Why is my Rogue so weak?

[speifer10]

Etzieo's Armory

Please see my armory ^

I'll be talking about Arena 2v2 in general.

I don't know why but i feel like my rogue is so weak. He currently has 1,010 resilience, 4,830 AP Unbuffed, and 32.01% ArP. It's really difficult to be able to get a proper set up on most Arena matches, and I get killed super duper quick. It's not even funny.

Depending on the situation, i either stunlock to let my partner kill, or I bleed my enemies when we can go for a kill. Anyhow, my damage is SO LOW (averaging 5k - 15k damage done in Arena 2v2), and I get killed SO DAMN FAST. I barely even have time to pop a blind or gouge. Evasion would almost always be instantly up when the stun is gone as I get killed REALLY FAST.

I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I've played Rogue before (Molten days), and I can tell you it's waaaay different from then and now. Can someone please educate me or bring me up to date on how Rogues should be played now?

[KimberlyHart]

Because you are the one playing it.

[Sly]

Wow Kimberly, that has to take the cake for being the douchiest reply ever.

I hope you feel accomplished.

@speifer10: Rogues die super fast, so I know what you mean. No amount of resilience is going to keep you alive. Work on trying to get that armor pen up higher. I have around 77% with 5.6k AP, you could stand to have better gemming. +20 arp in all sockets wouldn't hurt. Grind out wrathful off-pieces. Aside from that. You are probably slightly out of practice as well. I would do duels with people, and once you are able to consistently win then you will know you have improved.

Here is my armory to see what a "BiS" pve/pvp mix rogue looks like. We are even squishier but as a rogue, you do not take damage - if you are, then you are doing it wrong. http://armory.warmane.com/character/...ecrown/summary

[WolfCD]

Play with a class that can heal you instead of a warlock untill you get a lot better (spriest, feral, ele ..), and if you do no damage you are doing something wrong, 5k-15k damage are 1-3 ambushes, if you seriously cant get more damaging abilities out then that you are playing seriously wrong.

[itsyouitsme]

Play with a class that can heal you instead of a warlock untill you get a lot better (spriest, feral, ele ..)

feral can not outheal rogue, especially against team with mortal strike effect
feral-rogue team is one of the tryhard teams on Warmane due to insane amount of bis holypaladins: you have to burts *****es down incredible fast to bubble/bop,then survivie few seconds and finish em, or u just lose under lolmourne crits when u start playing in def
topic starter does not have gear for burst

the only his way is to find bis shadow priest who knows what to do, so they can reach 1800 for rogue gear
however, he is in need of pve items, not pvp ones
so my suggestion is - start dragongrinding untill at leats 70 arp, or open daddy's wallet - without that u can forget about sub spec - u will suffer against bis characters or tryhard much and end every figh with headache

[speifer10]

Hi everyone, thank you for all your feedback. Please keep them coming. I just want to say that your responses are not falling on deaf ears.

Please continue on providing feedback. They are all well appreciated (even the negative ones.)

[WolfCD]

feral can not outheal rogue, especially against team with mortal strike effect
feral-rogue team is one of the tryhard teams on Warmane due to insane amount of bis holypaladins: you have to burts *****es down incredible fast to bubble/bop,then survivie few seconds and finish em, or u just lose under lolmourne crits when u start playing in def
topic starter does not have gear for burst

the only his way is to find bis shadow priest who knows what to do, so they can reach 1800 for rogue gear
however, he is in need of pve items, not pvp ones
so my suggestion is - start dragongrinding untill at leats 70 arp, or open daddy's wallet - without that u can forget about sub spec - u will suffer against bis characters or tryhard much and end every figh with headache

Or you just CC the hell out of the BiS pala and kill his partner, rogue/feral has a lot of cc still and a lot of damage. And ops damage should be more then enough with another dps on the team. The point here is that with a spec that can offheal a lot, be it a ret or a feral or a spriest rogue survivability which already is quite good goes through the roof. Which makes its a lot easier compared to playing with a 0 offheal spec that also relies on a lot of cc and setups.

[purr4g]

Wow Kimberly, that has to take the cake for being the douchiest reply ever.

So saying the truth makes some one worthless and/or beneath consideration?
Look at OP's gear; if he's good and gets a decent partner they can get 2k+ without breaking a sweat.

TBH, if he's having issues hitting 1950+ with that gear, then the easiest option to get 1950 would be to simplify everything: Respec + gem to pvp Assa, get a decent healer. Tunnel some ****, maybe switch sometimes. GG.

P.S. Am i the only one who is always amused by the paradox of calling someone a douche?
(One is giving enough consideration to someone, to point out that they are beneath consideration.)

P.P.S.
Sly, your rogue is not an example of "bis" pve/pvp mix, to be that you would need to replace your TWO?! jc gems with 34arp and one of your epic gems with 34arp JC gem then you would need to get Sindra HC neck, RS25HC ring, Wrath shoulders and Gunship HC 1.5speed axe (the axe is a particularly minor point, but when one starts to bandy about terms like BiS, one should expect to be called out on the really minor points, as well as the more important ones.)

Furthermore, DBW HC is one of the 2nd slot "bis" trinkets, however both DV HC and WFS HC can be superior depending on comp and playstyle, I feel this should be pointed out since many people think that the DBW HC 2nd trink choice is clear, when it is only "clear" when you consider only the minor un-proced flat damage advantage and ignore the negatives of a haste proc.

P.P.P.S.
Both your sub specs on Spyz are ... "interesting".

[itsyouitsme]

can offheal a lot, be it a ret or a feral

feral can offheal a lot ?
that something really new

Sly, your rogue is not an example of "bis" pve/pvp mix

24 crit rating enchant on boots says a lot about rogue's owner

[Ricks2]

@speifer10: Rogues die super fast, so I know what you mean. No amount of resilience is going to keep you alive. Work on trying to get that armor pen up higher. I have around 77% with 5.6k AP, you could stand to have better gemming. +20 arp in all sockets wouldn't hurt. Grind out wrathful off-pieces. Aside from that.

Armor pen is literally a dead stat to socket if you run full PvP. Might aswell commit to AP socketing like it was common back on retail. Arp became popular due to how easily available BiS items are on this server, he's far from even reaching the level to make it viable.

24 crit rating enchant on boots says a lot about rogue's owner

He's clearly not min maxing his char for arena, nor is he an arena hero to begin with. There's nothing wrong running BGs or PvE with nitro boots.

[Thydus]

feral can offheal a lot ?
that something really new


24 crit rating enchant on boots says a lot about rogue's owner

Passive Healing: http://wotlk.openwow.com/spell=34300
Instant cast: regrowth / rejuv
Feral can be 1 of the best support class's while also pressuring with massive burst / multi target bleeds

[itsyouitsme]

Passive Healing:
Instant cast: regrowth / rejuv
Feral can be 1 of the best support class's while also pressuring with massive burst / multi target bleeds

multi arget bleeds... jesus ****ing christ

we have reached 1800 rating in feral rogue within a week with 68% winrate, rogue was 40% arp Ah geared, feral was rele/pve AH mix
and i tell u its is ****ing NIGHTMARE to play against bis warpals (more then half teams we have met) even with perfect voice coordination
setup is hard because one mistake from rogue will lead to lose compare to SpRog
every ****ing fight was based on incredible good coordination and wise cooldowns usage by rogue (this setup is 80% about rogue work), because, once again, on Icecrown rogue lives till he has cooldowns and does not recieve damage, if rogue starts recieving damage (he wasted cooldowns or bad) he will be **** raped regardless of feral healing

all that feral can do - disable main danger via 5 sec stun or 6 sec cyclone and try to outheal bleeding rogue
so you have 6 seconds to outheal rogue (if warrior's teammate a complete downer)
BIS feral with 1800 agility has 1200 bonus healing, 3500 nourish (with hot up), 3200 regrowth + 500 per tick
u have to spend 3 GCD (full cyclone effect) to outheal one overpower IF ROGUE HAD NOT MS EFFECT (warrior was ******ed with 0 MS management)

once again, in Icecrown reality feralrogue has two options how to play:
1) spend cooldowns wisely, play very carefully and very offensive - win
2) start defing (healing, saving with cyclone) and lose

for option #1 u have to be bis geared or very coordinated while fighting noobs
otherwise u will lose to any team with bis holy paladin - one mistake, one clever bop and you are humped
feral healing can not be compared to priest one, even closer

Passive Healing: Improved Leader of the Pack

kek

[WolfCD]

multi arget bleeds... jesus ****ing christ

we have reached 1800 rating in feral rogue within a week with 68% winrate, rogue was 40% arp Ah geared, feral was rele/pve AH mix
and i tell u its is ****ing NIGHTMARE to play against bis warpals (more then half teams we have met) even with perfect voice coordination
setup is hard because one mistake from rogue will lead to lose compare to SpRog
every ****ing fight was based on incredible good coordination and wise cooldowns usage by rogue (this setup is 80% about rogue work), because, once again, on Icecrown rogue lives till he has cooldowns and does not recieve damage, if rogue starts recieving damage (he wasted cooldowns or bad) he will be **** raped regardless of feral healing

all that feral can do - disable main danger via 5 sec stun or 6 sec cyclone and try to outheal bleeding rogue
so you have 6 seconds to outheal rogue (if warrior's teammate a complete downer)
BIS feral with 1800 agility has 1200 bonus healing, 3500 nourish (with hot up), 3200 regrowth + 500 per tick
u have to spend 3 GCD (full cyclone effect) to outheal one overpower IF ROGUE HAD NOT MS EFFECT (warrior was ******ed with 0 MS management)

once again, in Icecrown reality feralrogue has two options how to play:
1) spend cooldowns wisely, play very carefully and very offensive - win
2) start defing (healing, saving with cyclone) and lose

for option #1 u have to be bis geared or very coordinated while fighting noobs
otherwise u will lose to any team with bis holy paladin - one mistake, one clever bop and you are humped
feral healing can not be compared to priest one, even closer

Its not about totally outhealing the damage (although iirc doesnt healing touch heal for like 8k or so, you really shouldnt die till the feral ooms?) its about supporting rogue survivability to a spot where it good enough. If you play with a lock and you eat 1 charge + MS + Overpower and have a rend on you the game is over even if you play perfectly afterwards - you have 0 ways to recover. If you play with any class that can offheal a bit you can recover. Im not saying that feral/rogue is better then spriest/rogue for double dps, but the idea that you need BiS just to stand a chance is totally wrong.

If you are playing good enough and are coordinating enough you can win just with the pvp set + AP gems, you really dont need to have BiS and there are more ways to win then just burst them down instantly.



The OP is asking why he is dying so fast, the answer is thats its mostly because he is playing with a class that doesnt offheal and support him enough. And once you add offhealing of any kind to the rogues CDs and mobility the survivability goes up a TON.

[Thydus]

multi arget bleeds... jesus ****ing christ

we have reached 1800 rating in feral rogue within a week with 68% winrate, rogue was 40% arp Ah geared, feral was rele/pve AH mix
and i tell u its is ****ing NIGHTMARE to play against bis warpals (more then half teams we have met) even with perfect voice coordination
setup is hard because one mistake from rogue will lead to lose compare to SpRog
every ****ing fight was based on incredible good coordination and wise cooldowns usage by rogue (this setup is 80% about rogue work), because, once again, on Icecrown rogue lives till he has cooldowns and does not recieve damage, if rogue starts recieving damage (he wasted cooldowns or bad) he will be **** raped regardless of feral healing

all that feral can do - disable main danger via 5 sec stun or 6 sec cyclone and try to outheal bleeding rogue
so you have 6 seconds to outheal rogue (if warrior's teammate a complete downer)
BIS feral with 1800 agility has 1200 bonus healing, 3500 nourish (with hot up), 3200 regrowth + 500 per tick
u have to spend 3 GCD (full cyclone effect) to outheal one overpower IF ROGUE HAD NOT MS EFFECT (warrior was ******ed with 0 MS management)

once again, in Icecrown reality feralrogue has two options how to play:
1) spend cooldowns wisely, play very carefully and very offensive - win
2) start defing (healing, saving with cyclone) and lose

for option #1 u have to be bis geared or very coordinated while fighting noobs
otherwise u will lose to any team with bis holy paladin - one mistake, one clever bop and you are humped
feral healing can not be compared to priest one, even closer


kek

So apart from being triggered as ****, tell me when i ever compared a feral's ability to heal to a priest? do you make up random **** in your ****ed up head?
You talk about bis burst play style and neglect cyclone? yup im done your completely ****ing ******ed.

[itsyouitsme]

If you are playing good enough and are coordinating enough you can win just with the pvp set + AP gems

not as sub spec topic starter is playing
healing touch heals 7-8k only when critical without MS effect

You talk about bis burst play style and neglect cyclone?

where i said ferals should neglect cyclone ?
was no expecting *****s in this topic so i should have mentioned every feral standart ability he has to use
now when you are here, ill explain more carefully i promise

yup im done

ow, you are not here anymore
bye