Of course it did. The report has a list of various things in it. Reports need to be more specific than that. One issue per report, please.
Reference.
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Field Medic Moderator
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Member
But if you guys already know about the problem, should we really create another report? Or are you waiting for a report to fix it?
Edited: December 18, 2016
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Field Medic Moderator
We don't need reports in order to fix things, of course. But they do help to organize things a bit. If reports don't already exist for specific issues, feel free to go ahead with them.
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Member
Done deal. That should do for now; we should all be agreeable on that.
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Member
This confuses me. I don't see how that report could be made up of more than one issue. The author of the report simply gave additional details of the one bug.
Making separate reports for each and every one of those gears and trinkets is obvious non-sense. I'm guessing that's not what you meant. The guy obviously did at-least a basic research before making the report. For a bug as game-breaking as this, dismissing such a report outright is a definite way of discouraging players.
I've seen the staff edit and simplify bug reports where simplification was possible and desirable. Even this would've been an okay way to go, even if providing additional details would've been in vain. But dismissing the report entirely? This puts players in doubt as to whether Warmane Devs are working on the issue, or waiting for better reports. If a normal player like myself can read and understand it, then I'm sure it is simple and organised enough for expert developers.
What am I missing here?
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Member
I need to ask, have you actually tested this or only based your bug report on the high dmg that you see? I might be wrong here but I have a memory of shado-pan trinkets being scaled down in one update, I just don't remember when. And it's also very often that the bug is visual, so just because it doesn't show lower lvl it doesn't mean that it isn't lowered. You need to do some actual math that proves the trinkets aren't scaled down. Not playing devil's advocate here, just saying it has to be proven and not based on descriptions and opinions.
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Member
Since you're not capable of understanding text fully I'll try making it easier (by making it structured and short):
-ilvl nerf happens to ALL PvE gear in PvP instances
-proc nerf & ilvl nerf are happening SEPARATELY
-Report is about ilvl nerf ONLY
-Shado-Pan only got its PROC NERFED and NOT its ilvl in instanced pvp
And a bonus:
ilvl nerf is a bg mechanic (not tied to specific items).Edited: December 18, 2016 Reason: No insult intended.
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Member
You just made lot of effort to search all that and type in forums...Its pretty rare to see that btw..Not many will do it.Seems like all just wait for some one as you to step forward and do something..BTW dunno why your post was deleted from where you put it..But if admins or developers ignore it then i guess i have to find other server to play as many others that left long ago..Seen the bugs on Frostwolf makes me think they are double more then ever..They form 2 bugs but fixing 1 by every update/restart..going in circle without any progress..!!!
Edited: December 19, 2016
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Member
The evidence is all around, if you look at the right places be it in game or on here. Nearest piece of evidence is the fact that people can keep talking about glass cannons in mop for a few pages on the forums as if it were normal.(And of all classes and specs we talk about a guardian druid)
Yes the proc will be affected to, but as you said I need to give hard evidence which I lack. Hence I didn't mention the proc downscaling. Not to mention I don't have any proper values to compare the current ones to.
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Member
If you want to prove that ilvl (and by extension, stats on the gear) for PvE gear does not scale down, what you need to do is the following:
1. Obtain ilvl gear above ilvl 550 (ilvl 540 can also work, but for the sake of argument, 550 is easier). You may have to raid or ask a friend. If you're too lazy to do this, then give up on bug-reporting, because no-one is going to take you seriously until YOU spend time.
2. Check stats and take a screenshot with gear.
3. Enter BG and check stats. MAKE SURE THERE ARE NO DIFFERENT BUFFS FROM STEP 2. Take screenshot.
4. Use eyes to check if stats are in fact different. If ilvl downscaling is correctly working, your stats should be lower.
5. Make a report with the screenshots.
Now for trinket main stat gain, this is more difficult. You again need to find a trinket with ilvl above 550. You then need to do the following (depending on trinket):
1. If trinket gives main stat (+agility) go to a dummy.
2. Equip trinket
3. Strip of all gear except trinket and a weapon
4. Take SS of agility before starting.
5. Hit dummy until trinket procs
6. Take SS of agility
7. Use calculator to calculate how much agility you gained. It should be same amount trinket says you should gain
8. Get 3 friends and make a 2v2 war game.
9. Remove all buffs (if you got any)
10. Take SS of agility, should be same as step 4
11. Hit people (make sure you don't have buffs) until trinket procs
12. Take SS of agility
13. Calculate how much agility changed between 11 and 12
14. Compare 13 and 7. If they are same, report bug
For proc rate, best you can do is go to a dummy and hit it for an hour. Use recount to check how many times trinket procced.
Then find 3 friends, and make a 2v2 war game. Have friend stand still and use EXACT same gear and hit them for an hour. Use recount to check proc rate. If proc rates same, there is a bug and report it.
The bug reports made thus far are all garbage, and you should feel blessed they haven't been dismissed. If I was QA, I'd dismiss it and ask Edifice to give you a 1 week ban for making stupid reports.
Again, if you want to report bugs, spend time and test it thoroughly. Double check everything. You might make a mistake in your report (I do all the time) but at least put some ****ing effort into it, rather than saying something "feels" bugged...
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Member
Do the same as you described earlier? An ilvl nerf would nerf the proc AND the static stat the gear provides (I can't think of a single pve trinket with an ilvl of >522 that has a proc but no static stats). So why wouldn't it be enough to see that the static stats indeed don't get lower in bgs for trinkets above 540?
I can clearly see why you aren't. He has put a lot of effort into making it and I find saying this not only disrespectful, but also ridiculous. If you can make a better report, show some engagement or just stop posting in a thread about a topic you don't care about.
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Member
Chill, he may be harsh but at the end of the day if it turns out it isn't bugged we gotta accept it.
I didn't want to go that far to test it out, but it seems like I have to find out for myself if it is bugged.
To correct what you said, all that needs to be done is to go into a bg and unequip all PvP gear, wearing only 1 pve gear that has ilvl>540. Anyone is free to do this, including you but I doubt you would waste your time with this kind of irrelevant stuff.
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Member
Ok, first of all, there are several reasons why I in particular think there's still some bug, and in fact I posted them before:
http://forum.warmane.com/showthread....=1#post2758936
http://forum.warmane.com/showthread....=1#post2759261
Besides, we all know that this bug effectively existed in the past in the server: http://forum.warmane.com/showthread....=1#post2758704
So, if it's still not fixed, then the bug still persists. Now, let's assume that it was fixed, then I ask: Why no staff member has appeared so far to say just that? What's the big deal? And so, we could have moved forward and make some tests or to try to check if there are other possible bugs, why letting us to waste time this way when maybe we could have discovered something else?
Anyways, I personally don't have any trinket or PvE gear, because I don't make PvE, but since all this seems a little 'shady' yet, I guess I'll have to start doing it to get some items.
To finalize, if anyone in here wants to test something, PM me and I'll gladly help.Edited: December 19, 2016
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Member
To be clear, I am referring to only the report made by Kron here.
As you said, there is a lack of proof in his report. But that's not the reason given by two of the staff members for dismissing it. I'd be satisfied if that was it, even though for a bug like this, proof is less important. Why? Because the purpose of providing proof is to show that the author put at-least some effort into making the bug report. Even if proof is given, the Devs would've to check it themselves thoroughly since there's always the chance the author can make a mistake, just like you said. But here, the bug in question is not some silly visual bug that very few people care about. This one is important enough to warrant attention from Devs even without proof. And enough people are talking about it, so this isn't someone randomly creating reports of big bugs to flood the bugtracker.
How long did the report for Stampede, the most-voted ( at that time) report stay in bug tracker without getting fixed, even after numbers were thrown at it from a multitude of angles? What about Deterrence bug in Wotlk? And so many more with proof in the bugtracker have gone too long without fixes. Clearly, providing proof can't be held as the sole reason for a bug not getting fixed, or atleast taken into consideration.
Still, I'd be satisfied. But again, this is not what caused the report's dismissal.
Let's say someone is trying to find proof, taking into consideration what you and the staff have said. How would they go about it? You've laid out the step by step instructions and I truly appreciate that effort. But, which trinket should be tested first? Will the person have to just test the one or two trinkets he can get and then extrapolate to assume the other trinkets are/are not bugged as well? Players who've been here for a while would know that when it comes to bugs here, such assumptions are weak footed and thus counter-productive to the process of proofing. Only a thorough testing would be acceptable.
So,would he/she have to test out each and every other gear and trinket, make reports (if need be) for them separately?
For this, that person would need atleast a few classes at level 90, and all the gear and trinkets worth thousands of VP and whatnot. Thus, the players eligible to provide proof would be those who have put in a very large amount of time and effort in MoP here to gear out many characters in PvE, or donated for a considerable amount. Another option is to ask friends with high end PvE gear and the proper classes. That's hundreds of gear and trinkets to test. Also, all end PvE content isn't even fully scripted here, afaik.
Clearly, this is way too much effort for a player to go into making a proof that serves such a needless purpose. If this testing is done by a GM, it would be much, much easier. Given that they would need to do it by themselves anyway, even if proof is in report, why shouldn't the GMs try it first?
If the bug in question had been about an ability, like Stampede, players could provide proof with effort. In that case, your answer would've been perfect.
Looking at all this, and then checking the report made by MysticElegy, just shows that it was an attempt of desperation which I perfectly understand. His report is ****ty, sure, but his attempt at it is definitely understandable given the reason for dismissal of Kron's report. As for his report, if I was Q&A, I would delete it, but no ban. :)
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Member
Exactly. For a GM it's a piece-of-cake to test, and since this issue would have been such a game-breaking, why to dismiss it in just minutes after the report was made, instead of some testing first?
