WotLK Blood, Frost, Unholy. Gnimo's way of how to DK.

[Gnimo]

@Verminslayer

So, if u only raid with bad FDKs and not a single one beats u on DPS, even if i show u that Talent A is superior over Talent B u still wont belive me cos u didnt get beaten by a FDK so far?
Great logic i guess...

But i wont argue about this anymore since there is no point.
Final word about this:
Going 3/3 Subversion for the cost of BCB is an overkill. If u dont belive in my words nor in the evidance shown to u, tough luck.
Going more in Black Ice, for the cost of KM is waste of DPS aswell, i wont even compare this to BCB, since the more KM talents u have the higher the chance every Howling Blast u need for AoE will be a critical strike.
Even 1 point in COTG is better than 1 point in BI, if that doesnt speak for itself i dont know what does...

If u prove something using logic and good numbers i will say ok u are right and i would probably go full Strenght itemisation myself.
I tryed full Strength itemisations on Death Knight, Paladin, Warrior, it simply wont work.
On top of that if u focus on buffing one thing u sometimes lose overall. Thats the main reason why Berzerker enchant is not worth over Razorice. It buffs Obliterate and Melee DMG, and also other stuff a bit, but not even as close as Razorice buffs ur total Frost DMG done.

I droped the Agility enchant on cloak and got some more haste from diferent itemisation, im not mad cos i was wrong with going Crit over Haste, im actualy happy cos my dps increased a bit...

The point of this post is to try and get a perfect DK itemisation and rotation for Warmane scripts. U wont find that by ignoring facts or without trying other things urself, cos u always forget something no matter how hard u try to make a perfection.
If u go for 1/3 Subversion, 3/3 BCB, 4/5 KM (maybe even 5/5 for the cost of BI) u wont lose much. U will still do almost same DPS, u will still kill those bosses, if u dont like it respect after it, i will send u 100gold if u want to, i just cant understand why are u so closed on this topic that u wont even try, what if u gain more DPS? Is that a bad thing?



@Others

We all had some stupid talents, glyphs, rotations while we wer learning how to play our class. There is nothing bad about it tho... I personaly didnt like to read any of blizzard server guides on my way here cos i knew some of those things wont work on Warmane. Sure i got some ideas out of old guides but i tryed to change them and modify them to suit me and my playstile on this server.
I rly dont care that much how things should work or how they worked on retail or in sims. I try to focus on how things work on curent state of Warmane.
Thats why i will keep on updating, aslong as i have time, the posts about all DK specs, both DPS and tanking untill it reaches the almost blizzlike point.

[Jarjkeqt]

This is just categorically and demonstrably false. Scourge Strike is not all that complicated after all - there are already private servers out there (not affiliated to Warmane in anyway) that have thoroughly studied and investigated the quirks around the shadow damage of scourge-strike double-dipping (based off retail logs) and have coded it to near perfection. It's most certainly not meant to cause damage as if the initial scourge strike hit bypassed armor, enough log-digging would lead you to this conclusion.

I apologize then, I remembered this was the case with PvP., and I remembered Ghostcrawler talking about it somewhere.
A lot of years went on since and my memory is failing me a bit, too many expansions.

EDIT: I do remember now, point is that the shadow portion shouldn't be reduced twice, what I remembered about armor was something else from earlier patches a little bit before when the shadow portion could crit indenpendently.

I admit I made it sound more complicated than it is, eventually everything is doable. I say it as a coder myself. But I've taken a quick look through the bugtracker and it takes Warmane around 9 months to provide a solution for a fairly easy bug.

And most servers use TrinityCore, most of them just copy & paste everything and begin working on that. The bugs here are the same bugs they have in Trinity, shadow potion not hitting targets with absorb effects on them is a bug every Trinity core based server has, same goes for Penance and Mind Flay 3rd hit.

[verminslayer2]

The goal of any private server is to be as close as you can to the source, bugfixes is what makes it a World of Warcraft server.

I have absolutely no clue what work here properly and where isn't. I just recently joined Lordaeron, gave Deathwing a try a year ago and was disgusted.

And quite honestly, arguing with Icecrown players is pointless, it is a pay2win realm. I joined a guild there about a year ago called Royal Bloodline and their top DPS FDK copied his talents from a thread and had zero knowledge about any of his abilities, and that includes soaking dmg with AMS.

And their top Unholy was rolling Disease with Scourge Strike, /facepalm.

And instead of being like "This is warmane!" figure out how you class supposed to be used and work towards fixing it if it isn't.

Oh and I'd like to quote you:


So does that mean you're dog****?

Full str build with 100% arp you ****ing moron.

You just said you joined recently and you don't know whats wrong with dk's so why the **** are you giving your 2 cents that isnt worth anything?

[verminslayer2]

@Verminslayer

So, if u only raid with bad FDKs and not a single one beats u on DPS, even if i show u that Talent A is superior over Talent B u still wont belive me cos u didnt get beaten by a FDK so far?
Great logic i guess...

But i wont argue about this anymore since there is no point.
Final word about this:
Going 3/3 Subversion for the cost of BCB is an overkill. If u dont belive in my words nor in the evidance shown to u, tough luck.
Going more in Black Ice, for the cost of KM is waste of DPS aswell, i wont even compare this to BCB, since the more KM talents u have the higher the chance every Howling Blast u need for AoE will be a critical strike.
Even 1 point in COTG is better than 1 point in BI, if that doesnt speak for itself i dont know what does...

If u prove something using logic and good numbers i will say ok u are right and i would probably go full Strenght itemisation myself.
I tryed full Strength itemisations on Death Knight, Paladin, Warrior, it simply wont work.
On top of that if u focus on buffing one thing u sometimes lose overall. Thats the main reason why Berzerker enchant is not worth over Razorice. It buffs Obliterate and Melee DMG, and also other stuff a bit, but not even as close as Razorice buffs ur total Frost DMG done.

I droped the Agility enchant on cloak and got some more haste from diferent itemisation, im not mad cos i was wrong with going Crit over Haste, im actualy happy cos my dps increased a bit...

The point of this post is to try and get a perfect DK itemisation and rotation for Warmane scripts. U wont find that by ignoring facts or without trying other things urself, cos u always forget something no matter how hard u try to make a perfection.
If u go for 1/3 Subversion, 3/3 BCB, 4/5 KM (maybe even 5/5 for the cost of BI) u wont lose much. U will still do almost same DPS, u will still kill those bosses, if u dont like it respect after it, i will send u 100gold if u want to, i just cant understand why are u so closed on this topic that u wont even try, what if u gain more DPS? Is that a bad thing?



@Others

We all had some stupid talents, glyphs, rotations while we wer learning how to play our class. There is nothing bad about it tho... I personaly didnt like to read any of blizzard server guides on my way here cos i knew some of those things wont work on Warmane. Sure i got some ideas out of old guides but i tryed to change them and modify them to suit me and my playstile on this server.
I rly dont care that much how things should work or how they worked on retail or in sims. I try to focus on how things work on curent state of Warmane.
Thats why i will keep on updating, aslong as i have time, the posts about all DK specs, both DPS and tanking untill it reaches the almost blizzlike point.

Probably but i'd **** on 99% of any fdk on this server no sweat including you.

[Jarjkeqt]

Full str build with 100% arp you ****ing moron.

You just said you joined recently and you don't know whats wrong with dk's so why the **** are you giving your 2 cents that isnt worth anything?

Jesus the mouth on you, can smell the desperation all the way up here. You're right though, why do I trouble myself, peace y'all.

[Gnimo]

Probably but i'd **** on 99% of any fdk on this server no sweat including you.

Sure thing bro, especialy with 3/5 KM and 0/3 BCB, keep up with the good work. :D



Can someone calculate how much DPS u lose/gain when it comes to Bloodvenom VS Havoc in offhand?

[verminslayer]

gnimo, you struggle to even get get pass 18k dps in icc, i don't care what excuse you are using but i can tell you right now i can pull 2k+ over you easily with the build im using.

[Gnimo]

U cant even comprehend the basic math when it comes to BCB vs Subversion, i rly dont expect u to come to a realisation how Superior Orc is as a race in PvE, especialy as a FDK.
But as ppl said before, keep living in ur own delusional world and feed ur ego with recount links.
Best of Luck mate. :)

[verminslayer]

keep doing ur mediocre 18k dps in icc.

superior race lol? +5 expertise, and a slight attack power buff means i get to pull over 2k+, maybe your skill level is just ****.

you are using t10 legs and ur agility build which you say is superior, so how can you even use that as an excuse you tard.

[Gnimo]

So, before this question gets lost / forgoten, Bloodvenom Blade VS Havoc's Call in offhand.
Comparing my double armor pen ring itemisation with Rifokelts double havoc itemisation with Emblem cloak (to cap expertise) i gain 34 more dmg on main hand and lose 9 dmg in offhand wep dmg. How will this affect overall DMG done, will it increase or decrease?
I know that the basic logic is: u get more dmg on main hand than u lose on offhand so it should be better, but this is WoW and logic doesnt win every time. :D
If anyone is able to answer this id be gratefull...

[angrylol]

Lol, this thread is hilarious, with all the noblets and their "I can do more dps you noob, look at my recount, noob, you noob", haha
Maxing stats is good thing for those who like it, that is what Gnimo is doing. Great job sharing, honestly. But people who have attention span to read it, understand it and accept it ... very few. I have found some good stuff here, despite my belief that it is not really necessary even for endgame raiding.

I think there are other areas where more can be gained. When and what to use, how to time CDs, tips for encounters, how to easy calculate phase times based on DPS and such. I don't mean "IT+PS+BS...", that is for robots. I mean true understanding that fracture of endgame raiders have. But I have no idea how to convey it, but Gnimo, maybe you can.

[Shorttemper]

@Gnimo Double Havoc is superior to Bloodvenom. If you had used Kahorie's you'd have come to the same conclusions that you have come to. I have been following the comment section closely and comparing all you gear lists and talents to this guys ArP BiS list http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?325592 and his list has come out on top every single time. The thing about strength itemization seems that it can either go really high or really low and basically the the dps is less consistent when RNG isn't good. Ofc playstyle has a big impact on your DPS but the entire point is to see which gear setup brings out the maximum potential of your DK.

[Gnimo]

The thing is, not capping expertise never ended well for me... On Warmane atleast.
Frost no exp cap expirience: 2 Blood Strikes Dodged in a row. Ruined rotation.
Unholy no exp cap expirience: 3 Plague Strikes Dodged in a row. Ruined rotation.
This was all done after the latest changes when it comes to expertise.
Both times i quit no exp cap builds and i wont go back to them untill they do something about expertise again i guess.
And on top of that its so easy to cap it in the first place anyway...

Sims are basicly DPSing the dummy for 10 hours.
What i want to do is make almost perfect all arround itemisation and talent build, something that will shine most on fights like Lich King 25m HC where u need high singletarget DPS, high AoE DPS, good DPS when u are switching targets and so on... Cos that is kinda the only boss that actualy matters in this expansion. Everything else can be killed even if u do 2-4k less DPS as a FDK.

Reason i dont like double Havoc and Ashen ring itemisations is cos they make it hard for u to cap the Armor Penetration in the first place raping ur Attack Power. Less AP less AoE potential. On top of that, 1st Ashen ring proc is almost completely wasted while u prepare for the burst itself.

The ONLY reason why i go for 5/5 KM is so i can rely almost 90% of times that whenever i want to AoE using Howling Blast i will have KM at my disposal, which i do in the end.

I saw those lists long time ago and i rly dont know how the hell he even caps Armor Penetration while going for Double Havocs, Furor and Ashen ring.
From my point of view best in slot cloak is the one u can get from emblems, and there is no replacement for it.

Again, i know that in the end RNG will decide the winner and that this 1 item swap wont matter almost at all, but i just want to know how bad is Bloodvenom Blade in offhand compared to Havocs Call? Cos again, when u go BVB u buff ur Main Hand DMG and u lose some DMG on Off Hand.
If that DMG is less than what i get from the bonus attack power when it comes to AoE DMG i will go for BVB any day.

[Shorttemper]

@Gnimo Bloodvenom is inferior you should just run the sim yourself with w/e itemization you're using to see how inferior. Yes ArP is being capped with ArP food BS and JC proffs and full ArP gems with some gem slots to spare. Since I'm orc I get the racial expertise + talents + legs which is enough. Lanathel + Legs + talents should be enough for any other class.

[Gnimo]

So, we did ICC no buff raid today. Some interesting things happened...
Lich King 25m hc.
http://imgur.com/a/750o9
Itemisation used for the kill.
http://imgur.com/a/cf6R0
I used Flask a flask for this one as u can see, no pots tho.
Got Grabed by a Valk once.

http://imgur.com/a/PEIhK
DPS from a dummy just now.
Haste > Strength (DBW procs)

Basicly same **** when u rly think about it. Any itemisation linked so far will have the same result more or less... (when it comes to a dummy DPS)

I still cant compare it fully to my old itemisation (in raid) since i remember the numbers from 30% buff kills, but i think i might stick with this itemisation in the end.
Reason why is cos i gain more hit, reducing the chance that Pestilence and Howling Blast will miss, and on top of that, that hit with haste also buffs Melee DMG by a lot as it seems,so im free from the Obliterate spam or no DMG rotation in case of bad RNG.

I will update the guide soon i guess, and maybe even try to make a section in which il explain how to move and what to do on sertain boss fights in order to help out with that aswell and get some new players an good starting insight on how to do ICC 25m hc.
Might aswell make a new post thats clean, might take a week or a month...

Thanks everyone for the help when it comes to itemisation and again, sorry if i was pain in the ***. :D