Melee comp changes in Soloque

[coffeymug]

Anyone who used to play on Arena Tournament remembers that Soloque once consisted of a caster/healer/melee.

The downside to that system is that if we were short on casters or healers then the entire que was bogged down by it. I have a suggestion that I think will help.

I believe the following comps should not be allowed as a group in Soloque;

Healer/Warrior/Death Knight
Healer/Warrior/Rogue
Healer/Warrior/Ret Paladin
Healer/Warrior/Feral Druid
Healer/Warrior/Enhance Shaman
Healer/Death Knight/Rogue
Healer/Death Knight/Ret Paladin
Healer/Death Knight/Feral Druid
Healer/Death Knight/Enhance Shaman
Healer/Rogue/Ret Paladin
Healer/Rogue/Feral Druid
Healer/Rogue/Enhance Shaman
Healer/Ret Paladin/Feral Druid
Healer/Ret Paladin/Enhance Shaman
Healer/Feral Druid/Enhance Shaman

If you are a Discipline Priest and you que against DK/Warrior/Holy Paladin you know that it's pretty much game over. The style of gameplay that occurs with these comps is a horrendous mess. It's facerolling nonsense that has no skill involved whatsoever.

Soloque games should last a minute or two in the least, but if you get a good Healer/DK/Rogue team it can be over in seconds.

If we make these changes I firmly believe we'll get more healers to que in Soloque. It will be a positive feedback loop. Even if this might cause some delay when there are very few people queing I think the improvement in the quality of games will be absolutely worth it.

Examples of comps that should be allowed;

Healer/Hunter/Rogue
Healer/Hunter/Ret Paladin
Healer/Hunter/Death Knight
Healer/Hunter/Warrior
Healer/Hunter/Enhancement Shaman
Healer/Hunter/Feral Druid

This is effectively turning the hunter into a "caster" and returning to the old system of Soloque. The problem is going to be R Shaman/Hunter/Death Knight versus Disc/Mage/Ret Paladin or H Paladin/Hunter/Feral Druid versus R Druid/S Priest/Mage. The latter comps are too soft or lack the proper cohesion to pull off a win. I'm not saying that they need to be removed, but some consideration should be made for teams that have no "umph" or aggressive power.

Maybe teams that are deemed weak could receive a very small buff similar to 3v3.

I would like to know what you all think and if this is a feasible change.

[theforgotten1]

Blackrock already has slow SQ queues, so if you make it MCH it's going to take much longer for the system to find games.

Also making hunter a caster is one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard. By your logic, I'd love to make Warlocks a Melee so I can get only spellcleaves.

Last season: 2 priests in top 5 SQ (rank1 was a priest), 2 holy paladins and 1 rdruid top 20. By the stats, priest is the best SQ healer. If they can do it, everyone can do it

[Peonstompergodx]

disc is the best healer in sq because of the FFA format, wizcleaves are dominating the top, which makes disc the best healer in top, LSPriest > LSD > LSP in wiz matchups, hpal mainly functions as a counter to melee cleaves

only people stuck on 2k whine about melee cleaves, the reason to go back to MCH would be to remove wizcleaves

[coffeymug]

"Blackrock already has slow SQ queues, so if you make it MCH it's going to take much longer for the system to find games."

Why does it have slow ques? You are making the assumption that it would take longer to get into games instead of the amount of people queuing changing, the classes that are popular, the number of healers, and that the overall length of games could potentially be longer.

"Also making hunter a caster is one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard."

It's about what classes can kite and play defensively against the melee classes. It's also about who can CC and peel.

"By the stats, priest is the best SQ healer."

I'm not here trying to buff Priests. I am simply stating that having double melee is a catastrophe.

"disc is the best healer in sq because of the FFA format [...] only people stuck on 2k whine about melee cleaves, the reason to go back to MCH would be to remove wizcleaves"

Effectively your argument is that because we don't have a better way of balancing out Soloque compositions we are going to resort to letting people be steamrolled by DK/Warrior and Rogue/Enhance?

Those who are in the lower brackets are more at risk because their teammates don't know how to CC and peel.

If you are advocating against the removal of wizard cleaves then you're just supporting the idea of returning to a Healer/Caster/Melee system.

[theforgotten1]

What are you talking about? Seeing how you get more and more into this debate makes me think you're clueless, playing priest and stuck at low ratings, coming on forums and asking for "balace" (which is also an assumption) so you can can higher.

As a last reply here, when it was MCH, it was because it was a new feature, a lot of people played AT. After all, SQ is a feature to help people learn 3v3 and if you think facing only MCH will boost up your skill then I tell you it's not. Back then people were QQing about warr/ele and hunter/ele so no matter what meta it will be, people will always complain.

Cheers

[Roare]

I can tell for a fact that i have no desire of playing soloque in the FFA format and multiple people who i play with have stated the same. You are missing at least a hundred people off the ques just becouse it is a fking mess. MCH is the only way to go and promoting spellcleaves or meleecleaves has and will always be ******ed.

[Peonstompergodx]

Those who are in the lower brackets are more at risk because their teammates don't know how to CC and peel.

The games balance shouldn't and wont revolve around low rated players, so git gud

[ssoro]

if this realm gets worked on one day and truly reaches at least 1500 players at peak hours consistently, then putting back the composition format to mch-only will be appropriate, but until then i recommend to simply reduce the damage of double melee and double caster comps by 12.5%

2 other things that were never addressed are to disable double ms comps (arms warrior, hunter, rogue) and enabling mancleave

[Peonstompergodx]

2 other things that were never addressed are to disable double ms comps (arms warrior, hunter, rogue) and enabling mancleave

yes less bad and more good matchups for arms warriors - because fun

[ssoro]

hey peonstomper, hum disabling double ms comps would not only mean less bad comps for arms warriors but also less bad comps for all 3 hunter specs and less bad comps for all 3 rogue specs, and so theres not any sort of buff specifically toward arms warrior with that like you tried to imply

as for the more good comps for arms warriors thing that you wrote well theres just nothing that can justify allowing every single melee spec of the game (turbo/tsg/kitty/rpal+arms/ppal+arms) to play with an arms warrior while having a specific exception for mancleave
unless you personally honestly think that mancleave is an imbalanced comp in comparison with all the already enabled ones, and if you truly believe such a thing then lets just agree to disagree

fact is the people that coded the 3v3 comp restrictions did not have mancleave disabled because of balance concerns, but simply because they didnt even know its a viable comp
either way it doesnt seem reasonable to me to say that mancleave doesnt have its place in a 3v3 environment that already has php/bc/jungle/atc/phd and so on, but i respect your opinion

[Peonstompergodx]

hey peonstomper, hum disabling double ms comps would not only mean less bad comps for arms warriors but also less bad comps for all 3 hunter specs and less bad comps for all 3 rogue specs, and so theres not any sort of buff specifically toward arms warrior with that like you tried to imply

still a buff to arms, even if it also buffs rogues & hunters, look at the ladder now and imagine a ladder where arms warriors can't get any bad comps

fact is the people that coded the 3v3 comp restrictions did not have mancleave disabled because of balance concerns, but simply because they didnt even know its a viable comp

false, it's simply because they disabled all class stacking

[ssoro]

still a buff to arms indeed, yet in your original message you solely mentioned arms warriors; written as such that original message has the reader understanding that you do not acknowledge how that change would actually also buff 6 other specs of the game
that being said im glad to now learn that you do acknowledge this

as for what you just said basically about some arms warrior 3v3 comps being overpowered in your opinion (when talking about the current state of warriors on the ladder), well rather than suggesting to enable significantly weaker/senseless comps for the arms spec (resulting in impacting a total of 7 specs of the game with a pretty unfair and annoying approach in comparison with all other classes), i recommend that you instead create a topic in which you clearly state what are the specific arms warrior 3v3 comps you believe overpowered exactly and then fairly suggest the damage percentage reductions you believe would be appropriate to balance those

im not sure what you tried to say when responding to your second quote of me, im feeling there might be a misunderstanding so i will just rephrase that quote slightly differently;

fact is the people that disabled all class stacking without putting an exception for mancleave didnt do so because of balance concerns, but simply because they didnt even know its a viable comp

[Sinfulpirate]

didn't bother to read anything past the title because I know this will never happen.

[coffeymug]

2 priests in top 5 SQ (rank1 was a priest), 2 holy paladins and 1 rdruid top 20. By the stats, priest is the best SQ healer. If they can do it, everyone can do it

disc is the best healer in sq because of the FFA format, wizcleaves are dominating the top, which makes disc the best healer in top

According to this the top Soloque healer is a Restoration Shaman.

http://armory.warmane.com/character/...ckrock/summary

I can tell for a fact that i have no desire of playing soloque in the FFA format and multiple people who i play with have stated the same. You are missing at least a hundred people off the ques just becouse it is a fking mess. MCH is the only way to go and promoting spellcleaves or meleecleaves has and will always be ******ed.

if this realm gets worked on one day and truly reaches at least 1500 players at peak hours consistently, then putting back the composition format to mch-only will be appropriate, but until then i recommend to simply reduce the damage of double melee and double caster comps by 12.5%

I agree with Soro. I think that if we reduced the damage of double melee comps could be a solution to the problem.

I think many people want to see things change. The fact that we have 30 or 50 DPS queuing to play but no healers or only two is concerning. When a new player rolls a Disc Priest or a Resto Druid then they come across a DK/Warrior or Enhancement/Rogue team I'm sure it becomes really uninteresting extremely fast and leaves them with no desire to keep practicing.

Soloque should be a place where skill and teamwork are essential and not reliant on the "roll of the dice" in terms of team composition.

I would love for Malaco to make a statement about this and describe why this is possible or why it is not.

[theforgotten1]

according to simple logic, you're clueless. why would you look at the SQ ladder when season is not even at its half and say that shaman is the top healer. nice bias you have there.

also , pvp is never balanced by looking/listening at 1.9k rated players/games. tbh i don't even know why i'm trying to talk to you when you say hunter should be considered a caster.