Why does expertise not matter much for unholy but does for frost dw? And also what are your thoughts on getting more hit rating (not necessarily hitting hard cap) so that more auto attacks land and possibly even crit because autos are a high source of dps and about 1/4 of them are misses. Wouldn't more hit rating increase your dps even if you lose out on some strength or other stat?
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Member
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Wind of Northrend
Unholy DK can afford to have 1 dodge, mainly cos it has 1 free GCD, every rotation which u can use on refreshing Horn of Winter otherwise if u hit everything. U can also, if ur SS gets dodged, pop a DnD and do same amount of dmg for same amount of time used on rotation and pressing buttons. So its not a big deal if u see dodge now and then when u are playing unholy.
Reason why Frost DK cant have that is mainly cos of Pestilence and narrow window where u can use it to refresh ur Diseases... If u get dodged, as Frost, sometimes u have to eather skip completely the ability that got dodged in order to refresh diseases, or u will **** up rotation and u wont hit Obliterate that consumes Death Runes (Any ability always prios normal runes over Death runes), and so on...
Its easy to cap it for both, FDK and UDK, its just that frost cant afford those misses (dodge) and unholy benefits more from the haste u will get from VDW legs than from expertise cap.
About the "more hit" topic, ur melee dmg will go like this:
100 - 24 (glancing) - 27 (miss) - 6.5 (dodge) = total amount u will hit with white dmg, this is while attacking the boss target from behind.
24% Glancing will happen no matter what u do, its just how the game works.
If u cap hit (8%) and expertise (26, 6.5% reduced chance to be dodged or parried) it will go like this:
100 - 24 (glancing) - 19 (miss) = 57.
If u have 30% crit chance ur white dmg hits would look something like this:
30% crit
27% normal hits
24% glancing
19% miss
The more crit u have the less normal hits will occure. 40% crit = 17% normal hits, 50% crit = 7% normal hits, 57% crit = No normal hits = Soft crit cap. This DOESNT MEAN ur special abilities wont do normal hits, this is ONLY for white swings.
Miss is basicly RNG based, sometimes u will miss more than 19% even tho u have 8% hit, sometimes u will miss less... That is why its not smart going for more hit than u need which is: 8% melee hit for FDK (5% from gear + 3% from talents), 9% melee hit for UHDK (from gear only).
I cant give u the numbers on how important is Strength and how important is Hit after u cap it but going more hit wont help u increase ur DPS for sure.
FDK needs to get as much Armor Penetration and Strength from gear as posible in order to maximise DPS, u basicly ALMOST cap ARP if u dont have BS + JC as profesions.
On top of that, lets say Strength and Hit are equal based on priority, most of the items u can get hit from give u eather same amount of armor penetration (chest, head) or even more (shoulders, wrist, ring, ...) so u can get far more strength and armor penetration than u can get hit. (Strength = Armor Penetration, the more ARP u have the more Strength u can gem). Just cap hit and go for Strength.
If someone can do a better explanation pls do it... If u didnt understand something feel free to ask again...
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Wind of Northrend
I might have a better way to itemise FDK. Il do some combinations and uptdate the lists or even make new ones...
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Member
Nice guide Gnimo, thanks for the effort to help the comunity! Cheers!
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Banned
jbmt gnimo, good guide and all but vvat the fak are these potato pictures jbg...
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Wind of Northrend
UPDATE ON FROST DEATH KNIGHTS. GEAR.
FDK BIS list, 1391 armor penetration: http://imgur.com/a/5W2xI
[Sanctified Scourgelord Helmet] - M+R - Arcanum of Torment
[Penumbra Pendant] - O (10str10crit)
[Sanctified Scourgelord Shoulderplates] - R - Greater Inscription of the Axe
[Might of the Ocean Serpent] - O (10exp10hit) - Major Agility
[Sanctified Scourgelord Battleplate] - R+NT - Powerful Stats
[Toskk's Maximized Wristguards] - R+R - Greater Assault / OR / [Bracers of the Heir] - O+R - Greater Assault
[Gatecrasher's Gauntlets] - O (10str10crit)+R+R - Expertise / OR / [Scourge Stranglers] - R+R+R - Expertise
[Coldwraith Links] - O (10str10hit)+R+R
[Sanctified Scourgelord Legplates] - R+R - Icescale Leg Armor
[Apocalypse's Advance] - R+R - Icewalker
[Might of Blight] - O (10str10crit)
[Frostbrood Sapphire Ring] - R / OR / [Zarithrian's Offering] - R
[Deathbringer's Will]
[Sharpened Twilight Scale]
[Havoc's Call, Blade of Lordaeron Kings] - R - Fallen Crusader / Razorice
[Bloodvenom Blade] - R - Razorice / Fallen Crusader
[Sigil of Awareness]
Horde ORC bis list, 1399 armor penetration: http://imgur.com/a/90Hwb
[Sanctified Scourgelord Helmet] - M+R - Arcanum of Torment
[Lana'thel's Chain of Flagellation] - R
[Sanctified Scourgelord Shoulderplates] - R - Greater Inscription of the Axe
[Might of the Ocean Serpent] - O (10str10crit) - Major Agility
[Sanctified Scourgelord Battleplate] - R+NT - Powerful Stats
[Toskk's Maximized Wristguards] - R (20expertise)+R (20expertise) - Greater Assault / OR / [Bracers of the Heir]
[Sanctified Scourgelord Gauntlets] - O (10str10crit)+R - Crusher
[Coldwraith Links] - O (10str10crit)+R+R
[Legplates of Aetheric Strife] - R+R+R - Icescale Leg Armor
[Apocalypse's Advance] - R+R - Icewalker
[Might of Blight] - R
[Frostbrood Sapphire Ring] - R / OR / [Zarithrian's Offering]
[Deathbringer's Will]
[Sharpened Twilight Scale]
[Havoc's Call, Blade of Lordaeron Kings] - R - Fallen Crusader / Razorice
[Havoc's Call, Blade of Lordaeron Kings] - R - Razorice / Fallen Crusader
[Sigil of Awareness]
Profesions: BS + JC (2x 34str 1x 34arp gems for both builds)
Talents: http://wotlk.openwow.com/talent#jMZG...zf0cuzAofM0hxM
With both builds u reach 45% crit chance and 7.1k + attack power raid buffed (without food and flask).
If u get a haste proc from DBW u will be on 30% haste on both builds (slightly more as orc).
If u get a crit proc from DBW ... 45% + 15.25% crit from DBW (total of 60%) should put u above Soft crit cap (even IF crit suppresion IS working aka -4.8% when fighting a 3 lvl higher target aka Boss {SKULL}).
I wouldnt suggest going full strength build but if u feel like that u are doin more DPS with it, go for it...
If u want a bit more crit simply go for [Scourge Stranglers] instead of [Gatecrasher's Gauntlets]. If u decide to go for more crit with [Scourge Stranglers] u should get this spec in that case: http://wotlk.openwow.com/talent#jzZG...zf0cuzAofM0hxc . Instal Omen and watch carefully since with 1/3 Subversion u might have some aggro problems if tanks are bad and u get lucky with Obliterate crits.
BiS i will be using most likely: http://imgur.com/a/5W2xI OR http://imgur.com/a/dTOS3, with 3/3 [Blood-Caked Blade] and 1/3 [Subversion] build.
Ive noticed one thing. my avrg Obliterates in ICC wer arround 15k on Lich King encounter, with Strength and with Agility gloves. Main diference in dmg was based on DBW proc and if Fallen Crusader proced in same time with STS on wipe atempts. BUT, Obliterate and Melee crits wer 2% higher when i went for agility gloves... This might be only for that 1 atempt. Il be doin more of FDK nowadays and see which comes better for me in the end.
Lich King 25m hc, Kill in which i was using Agility Gloves:
75.6% Obliterate Crits with 15128 avrg dmg (24% Normal hit with 5760 avrg dmg, 0.4% DODGE!). Count: 233
47.6% Melee Crits with 5575 avrg dmg (23.1% glancing, 21.5% miss, 7.8% hit). Count 576
84% Frost Strike Crits with 8072 avrg dmg (16% Normal hit with 3308 avrg dmg). Count 150
220101 (2.5%) total dmg of Blood Caked Strike, 1643 avrg dmg. Count: 135, exactly 30% of my melee successful hits.Edited: December 10, 2016 Reason: Update.
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Wind of Northrend
@Flaviohasd, thanks, improving myself in the process aswell i guess. :D
@Vasdos, thanks, limited resources, lazy when it comes to looks. If u can read it and understand it its good enough for me. xD
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Member
Question for the author, why do you prefer Frigid Dreadplate over Deep Blood spec?
I'm assuming that spec is for MT, but what if you have to OT something?
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Wind of Northrend
Lets say this is mandatory: http://wotlk.openwow.com/talent#j0EMqIbfcbobsZhx
After this u have 20 unspent talents.
As main tank u want to be a threat machine so u can start healing a lot without losing aggro to greedy dps.
As offtank u want to be as helpfull as u can be, afking next to Main tank wishing it was u boss is hitting, or simply enjoying ur free time and free loot.
Options u have to spent 28 talents on:
Going deeper in Blood Tree wont result anything.
Heart Strike, it does maybe 100-200 dmg more than ur Blood Strike. Both spells do almost no threat. Try taking aggro off someone with HS/BS and try taking aggro off someone with IT.
Might of Mograine? Nope...
Blood Gorged? Those 5 talent points wont give u that much boost compared to Glacier Rot 3/3 and Killing Machine 2/5, especialy on fights where u wont be on 75%+ HP constantly.
Going Unholy Tree wont do much aswell.
Virulence? U can never cap spell hit, so u will miss anyway. Get 9% spell hit, glyph of Dark Command and u are fine.
Anticipation? 5% dodge sure is usefull sometimes but if u waste 5 points there u wont get anywhere with other talents, since going deeper in Unholy Tree wont have anything that will help u in any way. Its replacable with Frigid Dreadplate.
Morbidity? 15% more dmg on DND wont help u since even if u have 2/5 t10 and glyph, u will still lose aggro to anyone who does AoE. Who does Death Coil?
Unholy Command? I dont think there is a fight in which 10sec lower CD on DG will save a life.
Going Frost Tree.
When u look at the recount u will see that ur main source of DMG is Melee + Rune Strike as a tank.
When u look at ur spells u will see that ur main source of Threat is Icy Touch.
Frost tree buffs both of those spells more than any other. U get 4% strength, 20% more dmg on Icy Touch, 20% faster attack swings, Killing Machine, 5% aditional haste, AND on top of that u can buff the raid with 20% melee.
As main tank u need **** ton of aggro. Go Frost Tree for that.
As off tank u need to heal as much as u can, since dmg on DK tank is so bad and low, nothing u do will help u. And there are no talents deeper in Blood Tree, or in Unholy Tree that will help u heal more. But as frost u give 20% haste to the raid atleast which is usefull a lot in 10m raids especialy.
Avoidance Spec: http://wotlk.openwow.com/talent#j0EM...obsZhxbxcMhZ0x . If u have a Frost DK in raid alrdy and u are confident that he wont ever die and that u wont lose aggro without Glacier Rot.Edited: December 7, 2016 Reason: Added Avoidance Spec.
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Member
Thanks for the reply, i will try the spec for MT.
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Member
Ok, I'm going with this spec...
http://wotlk.openwow.com/talent#j0EMqI0IsbobsZhg0xmMIz
I replaced 2 points from Spell Deflection to Mark of Blood and 1 more extra point in Bloody Strikes. I personally love Mark of Blood, it's not some insanely good CD's, but it did save my *** couple of times. Extra point in Bloody Strikes is just a pick up talent, but it's not bad (but still not really good), if I need to Blood Boil something.
Why not Spell Deflection? I personally find this talent good only on Kele, since it's procs from direct spell DMG.
Icy Reach vs Black Ice. Yes, Black Ice will help with aggro, but I really don't have single target aggro problems, and this Icy Touch buffing from frost tree is just a big + to it. And as you said, in AoE, if someone goes full nuke, they will take aggro from you anyway. Icy Reach is my Sit-and-Chill talent, giving some extra range on Icy Touch so I don't have to chase mobs that are far away from me. I can play without it with no problem, but it just makes tanking easier. :)
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Wind of Northrend
Yea, that one could work nicely. :D
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Member
Well, you're on aurora one of the best guilds on the server =P
I'm raiding, mostly time, with pug raids and i prefer to put Mark of Blood on my spec, cuz i can raid with the best healer of the server or with the wrost one, MoB can be used at Sindra Frost Aura after a blistering that taken some dps, to save his life till some healer cast's end, or at BQL when she fly, it's just 4% of the life? Yes, it's but i prefer more heals then less.
Same with Rune Tap Glyph in the place of Diseases one, one time your diseases don't make much agro and you can heal 10% life of other in you grp( i'm with pugs not bis healers it really save asses in raids)
I'm based on my own tests and without a good raid some of your concepts don't work =P
OFC, i'm not talking that you aren't a good tanker, just some of the points you said here don't work on pugs etc.... If you have a good core (don't need to be the best one, just one that you can trust on your healers) this tuto don't have nothing wrong =D
(i seek more then 10 specs to make mine and made looking to my guild and pugs raids)
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Wind of Northrend
Well, ur job as a tank is to keep the aggro on ur target (Boss) and to not Die, which u can prevent with SelfHeals and Defencive Cooldowns.
Healing the raid is not something u are suposed to do. Glyph of Disease is 10% heal to party members only and it has 30sec CD. If ur healers suck u wont be able to save anyone anyway. Same goes for Mark of Blood. 4% wont save a life, especialy since it has 20 stacks that are random so u cant chose who do u heal, ppl that dont need heal might get healed and ppl that need might not be healed.
Ive raided in pugs aswell, and i wasnt always in Aurora, so i got that pain of a pug burned in my skin aswell. :D
But again, that is how i play my DK. If u have success playing like that, keep going. :D
Update:
Blood DK tank.
[Sigil of the Frozen Conscience], which u can get from 3 daily quests found in grizly hills (1 per day), Increases the damage of ur Icy Touch by 111.
Its perfect if u have aggro problems. Im considering about using it on my DK at all times, but i will still see how it works. I will also try to post a guide on each spec nowadays separatly, and see how that goes.
Best of Luck.
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Member
All your specs have 5/5 Killing Machine but I've heard 4/5 is enough. Not true anymore?
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