1. I'll just quickly summarize his points that you seem to have misunderstood.
    [...]
    What he's (very correctly) pointing out is that starting fresh is difficult as it is. Try starting bareboned on this server and working your way to 80. You can't even afford to learn spells without begging in or using professions. Professions were just made harder to use, so that's one nail in the coffin.
    I understood perfectly well. The issue here is that you haven't realized that the game was designed around the "x1" 'rate'. Increased rates are not intended. If that's too difficult for you, and you're unwilling to farm, then I'm of the opinion that you're probably playing the wrong game.

    I have started "bareboned" many times. On Icecrown. On Lordaeron (I shudder to think of what you'd think of starting on that realm). On Live (aka 'retail'). Was it difficult? Perhaps. But that's part of the intended experience.
    Reputation gains were also nerfed, making the 5.5k GS even harder to achieve. Another nail.
    Reputations? Really? Reputations are completely ignored by most players except for the shoulder/helm enchants and the Ashen Verdict rings. BoEs are being handed out like they're candy - they're extremely plentiful. And that's not even to mention the fact that you can get yourself ICC raid-ready without ever having done anything past a heroic dungeon. I did that on live too. In a matter of days. Starting on a fresh character, spamming dungeon finder as a tank, and before I knew it I was tanking ICC10 for the guild I was in.
    You're sitting in 200 ilvl blues? -> Go farm emblems or join/make some Naxxramas raids.
    Stuck at 210 ilvl? -> Go do some Ulduar 10.
    Stuck at 220 ilvl? -> Go do some ToC 10.
    Stuck at 230 ilvl? -> Go farm some more emblems and do some ToC 25.
    Stuck at 240 ilvl? -> Go farm ICC10.... wait! You're in ICC!
    Too difficult? Then go donate.
    This right here is why certain people often get mocked in-game. Because some people are lazy to a point that they don't even know how to play the game.
    The gold gain is reduced, so they can't pay their way to success either. Yet another nail.
    You say I didn't understand, yet I addressed this exact point in my previous post. A person paying their way to "success" is intended to be a LUXURY. Do you know what that means?
    But hey, they can just donate money. Not to offend anyone, but a lot of players are alienated by the idea that they need to spend money in order to have a chance at gaining a foothold (in heroic dungeons, raids or even pvp!). More nails.
    You know, Lordaeron players are probably reading this and laughing right now.
    Sure, if you have your 8 characters with 400k gold each and maxed professions and reputations, you're not impacted at all. That's common sense.
    But you also have no progression left to do and will probably quit the game.
    I think you'd be surprised. Myself and many of the friends I play with have full character lists of "full BiS" characters - many of which we farmed for ourselves. We're still around. Playing. Gearing new characters. Helping our friends with with our geared characters. You know what makes people want to stay around and have fun on here? Friends! Community!

  2. Spending Less then 1 Hour in pretty much any gathering profession Early will net you min 1-5k, at mid levels 40-60 that profit margin is like 5-10k why? they are the mats that 80's are too lazy to go farm = small market = inflated price.
    Anyone that complains they cant make gold are ****ing Braindead.

  3. What he's (very correctly) pointing out is that starting fresh is difficult as it is. Try starting bareboned on this server and working your way to 80. You can't even afford to learn spells without begging in or using professions. Professions were just made harder to use, so that's one nail in the coffin.
    .
    You do know that you can earn 200 gold from like 1 stack of level 1 herbs that are abundant in elwynn and you can get one stack in a matter of 5 minutes right?

  4. I understood perfectly well. The issue here is that you haven't realized that the game was designed around the "x1" 'rate'. Increased rates are not intended. If that's too difficult for you, and you're unwilling to farm, then I'm of the opinion that you're probably playing the wrong game.

    I have started "bareboned" many times. On Icecrown. On Lordaeron (I shudder to think of what you'd think of starting on that realm). On Live (aka 'retail'). Was it difficult? Perhaps. But that's part of the intended experience.

    Reputations? Really? Reputations are completely ignored by most players except for the shoulder/helm enchants and the Ashen Verdict rings. BoEs are being handed out like they're candy - they're extremely plentiful. And that's not even to mention the fact that you can get yourself ICC raid-ready without ever having done anything past a heroic dungeon. I did that on live too. In a matter of days. Starting on a fresh character, spamming dungeon finder as a tank, and before I knew it I was tanking ICC10 for the guild I was in.
    You're sitting in 200 ilvl blues? -> Go farm emblems or join/make some Naxxramas raids.
    Stuck at 210 ilvl? -> Go do some Ulduar 10.
    Stuck at 220 ilvl? -> Go do some ToC 10.
    Stuck at 230 ilvl? -> Go farm some more emblems and do some ToC 25.
    Stuck at 240 ilvl? -> Go farm ICC10.... wait! You're in ICC!
    Too difficult? Then go donate.
    This right here is why certain people often get mocked in-game. Because some people are lazy to a point that they don't even know how to play the game.

    You say I didn't understand, yet I addressed this exact point in my previous post. A person paying their way to "success" is intended to be a LUXURY. Do you know what that means?

    You know, Lordaeron players are probably reading this and laughing right now.

    I think you'd be surprised. Myself and many of the friends I play with have full character lists of "full BiS" characters - many of which we farmed for ourselves. We're still around. Playing. Gearing new characters. Helping our friends with with our geared characters. You know what makes people want to stay around and have fun on here? Friends! Community!
    I farmed ICC content for the full year that it was current content like 7 years ago.
    I'm not opposed to farming, but I am opposed to inequality.
    YOU farmed at 7x rates, with all of your characters. Why should I not be able to?
    If they took away everything from you right now and you'd have to go back to playing at 1x rates, while the rest of us retained all of our already accumulated perks and wealth, would you be fine with it too?? Or are you just the biggest hypocrit on earth...

  5. I farmed ICC content for the full year that it was current content like 7 years ago.
    I'm not opposed to farming, but I am opposed to inequality.
    YOU farmed at 7x rates, with all of your characters. Why should I not be able to?
    If they took away everything from you right now and you'd have to go back to playing at 1x rates, while the rest of us retained all of our already accumulated perks and wealth, would you be fine with it too?? Or are you just the biggest hypocrit on earth...
    Because time passes and things change. Your argument is as valid as "YOU played Vanilla and got things that are gone, why should I not be able to?"

  6. Oh really?
    Should I answer that?
    "New players can't progress - they won't start."
    Can't progress how? Exp is remaining at the same, fast rate. Gold rates are being lowered? The value of gold will change when the rate at which the currency can be obtained will change. Profession rates are being lowered? Not an issue, as the profession system was designed around the standard "x1" rate in the first place. And if people choose not to do professions anyway? Well, that's fine. Wouldn't be the first time someone decided to build a character without bothering with the professions..

    "Veteran players will get enough of the game - they'll quit."
    Veteran players who have already farmed some gold, maxed their professions and reputations, this will have very little effect on them. It will have a larger effect on the economy. The effect on the "veteran" individual will be small. For obvious reasons.

    "No fresh blood, no old blood - Server will be forsaken. Good luck."
    Sounds like someone saying that the sky is falling without any real basis for that claim.

    You know what we don't like? People always jumping to this sort of conclusion. If I had 10 cents for every time I saw someone making this claim over X or Y thing that's going on, I'd be filthy rich right now. So, we'd appreciate it if you kept your accusations to yourself. Please and thank you.

    If money is what we were after, there are much easier and much more efficient ways of going about it. Please think before you post.
    Profession designed to be x1 with high population and high amount of low levels (under max) that farm and sell materials. I have been playing WoW a month after it came out until today, so don't tell me what its like to level up a profession on retail rates. This server is NOT a retail one, does NOT have the same population and will NEVER have. Not because it's not as good, but because the population who plays it is different. Leaving out some bugs here and there, the server gives you the retail feeling. A good metaphor for this is - you can have a house, but the way it'll look on the inside depends on the people who live in it.
    It's not the effect on veterans, it's the effect of starting a new character. Not everyone can pay 10,000 gold on Enchanting materials - which will be higher since you changed the rates.

    "Sounds like someone saying that the sky is falling without any real basis for that claim."
    Do you really wanna go down to this level? There is a real basis, I explained it a couple of times. Blizzard did not listen to the community and lost millions of subscribers, of course the reasons are different for the abandonment, but the situation is almost the same.
    Sometimes, listening can go a long way. I'm not looking for instant 80 or instant professions, not at all.
    I'm just stating you facts, not thoughts, facts. Reducing gold gained, increasing time needed for grinding materials, leaving the exp rate the same way and decreasing profession rate will cause a massive inflation whether you like it or not. Instead of wasting 10,000 gold on leveling Enchanting now you'll need 10-15% more because materials amount reduction and around 50-60% extra because you gain 3 per level instead of 5. That's a rough calculation though.
    To prevent this from happening you should have reduced exp rate along with the reduction.

    I wish to emphasize the fact that I'm NOT against the reduction. I'm against unwise reduction being covered with high self confidence.

    tl;dr
    If you make less people farm the same regeants and increase the demand almost twice as high (5x prof to 3x) you'll cause massive inflation, even if you don't intend to.
    Moreover, prices have already increased.

    You can accept my statements, you can also decline them. Please keep in mind that I'm not going to be dragged to childish conversation.
    Best wishes my friend.

  7. Somehow, the staff doesn't seem to get that on retail, there weren't 8000 bots farming up everything, and that on retail, half of the herb spawns and mining nodes weren't removed. At 1x, it would be harder to make gold on here than it was on retail for these exact reasons...and it was already hard enough on retail that people were selling their virginity for 5k gold. Sounds like a blast, huh?

  8. Somehow, the staff doesn't seem to get that on retail, there weren't 8000 bots farming up everything, and that on retail, half of the herb spawns and mining nodes weren't removed. At 1x, it would be harder to make gold on here than it was on retail for these exact reasons...and it was already hard enough on retail that people were selling their virginity for 5k gold. Sounds like a blast, huh?
    You haven't played it much yourself, have you?
    "there arent bugs on retail"
    "there arent hackers on retail"
    "there arent bots on retail"
    I've seen these statements before. All of them are false.
    I have been playing WoW a month after it came out until today, so don't tell me what its like to level up a profession on retail rates.
    Great! Then you'll be just fine!
    I wish to emphasize the fact that I'm NOT against the reduction. I'm against unwise reduction being covered with high self confidence.
    Confidence isn't the issue here. Comments like the following ARE.
    The developers cover their will for making money with "It's the best for the community".
    Not that I'm against business, but I don't like this dishonest move.
    So I'll put it much more plainly than I did before: If you can't be polite, don't post. Thanks!

  9. You haven't played it much yourself, have you?
    "there arent bugs on retail"
    "there arent hackers on retail"
    "there arent bots on retail"
    I've seen these statements before. All of them are false.
    I've played this game since it existed and no, on retail the hackers and bots are banned pretty fast and I can honestly say I've never seen one on there. Yes there are occasionally bugs on retail, but they get them fixed pretty fast too.

  10. I've played this game since it existed and no, on retail the hackers and bots are banned pretty fast and I can honestly say I've never seen one on there. Yes there are occasionally bugs on retail, but they get them fixed pretty fast too.
    I wish that was the case.
    Last season of WoD Rotation bots and kickbots rained supreme for over 1.5 years.
    Fly hackers were in RBGs for the entirety of WoD

    Bot bans are a rarity on Retail as of the past 3 expansions.

    There have been several game breaking bugs at the minute on retail, a few examples:
    Demon Hunter eye beam's channel will always stop halfway through the channel
    Rain from above (an ability that makes you fly into the sky and launch down felbolts) will break if you hit anything above you and you float down unable to cast
    A couple of quests have been bugged since beta
    Back when Demo locks had their leap, 90% of the time it would DC you
    Fel Rush will DC 99% of the time.

  11. I wish that was the case.
    Last season of WoD Rotation bots and kickbots rained supreme for over 1.5 years.
    Fly hackers were in RBGs for the entirety of WoD

    Bot bans are a rarity on Retail as of the past 3 expansions.

    There have been several game breaking bugs at the minute on retail, a few examples:
    Demon Hunter eye beam's channel will always stop halfway through the channel
    Rain from above (an ability that makes you fly into the sky and launch down felbolts) will break if you hit anything above you and you float down unable to cast
    A couple of quests have been bugged since beta
    Back when Demo locks had their leap, 90% of the time it would DC you
    Fel Rush will DC 99% of the time.
    Yeah but who cares about the last 3 expansions? Mostly only kids play now, and they gotta let the kids have what they want or they throw temper tantrums. Plus gold is incredibly easy to get on retail now, it wasn't in vanilla/Burning Crusade/Wrath of the Lich King. And the bots are ruining everything on Icecrown, I see several everytime I try to farm.

    P.S. I miss you, Dani nub <3

  12. Yeah but who cares about the last 3 expansions? Mostly only kids play now, and they gotta let the kids have what they want or they throw temper tantrums. Plus gold is incredibly easy to get on retail now, it wasn't in vanilla/Burning Crusade/Wrath of the Lich King. And the bots are ruining everything on Icecrown, I see several everytime I try to farm.

    P.S. I miss you, Dani nub <3
    Hey there's still a fair few adults left playing rofl :P From what most of us have worked out, mass bot bans don't ever happen until there's a sale on shortly afterwards, but I guess that could all be tinfoil hat conspiracies. Yeah I guess since I was only a newb in Wrath I can't really give my input but ah well

    Miss you too! And Adam </3

  13. Not intended change, the correct rates are now in effect and working. We just had to reload a few tables to make sure everything goes through.
    Thank the bajesus. I was seriously considering never leveling a profession again when i discovered it was at 1x rate last night.

  14. How about you open a new realm with x12 or something on it and allow transfers all along :) It's gonna make Icecrown less populated and that server would probably be more pvp-oriented than any you guys have :)

  15. I can understand the gold and proffession rates being dropped,however I am sure that number of nods should be increased to even it up a little bit.
    What I dont understand is why did u reduced reputation rates ?! They were great way to get some starting gear and , most of all , achievment points for all of us who want titles and all of other people who want achevment points for the sake of points they get on site. You do remember that u need 5k achiev points to get the Legate rank(1.2 points per day) and with reduced reputations to x3 rate makes it much harder and longer and thats not what people want when playing private server. Also you have to keep in mind that reputations dont affect economy in any way like gold and poffesion rates do.
    Push reputation back to x7 !

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