

    So lets do the math once again
    Lets say that a boss will do 5 hits a stamina tank will get something like 3or4 out of the 5 hits
    an avoidance tank will get 0 out of 5 (meh yea lets say 1/5 propably since 100% avoidance looks too much)
    but yet again its just 1 ht. Which one do you think it's easier to heal/better to tank?
    lets go deeper now you will be able to get him by spells!! lets say a boss does on the same time a spell hit and melee hit
    a stamina tank will get both oh them but an avoidance tank will get the 1 of those 2 ....hmmm so there isnt any point to argue about that ..right ?
    plus come on we are DKs the most efective class over a spell dmg fight-hit....

    ok a reader will ask

    R: But you have low hp, how do you want to fight LK?

    ME: Hey , have you read what I said? I'm not getting hit by LK so WHY would I need hp? I could have 10k HP as long as he is UNABLE to hit me, why the f... does it matter?

    R: Hmm yes, you do have a point altho I still think u're wrong and you suck. Tell me, how do you deal with other encounters where you need HP?

    ME: Like what? Please tell me a boss that requires me to have ****load of HP? There is one, indeed, where you need hp and that is the 1st mini boss of RS. I agree that there HP > avoidance. But that's it.
    Why? - because every single boss has a melee attack. I never get hit by melee attacks = profit.

    R: How about bosses that cast spells you noob? What u do then?

    ME: Well let's think about it this way - most of the bosses that use spells have a melee attack as well. That means, for a tank, there are two things he needs to watch out for - Melee Attacks and Spells.
    A stamina tank takes both of them full on, while me, as an avoidance tank, only take spells. So basically, stamina tanks take 2/2 and I take 1/2. Which one do you think it's easier to heal/better to tank?
    What would you do if you would get a melee hit followed by a spell followed by another melee and you wouldn't dodge any (cuz u stacked stamina like a boss)? I'll tell you what - you die.



    The problem lies with your assumptions that you can even reach such high avoidance. There's an upper boundary of what you can have as either a paladin/dk/druid/warrior tank when it comes to your combined dodge + parry. And that upper boundary is nowhere near 100%. The reason people rely mostly on the combination of armor and health is because you MUST assume that bosses WILL get lucky and pass through your imaginary 100% avoidance. In translation, you will get unclucky consecutive hits which will gimp you. You will have those unlucky streaks as both a stamina and avoid stacker, however with the former you're buying time for your healing team to catch up and let you survive following hits.
    Edited: July 20, 2017

  6. I would love to see a video of u tanking 25m hc LK with that gear. :)

    Edit:
    If u put atleast 1 talent point in Crypt Fever u would increase healing of Death Strike by a lot...
    http://wotlk.evowow.com/?talent#j0xZ...Z0ghIx0bxfzzbk
    I dont see the point of Lichbourne, nor do i see any point of Unholy DK tank in ICC but hey, u gota do what u gota do... :D
    Well im not that aware with unholy spec of the dk but i took Lichbourne for the heal :P plus we always have unholy dk in the raid combo

    Duno thats why i did post to learn things and share what i do know or thinking :P thanks for your reply

  7. My apologies, i tend to go a bit aggressive when it comes to Unholy DK tank...
    U wont ever have enough GCDs to have a full use of Lichbourne healing, on top of that, healing from DCs is low aswell.
    And as Rifokelt said, u can have 99% avoidance, all Boss needs is to get lucky 1 time and oneshot u.
    Unholy DK tank is a "fun" spec, not something u should recomend for newbies to use.
    Best of luck. :)

  8. The problem lies with your assumptions that you can even reach such high avoidance. There's an upper boundary of what you can have as either a paladin/dk/druid/warrior tank when it comes to your combined dodge + parry. And that upper boundary is nowhere near 100%. The reason people rely mostly on the combination of armor and health is because you MUST assume that bosses WILL get lucky and pass through your imaginary 100% avoidance. In translation, you will get unclucky consecutive hits which will gimp you. You will have those unlucky streaks as both a stamina and avoid stacker, however with the former you're buying time for your healing team to catch up and let you survive following hits.
    Hmm are you serius ? you call imaginary the 100% when i do have 80-90% with ouf buffs well i dont see the point to say something on this :D

    And yes i asume that the boss always will be able to hit me ...but he will not be able to land the same amound attacks that he will do on a stamina tank..and yes when i will take 2 hits i will die... but stamina tank will die also :D

    Maths :

    Lod hits 45k and depends on raid buffs and if there is imp devo aura, on bis Tank..and that is accurate 100%
    ok lets say that he will do 45k on any bis DK

    i did say that we could reach 85-90 k life yes i did and the 90k seems to much for me atleast but yet again 45+45=90 DEAD MR president DEAD !!!


    I was clean about this i sayed i can DIE but a stamina tank dies to based on the same maths , stamina dosent play any role...QQ

    well ...there isnt wells and buts....

  9. My apologies, i tend to go a bit aggressive when it comes to Unholy DK tank...
    U wont ever have enough GCDs to have a full use of Lichbourne healing, on top of that, healing from DCs is low aswell.
    And as Rifokelt said, u can have 99% avoidance, all Boss needs is to get lucky 1 time and oneshot u.
    Unholy DK tank is a "fun" spec, not something u should recomend for newbies to use.
    Best of luck. :)
    Ok ok i did just put one wrong point based on what you sayed (yes DeathCoil heals around 2-3k life it is low but i dont intent to use death strikes on a encounter like LOD :P since the use of one frost and one uholy runes seems way to much to spend on a heal that isnt that great
    The whole post that i did made was pointing out that the heals we do are not 100% efective since if we do die we cant heal i dont even count them somewhere
    ok i do admit that i never played unholy(dps) and propably you are right that i did sepnd one talent point wrong but yet again apart bone shield and AMS/AMZ i dont look for somethign else from the unholy tree
    I dint recoment to newbie to play unholy dk and if you read Lyneas post says you have to master the tanking before you atmept to play unholy dk aka you should know when to use CDs etc etc

    and im not saying that i will have 99% i did sayed that we are able to reach 105% inside icc

  10. Death Strike heals for 5% of your total health per disease. That's why you take Crypt Fever with 1 point to have 3 diseases up and getting healed for 15% per Death Strike. Calling that low is beyond me.

    And you aren't even able to reach 102.4% avoidance outside of ICC, nor inside. The DR on dodge is heavy, the one on parry is even greater. On top of that avoidance is not increased by any raid buff (hope we agree that the small margin of agility you gain by gbok doesn't count at all).

    Edit: Yes, you gain avoidance from Insect Swarm, but it's a flat increase and not dependent on your own avoidance. So it accounts for the EHP as well as the avoidance build.
    Edited: July 20, 2017

  11. Please show me exactly how you have 80-90% avoidance outside of ICC on any tanking class. By exactly I mean provide a screenshot with visible dodge and parry percentages. Use external class buffs if you'd like, I'll be waiting.

  12. Please show me exactly how you have 80-90% avoidance outside of ICC on any tanking class. By exactly I mean provide a screenshot with visible dodge and parry percentages. Use external class buffs if you'd like, I'll be waiting.
    i do miss 4 parts more and gems enchants + buffs

    There are 2 addons open and on chat i did use 2 macros


    http://prntscr.com/fy9p88

    Riko log on and Pm me ...



    im flattered that 3from the top dks spend time to respond at my post haha
    Edited: July 20, 2017

  13. i do miss 4 parts more and gems enchants + buffs

    There are 2 addons open and on chat i did use 2 macros


    http://prntscr.com/fy9p88
    10,47 + 30.25 + 33.98 = 74.7

    No amount of raid buffs will get you to 80% outside of ICC, or at Halion. Inside ICC/at Halion you'd be at 55-58ish % avoid which is something tanks would probably pursue unless it had ridiculous repercussions:

    - Barely any armor
    - Very low health
    - Sub-par trinkets
    Edited: July 20, 2017

  14. 10,47 + 30.25 + 33.98 = 74.7

    No amount of raid buffs will get you to 80% outside of ICC, or at Halion. Inside ICC/at Halion you'd be at 55-58ish % avoid which is something tanks would probably pursue unless it had ridiculous repercussions:

    - Barely any armor
    - Very low health
    - Sub-par trinkets
    Dont trust the Tank points i dont thats why i sayed i dont know how much i do have since if you just count it it says something deferent


    http://prntscr.com/fyaj6u

    and i told you do we count the extra 3% on mis from Frigid Dreadplate or not

    im online you can log and wisp me like ben ....


    and the point is noone trys to play like this atleast recently WHY is a bad thing to TEST it ...???
    (ok i do know propably it will not work but yet again i can try it !!! )

    maybe then we can learn some new things or not :P

    yes its like 9k less armor

    and its like 10-15k less life
    i dint get what that means : Sub-par trinkets (propably you want to say the trinkets arent usefull yes they arent sindy trinket is way big CD :D for lod)
    Edited: July 20, 2017

  15. Hello there :D

    First i want to say this most of your links arent working anymore plz if the thread is active and the Author is still intresting i hope you are kind and you will redo the links with specs etc.

    Here i will put a link that you can use even now and sow us your specs

    http://rpgworld.altervista.org/335/deathknight.php
    There are working links to the talent builds in the guide. I've not bothered with replacing the spell links because you should be able to refer to those in-game. I'll go ahead and update the links with this talent calculator though, and put the links here in this post for you.

    Deep Unholy;
    http://rpgworld.altervista.org/335/d...33101203133150

    Veteran of the Third War Unholy/Blood hybrid;
    http://rpgworld.altervista.org/335/d...33101201100000

    Without any delays i will move forward to what i have to say

    i dont get it why the DKs are arguing for threat !!! for me its realy simple to do alot of threat even a dps/tanking bear wouldnt surpass me and i also run 10mans hcs without even a hunter in the group and i dint found any problem with threat !!
    That being sayed i will put a link that has 23 used talent points out of 71 so keep in mind you have 48 more to put them whenever you like them more

    here is the link :
    http://rpgworld.altervista.org/335/d...00000000000000

    If you gear is on the same lvl wit hthe rest of your group you will never have threat problems even if you use 2hand or 2x 1hand
    id dosent realy matter what you will use :D
    While it is true threat is not a big concern for a Death Knight, the question of what type of weapons to use is a silly one in my opinion. If you're going to dual wield, you may as well go for the spec that benefits more from it. There are stat and talent differences, and not going after those is a loss for.... no reason. But hey, if you want to go for a dual wielding Unholy Death Knight, go for it. I won't stop you. But I'm not going to put such content in the guide.
    I tryed that spec with even 124 hit points thats almost 5% spell hit and almost 4% melee hit

    yes it sounds crazy you will be missing alot but you will not have threat problems and yes im aware that my taunt can still miss.....
    But i never had problem to tank what ever !!!!! with out any problems and keep in mind you always will have hunters/rogues in your group so even if you stand still the boss will come for you....
    (But yes i dont recomend it to raiding with out being hit caped / i solve my problem when i get my HC cryptmaker and now im happy )
    You may have personal good experience with being under the hit cap, but that does not mean it should be recommended in any case. Taunts aren't only used for getting aggro back on a boss when someone steals threat. Instances such as an add spawning that DPS are bursting are an example.
    So the problem with threat is solved for now and forever !!! DO NOT MIND AOE THREAT !!!!!! most of the times you will not be able to keep up if there is more than 3 targets for sure!!!
    ( id recomend if your offspec is also for tanking geting further at frost and trying a build with focusing at howling blast and how many of those you could cast and then you will not have problem to tank the whole lady room .....how many mobs are there !! for sure there are more than 3 :D )
    Unholy actually has stronger AoE threat than any of the other Death Knight specs. If snap threat is an issue, that is what Rogues and Hunters are for. I won't go further on the topic of Frost here, because this is an Unholy guide.
    I will get on my point why you should use a 2hand wep when you are saying the unholy spec is geting more benefit from avoidance !!! (since we do have bone shield!) i cant found a single weapon that gives more avoidance than 2x troggbanes
    If you want to stack avoidance via dual wielding, then by all means, go for it. However, avoidance is not the only thing you should concern yourself with. Effective health is more important inside of ICC. While avoidance is nice to boost the usefulness of Bone Shield, it is not priority.
    SO HERE IS THE BIG QUESTION WHY UNHOLY TANKING SPEC SHOULDNT BE USED INSIDE ICC as you sayed....?????????
    People like to go pure EHP and pretend avoidance doesn't exist. I get where they're coming from, and they get upset that I don't agree with them, but they have their own threads to go argue with each other in. It's best not to try and bait them into this thread so they get themselves in trouble.

    I don't know what you're wanting me to comment on the rest of your post, but please note that neither EHP (effective health pool) nor avoidance should be disregarded. Ignoring either of them, you will only be doing yourself a disservice.

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