1. It doesnt work since years.
    The fact that this bug also existed on retail doesn't mean that it isnt a bug or do u really think that it was intended by Blizz that mages can do that?
    It did work for about 4-5 months. (:

  2. And...in terms of your ttw/ffb topic i'd like to point out darkendhue's statement, because he/she just said all you gotta know about slows triggering ttw.

    If you're playing in a raid where neither the tank nor anyone else is always debuffing the boss with a -20% attack speed slow you have far greater problems than DPS.

  3. Read the talent description again but this time to look closely: http://wotlk.openwow.com/spell=53696
    All kind of judgements apply the debuff.
    http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=325563 - check the talent trees. After that google the protection paladin guides and you will see that pals don't use jj, because 1) pals plan to have the debuff from other sources (dks) 2) it is mostly a pvp talent

    So what? Who cares about trash mobs that die in few seconds? Only thing that matters is that the debuff is on the boss.
    Cmon, your point is - "ttw always outperforms ffb", and you say this?

    It doesnt work since years.
    The fact that this bug also existed on retail doesn't mean that it isnt a bug or do u really think that it was intended by Blizz that mages can do that?
    It did work for about 4-5 months. (:
    And yet u bring only far fetched arguments mixed with incorrect claims.
    Where did i add any fetched argument or incorrect claims? All i wrote is from my own expirience and knowledge as how it is.

  4. http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=325563 - check the talent trees. After that google the protection paladin guides and you will see that pals don't use jj, because 1) pals plan to have the debuff from other sources (dks) 2) it is mostly a pvp talent
    It used to be an unpopular talent because it would be resisted by bosses. Now, people don't take it too often because there is usually a DK providing it.

  5. And...in terms of your ttw/ffb topic i'd like to point out darkendhue's statement, because he/she just said all you gotta know about slows triggering ttw.
    It's like, once i joined some os 10 run, and it was actually a mount run. There was no spriest/boomkin/dk, tanks were prot pal and war, and all other dpses were melee exc 1 hunter (hunters don't want to use traps on bosses, you know). After first try leader started to ask me why is my dps so small (5-7k) if i'm bis geared, i pointed that it is cuz of such raid setup he made. You know what? Leader started to claim that i'm just a noob, and after 1 more try he kicked me. Also i talked to another guy in there, he told me that after 1 another try leader left saying "you all are noobs" (while he didn't really know what exactly to do there) and it was ro :D

    Sometimes not activated ttw happens and it's not pleasant.

    I'm trying to say, that if you are casual player and not a mindless dps racer - FFB is a pretty good one.
    Like - better mana management, less agrro, slow+freeze are very very handy on some encounters, it doesn't require you to worry about anything, easier to handle with procs. Your overral dps will be 2-3k less (on adds it will be better), but burst under bl/hero is same cuz of veins. I have a frost pvp os, and i'm achie nerd - after respecing in ttw bc hc dungeons took x2 more time. Lazy people like me to make their own rd groups, are joining rdf pretty often. When u get x2 3.5-4k gs dpses and no ttw activated - dungeon can become very boring.

    No need to go FFB at all because TTW always outperforms it.
    FFB is too convinient to say that it doesn't worth any look only cuz there is a TTW.
    Edited: December 6, 2016

  6. No hard feelings but if a paladin tank doesnt have Judgment of the Just, its a bad paladin tank. Relying on others to bring the debuff as important as 20% slower attack on the target thats hitting u, while u can do it urself is worst thing u can do as a tank, or as any kind of raid member. What if u main tanked the whole run and u have to offtank LK and Shamblings rape u? Go respec every time before a boss u have to do something ur special spec is not build for? I wont even talk about how important it is if u can stun every valk wave...
    Its like boomies skipping the talent [Improved Faerie Fire], to get 1% more dps, cos there will always be a shadowpriest + retri paladin that will bring 3% hit and 3% crit on the table, right? What if they die? Or u have to switch to a target they cant dps?

    On the topic:
    Arcane will top DPS on short, single target DPS fights. High burst, short CDs.
    TTW outperforms FFB on longer fights as long as there is something to keep [Torment the Weak] active.
    FFB is the easyest to play tbh and doesnt require anything for u to deal good amount of DMG.

    In the end it all comes to what playstile u prefer the most. I personaly suck dick as TTW, mainly cos i dont have enough expirience and my RNG on those double crits is bad, so i go Arcane all the way. I dont rely on RNG crits and its more fun for me... Sometimes i have to cast 10 Arcane Blasts in order to get [Missile Barrage] but thats like on 1/100 bossses. Test each spec for 2weeks - 1month and after that play whatever gave u the highest DPS boost.

  7. Jakkre have true.
    TTW > FFB always

    But man you are stubborn, you should stop when the another say : "Oh, it is just a 0.27s longer than fireball" Somebody who don't care about 0.27s additionnal casting time, was not able to compare properly 2 specs hahaha, btw isn't the only one advantage and the most important one, but the point is someone who don't care loosing more then 1 sec every 4 spells just haven't figure it out what pve is ! I put approximatly 200 fireballs in a LK25h fight do the math....

    Tinyball



    For a little more legit on this raging post : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRViHaNtwKk
    That's what TTW can do properly used. (even better with more focusing and a 2d TTW/Arcane mage to FM you)

    About long/short fight : a good execution of your open as TTW you will even outdamage an arcane mage
    But I join Gnimo on a point TTW requierd experience to use it well (max range ****s always in order to be isolated from the raid) and a mistake of appreciation will make you shutdown your dps fastest then FFB (FFB dps is more based on your number of Crits then TTW requierd that you put maximum of Fireballs on the boss, without neglect your HS Proc and LB Uptime) But to find the hardest spec to play try to be good take a look on arcane spec where you have only 2 mooving solutions (Images mirror and Instant Arcane blast under Spiritual presence), but nobody care about arcane because Fire specs are more efficients with a decent gear.
    And remember the question was : "So I read that TTW spec are top one at near bis gear, but what about 5.6-5.8 gs range with 2pT10, is it still best spec or FFB can do more?"
    And not : Is that FFB convinient to play with.
    To give you my answer
    It depends your gear, if you have an hast oriented gear at this amount of GS continue playing arcane while you will have your 4T10
    If you play in 2T19 + 2T10 + 1 crit trinket you should have enough crit to switch on TTW (48%-50% selfbuff approximatly) at the start don't care about your haste score, if you can try to have more then 650, but isn't requierd at all,
    If you decide to play TTW do not neglect your SP !! Put 23SP on red, 12SP+10Spirit on blue and 12SP+10Crit or 12SP + 10hit on yellow (TTW have a 13-14% hit cap, he is mandatory ! ), you will most of time overdamage a Crit oriented gear.
    Edited: December 11, 2016

  8. Go arcane on low gear and TTW once u have a decent amount of crit.
    No need to go FFB at all because TTW always outperforms it.
    What about not having a DK in 10 man with TTW?

  9. What about not having a DK in 10 man with TTW?
    All tanks reduce the attack speed of the boss

  10. Well dudes I am a bis mage and I do more DPS with FFB then TTW and idk why; Maybe its cos of me :)
    But I must say im still not outdpsed by TTW mage (we all bis + they use FM on each other and have 6% crit more from it over me), especially on Lich King; Since as FFB mage you get Icy Vains CD just when you need it. (On start, then after first transition, and then after second transition). You just get perfect timings with it.
    When there is a target never moving and both specs dps it for like 10 mins without interruptions I guess TTW wins. But in actual raid encounters with dynamics I still do more with FFB.
    Also on Halion you get Icy Vains at the start of the last phase so you burst the **** out of the boss.

  11. Never seen any mage except TTW getting anywhere close to top dps. The longer the encounter the further they fall back, so I guess FFB can keep up on normal encounters to some extent. Also TTW dps LK in transitions. So, why take FFB if I can take another boomkin with pretty much same or even higher dps and I get another innervate, combat rez and starfall? Most likely you need to get better TTW mages.

  12. Well dudes I am a bis mage and I do more DPS with FFB then TTW and idk why; Maybe its cos of me :)
    But I must say im still not outdpsed by TTW mage (we all bis + they use FM on each other and have 6% crit more from it over me), especially on Lich King; Since as FFB mage you get Icy Vains CD just when you need it. (On start, then after first transition, and then after second transition). You just get perfect timings with it.
    When there is a target never moving and both specs dps it for like 10 mins without interruptions I guess TTW wins. But in actual raid encounters with dynamics I still do more with FFB.
    Also on Halion you get Icy Vains at the start of the last phase so you burst the **** out of the boss.
    Non sense comment posted on 3 years old dead thread by you. In no scenario FFB can outdps TTW especially on LOD and especially if both mages are equally skilled and wise. FFB can really do better burst cause of IV but then he will slowly fall behind TTW with the duration of the fight. While your second IV gets out of cd, TTW will be already ahead. My advise - try to play against better mages and then come here to type some really useful and correct information. Have a nice day! :)

  13. Non sense comment posted on 3 years old dead thread by you. In no scenario FFB can outdps TTW especially on LOD and especially if both mages are equally skilled and wise. FFB can really do better burst cause of IV but then he will slowly fall behind TTW with the duration of the fight. While your second IV gets out of cd, TTW will be already ahead. My advise - try to play against better mages and then come here to type some really useful and correct information. Have a nice day! :)
    My friend I am playing agains myself, I dont need another mage. Since both specs have same rotation I can't be more or less skilled then myself.
    The only thing different is gemming, so I should try gemming my mage for TTW (if it is different). But I am too lazy for that since its my 6th alt and I play it only when someone asks 1 dps @LK 10/25 N

  14. My friend I am playing agains myself, I dont need another mage. Since both specs have same rotation I can't be more or less skilled then myself.
    The only thing different is gemming, so I should try gemming my mage for TTW (if it is different). But I am too lazy for that since its my 6th alt and I play it only when someone asks 1 dps @LK 10/25 N
    Hi !

    You are competiting against yourself, well. And you are BIS. Give us number : How much dps you do on Marrow (give both your usual dps and the maximum you ever get) give us the same number for Deathbringer; Putricide and LK (at which state, dpswise, you are before the Frostmourne chamber phase).
    And at the end how many damage you made overall on LK (only LK not adds).
    When you shoot a number give us a bit of context espeacially for LK : For example : less you have efficient melee cleavers with you on LK more you will rise on DPS because your LB will have more room to do damage, and it's not about being good or not. I think everybody should prefer having a performant raid even if it mean shinning a bit less. Other type of contexe (dpswisely) : are you ahead from a large amount comparing to the other Mages, Warrriors, Udk on the recount. Because, once more, it affect will your dps output : being far ahead, mean having more room to aoe damages by LB. But it can also meaning pushing a 3:30 min encounter to 4min or even 5min : which means be on the buttom of your dps when you finish the fight.

    To summary : Give us real talk about your lvl as a FFB mage, and we'll be honored to give you numbers for TTW. You will be able to precise your idea on the topic, and maybe you will agree with us that TTW is far ahead from FFB.


    As a proof of good will, I'll give you my numbers about TTW : (the usual dps I give is + - 0.5k dps depending on RNG // and I don't say I do it every time I raid. It's just what dps I expect (and do) when a decent TTW play at BIS gear, with good concentration)

    Marrow / Usual dps as TTW : 20k / My top dps : arround 23k5 / The best dps I saw : NA
    Lady / Usual dps : 19k5 / My top dps : 21k / Best dps I saw : NA
    DBS / Usual dps : 21k / My top dps : 24k / A friend of mine did 24k5 last week and he is missing 2 BIS pieces
    Festgut / Usual : 20k / My top : 22k5 / Best I saw : 23k5
    Rotface / Usual : 20k5 / My top : 22k / Best I saw : 26k5
    PP / Usual : 18k / My top : 20k3 / Best I saw : 21k1
    BPC / Usual : 22k / My top : 25k5 / Best I saw : NA
    BQL / depend on the bite order but the best I did without any bite : 24k
    LOD / Usual : 18k5 / Best I did : 21k / Best I saw : 22k5 (on LoD I count the dps when the LK grab us for the first time in Frostmourne chamber; after that lower your dps drop better player you are, because if he drop it mean you are launching a lot of javelins in the chamber !)
    Amount of damage output overall the encounter on LK only (no adds) / usually as TTW you are someway between 7 and 9 million depending on your raid shape.


    I hope you will dedicate as many time as i did for answering :)

    See u


    Tiny

    PS : Btw gemming as TTW and FFB are similar the only difference is in the fact you must trade 3-4 potent ametrine for 3-4 veiled ametrine when you are changing spec; (sorry it's late I don't remember if it's 3 or 4 ^^ I let you count)

  15. No hard feelings but if a paladin tank doesnt have Judgment of the Just, its a bad paladin tank. Relying on others to bring the debuff as important as 20% slower attack on the target thats hitting u, while u can do it urself is worst thing u can do as a tank, or as any kind of raid member. What if u main tanked the whole run and u have to offtank LK and Shamblings rape u? Go respec every time before a boss u have to do something ur special spec is not build for? I wont even talk about how important it is if u can stun every valk wave...
    Its like boomies skipping the talent [Improved Faerie Fire], to get 1% more dps, cos there will always be a shadowpriest + retri paladin that will bring 3% hit and 3% crit on the table, right? What if they die? Or u have to switch to a target they cant dps?

    On the topic:
    Arcane will top DPS on short, single target DPS fights. High burst, short CDs.
    TTW outperforms FFB on longer fights as long as there is something to keep [Torment the Weak] active.
    FFB is the easyest to play tbh and doesnt require anything for u to deal good amount of DMG.

    In the end it all comes to what playstile u prefer the most. I personaly suck dick as TTW, mainly cos i dont have enough expirience and my RNG on those double crits is bad, so i go Arcane all the way. I dont rely on RNG crits and its more fun for me... Sometimes i have to cast 10 Arcane Blasts in order to get [Missile Barrage] but thats like on 1/100 bossses. Test each spec for 2weeks - 1month and after that play whatever gave u the highest DPS boost.
    @Gnimo, there is a reason I stopped reading forums giving my opinions. Not worth of trouble my friend.

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