Points shop

[SilverFlash]

The Shadowmourne quest and the Val'anyr quest lines can be both completed by simply PMing me or Aldtharios. There's only one issue with Shadowmourne that needs to be fixed. As matter of fact, we'll try to get it out today.

So I'll just have to pm either of you with a ss at Y-S with the 25 fragments in bag?Wonderful ^^.Also,will it be the same for SHM?

[SilverFlash]

And don't pretend that there aren't private servers without a cash shop that operate just fine.

I could name one,less population ofc,but it's because it's not international.All we have there are mounts,vanity items and character trade besides skipping ques-characters are VERY costly,but it's understandable-you have to grind your gear besides the achievments.

[SilverFlash]

The old voteshop won't be back. The point shop 2.0 will only feature northrend epic gear up to toc 10 N

Which is worse than FoS-PoS-HoR gear in 99% of the cases-mostly the shields are worthy of grinding,nothing else.

[magaginho]

I never mentioned how easy to gear with points,but I'll give you that,its very easy(though a full 25n bis takes a year or so).But still,pug leaders won't change their minds-achievment,high gear or GTFO attitude will stay,no matter what(sometimes they don't accept even mains achievment).I don't mind removing the shop,but it won't change a thing,pug leaders will still ask for ridicolous gear,ar achievments they obtained when things werent working even close to how they should.So does guilds-they need high geared people to down stuff,not someone with let's say full 10m gear.IMO the point shop only helped those who had game knowledge before obtaining the items,bad players would be booted from the instance nonetheless how much gear they have-free or bought.And what does the double ICC means?Yes,it makes grinding easier than it should be,so it could be fixed on the same note.Also,there are no mobile donations aviable from my country,paymentwall is declined for me too-only thing thats left is my cc,which got denied too.The only way would be to change banks,which would mean worse conditions for me.

You're wrong in many ways. Allow me to show you the other side of the cube;

Getting a character up to an average of 5.5k to 6k Gearscore takes you, under normal circumstances, two months if you don't want to try that hard. Why? Let me tell you why: You can run Icecrown Citadel 10 Normal and Heroic in the same week. You can also run Icecrown Citadel 25 Normal and Heroic in the same week. If you down every single boss of every single instance that gives 72 Emblems of Frost only through Icecrown Citadel. Now let's add the 2 extra frosties per RDF; (7 days x 2 badges = 14) so we're already on an average of 86 emblems. Now let's add it the weekly quest: 91 Emblems of Frost in one week. Now let's add Ruby Sanctum to the equation (and I'm only going to count 25 Normal for this since Heroic is not on farm for most guilds) - 5 Emblems of Frost after downing Halion and consequent mini-bosses; That's a grand total of 96 emblems in a week. You don't need a year if you explore all the resources available in-game to make your grind faster than usual.

Now adressing the situation you were approaching,

Pug leaders have that mentality of asking high gearscore, that is correct. However, have you questioned yourself why? Because everyone had access to free ICC gear through the vote point system. I don't recall seeing more than 10 characters per day that don't have their secondary BiS weapon or secondary BiS trinkets. Everyone is rocking those and they don't even deserve it because they never grinded the instances as they should. However, considering that from now on you'll have to grind for the gear the pug leaders will start to drop that Gearscore barrier in a slow and steady rythm. People will start showing up with their well earned ICC gear and that immediatly represents that they've grinded the content and they have the gear as a proof of what they know and are capable of. It's a slowly and steady process that will start to change the mentality and capability of the community in general if properly embraced. However, instead of looking to this side of the cube people are acting like Warmane is taking away something that is mandatory for the content to be functional.

Also about your donation problem: There are ways around it, I can guarantee you that with a 100% accuracy.

And don't pretend that there aren't private servers without a cash shop that operate just fine.

There ISN'T a single server that survives without any kind of source of income. Why in the world would you sustain a highly dedicated server from your own wallet? Because you want to be a good samaritan? Do you honestly believe in what you just typed?

[Kings1ayer]

I could name one,less population ofc,but it's because it's not international.All we have there are mounts,vanity items and character trade besides skipping ques-characters are VERY costly,but it's understandable-you have to grind your gear besides the achievments.

The current biggest Vanilla (it's international) server is without a cash shop and as was the biggest Vanilla server before that one.

[Kasumii]

The current biggest Vanilla (it's international) server is without a cash shop and as was the biggest Vanilla server before that one.

I can only think of 3 big vanilla servers, 1 of which is gone cause lol blizzard (or so they claim). The other 2 are mediocre at best and don't have anywhere near the population that Warmane does.

The other remaining 2 servers don't pay their developers and their scripts aren't that great despite having been out for several years now. Also, you should look into hosting and what it costs to host a server. Don't forget to consider that you have IP laws to worry about, so your hosting service has to be outside US jurisdiction and influence.

When you're done, tell me if you're really willing to support those costs from your own wallet.

[Kings1ayer]

@Magaginho, you're talking about 5.5-6k, i was talking about bis , which is totally different. And Nostalrius maintained a huge server without a cash shop which is what i was talkig about, so don't tell me it can't be done.

[Kasumii]

And Nostalrius maintained a huge server without a cash shop which is what i was talkig about, so don't tell me it can't be done.

Okay so you decided to mention the server name that's no longer around. I played on that server and it was terrible. Completely and absolutely terrible. When it comes to false promises about fixes and time lines this server takes the cake. AV released in the same state and with the same issues from their PTR (most of which weren't that hard to fix). BWL never made it out (should've been out 2 weeks later after Grizzly took the server first Rag), MC had a ton of bugs, many of which they had problems admitting and never completely fixed.

They had the pop, but not the talent to do things properly. They spent months trying to figure out how to implement load balancing to deal with the lag issues which was also never completely resolved. So yes, it can be done without a point shop, but what kind of quality do you get in return? I guess for some people this didn't matter cause it was all about the 'vanilla' experience, but they took a lot of credit for things they did half-assed or not at all.

[vieiraj]

And Nostalrius maintained a huge server without a cash shop

Where this unplayable lagging crap now ?

[Proterean]

I am not sure where this discussion is going but it's drifting away from the initial topic. The amount of people in-game that said "how else are we supposed to get these items?" are the largest issue and this sense of security of not having to play the actual game to actually gain something is not good.

When people donate, they give an equivalent of their time in funds to maintain the server. They don't do as much a favor to us as much as they're doing to the community for keeping this place alive. The costs that involve having customer service staff, high-end machines (best we can get), backups, professional development and testing are astronomical. Without the donors, this whole thing wouldn't exist at all.

People like to use examples of other servers, but fail to comprehend that other servers don't provide anything in return to people who work for them in most cases and resolve to shadier and worse methods of obtaining funds to run their stuff. Not to mention, lack of commitment towards the server and even in the smallest chance of turmoil or displeasure they shut down the server. As seen from the past, we are committed and we make our own sacrifices (selling our property, time and life) to maintain the realms if needed even in times of great dire need as we had last year. I've seen this personally happen to 5 different places. They're not comparable to us. We do things differently.

When you obtain something from the points, you don't give anything in return to Warmane. This was a gift system intended to help the players for a little while, it lasted for a year and now is the time to remove it. It's not doing any good to anyone other than those that wanted stuff for free and did not want to work for it in any relevant way.

[magaginho]

@Magaginho, you're talking about 5.5-6k, i was talking about bis , which is totally different. And Nostalrius maintained a huge server without a cash shop which is what i was talkig about, so don't tell me it can't be done.

Even obtaining BiS gear isn't that long. It's really easy to reach that status under current circumstances (ID's not generating as intended). The example that I provided still applies to the whole logic you're trying to follow.

To the Nostalrius point I'll tell you this;

They still asked for funds to pay the maintenance of the server itself and as you can see they're no longer around. You also can see a lot of people stating that the experience was not the finest either. One thing is keeping a server floating other thing is making it work 100% as intended.

[Kings1ayer]

Well it just goes to show that private servers aren't just about the quality. They had the bigger population because dispite the issues, people liked playing on their servers, which is what WoW is really about. It was a lagfest bcs they had too many players and that's exactly why Icecrown has a queue. Nost chose lag over a big queue, which i don't agree with, but where did i say they were perfect. I just said that a server without pay to win could exist.

[Kings1ayer]

Even obtaining BiS gear isn't that long. It's really easy to reach that status under current circumstances (ID's not generating as intended). The example that I provided still applies to the whole logic you're trying to follow.

To the Nostalrius point I'll tell you this;

They still asked for funds to pay the maintenance of the server itself and as you can see they're no longer around. You also can see a lot of people stating that the experience was not the finest either. One thing is keeping a server floating other thing is making it work 100% as intended.

In the previous posts my point was exactly that there are players who gave them money to maintain the server even though it didn't give them anything ingame. And saying that Nost was keeping a float is ridiculous, they were the biggest server, which is far from keeping a float.

[crabmandu]

This is literal ***. Pigeon holed again bois. Glad I just got my STS the other day, sucks for the rest of yall waiting on them 29pts.

[Kasumii]

I just said that a server without pay to win could exist.

It can't exist without the community willingly donating the amount of money it takes to keep a server alive as well as pay the staff and developers who work on the project. Have you looked at hosting costs yet? Do you know the average amount of donations a server without an item shop makes a month? Can you support the hosting costs, hardware, staff, developers, and do proper testing?

And saying that Nost was keeping a float is ridiculous, they were the biggest server, which is far from keeping a float.

Most people in the private server community aren't very willing to give money without getting something in return. I've heard this no pay to win argument before, it rarely (if ever) works out well for servers in the long run. The servers that do have no pay to win that are still around, are usually poorly scripted. Again, this comes back to the concept of 'quality'. If quality doesn't matter to you, then perhaps this isn't the server to be playing on if pay to win bothers you so much.

Nost also lied about most of their work and didn't deliver on the promises they made. The only thing that server had going for them was population but the quality was terrible. Nost didn't keep afloat, if they had they wouldn't have shutdown. They finally caved either from a letter or not having the funds to support the server anymore (we'll probably never know)