WotLK Fury warr BiS gear and rotation question.

[rc100]

Go to any city with a training dummy in it.
Spec into 5/5 Unbridled Wrath (Just ignore Piercing Howl and Enrage talents since u wont be needing them for tests and spec everything else)
Hit the dummy.
Unequip offhand. Get 100 rage. Start Cleave spam. Watch ur rage go down from 100 to 80, 60, 40, 20, 0.

When i first read that HS and Cleave also have a chance to give that extra rage i did spec 3/5 UW, mainly cos i tought there can be a time when i could actualy use that extra rage outside of ICC. I was disapointed. Eather my addon and my eyes are not working, or the talent is broken.

I don`t know if i read correct this combat log but seems that after cleave UW award me 1 rage.

[Jakkre]

UW really seems to be bugged.
Just tried it on the dummy and cleave doesnt seem to proc it at all.

The reason why it shows a DW proc in ur combat log is probably that u had a offhand equiped which dealed white attack dmg after ur cleave.
The combat log always shows the DW proc first and after that the attack that caused the proc.

[Jakkre]

If DW was working correctly i think it wouldn't be completly useless.
With 4 points in DW i have like a 52% chance to get that proc from my main and offhand white attack.
With a main and offhand swing speed of around 2.5 thats like 4 - 8 rage in 10 seconds.
If it would work with cleave that would be 8-16 rage in 10 sec when u spam cleave on 3 targets.

[Gnimo]

I don`t know if i read correct this combat log but seems that after cleave UW award me 1 rage.

I dont know if u are smoking something but ok, let me ask u this:
how do u explain me hitting 2 dummys with 20 cleaves not getting a SINGLE Unbridled Wrath proc?
Here u go, 5 of them as an example...
http://imgur.com/a/9KInr

Edit:
I have 3/5 UW in that pic, and every 3/5 melee hits give me 1 rage from the talent.
I dont see how can it be posible for melee swings to proc so often while 10 Cleave hits on that pic alone gave me 0. I dont know what u did on that pic and why is it cut near the end, but i higly doubt that 1 rage u got was from Cleave.

[dike]

oh god, look at this. UW discussion on warrior forums ahahahahahahah. This talent has prooven to be shiet-tier even during retail 3.2.0. and still after all those years u, guys, cant decide on it. ****ing lol

[jeazi]

no its not,when you near BIS Umbrage is better,got chance to try them both..

[jendah]

I dont know if u are smoking something but ok, let me ask u this:
how do u explain me hitting 2 dummys with 20 cleaves not getting a SINGLE Unbridled Wrath proc?
Here u go, 5 of them as an example...
http://imgur.com/a/9KInr

Edit:
I have 3/5 UW in that pic, and every 3/5 melee hits give me 1 rage from the talent.
I dont see how can it be posible for melee swings to proc so often while 10 Cleave hits on that pic alone gave me 0. I dont know what u did on that pic and why is it cut near the end, but i higly doubt that 1 rage u got was from Cleave.

It should be 5% chance per point. Meele procs it way too often.
Maybe still slight differences between servers?

no its not,when you near BIS Umbrage is better,got chance to try them both..

Had both at bis, tried both at bis.. there is basically no difference. More likely that you had an extra buff or something.

[Panofsky]

First I'd like to point out what effort means according to the dictionary.
"exertion of physical or mental power" is what effort means according to the dictionary, empirical proof can be found here (Btw, if you read the dictionary you might realize that you just said you don't make use of your brain while you do any activity within this private server community, I highly doubt you meant that so please make good use of the information that I provided you). The mere fact of us being here in this thread discussing this is an effort. Also, playing an obsolete game that's been around for longer than 8 years means for no reason that you or any person can't put any effort into it. I'm not assuming I know you, I called you out for being a conformist and even linked you a dictionary link so you do a quick read of what that word means, which would be great.
Big words? This might be the first time I see somebody measure a word's size, but alright. If words don't mean a thing then why are we here making use of words to communicate through this communication line that we call writing.

P.s. You might say that you don't need my explanations but I highly doubt that claim as I do believe you need them.

Covering yourself behind the literal meaning of the words we use and we can find in the dictionary would not make you a more mature person. Let me introduce you into the wonderful world of "metaphors" and "similes", where words and phrases are used not in their literal meaning but to refer to something different. You may find them reading some novels or poems, written by good writers who has lived trough the history of mankind. You may be shocked by how they use our language to greater purposes, creating new structures and stepping beyond the limits of the common comunication. I guess they are not so easy to be understood by those who are not used to but, with some time and patience, you will realize how you can improve your way to comunicate with other people by using them. "Big words" is an example of how you can metaphorically measure the seize of the words we use to comunicate with other people, using them in a context where other people do not find them appropriate.

Playing a class to its full potential is fine, if you disagree with people calling other people out for not performing at par then that's your opinion, as Rifokelt has said, everybody has their own ideals. Some of us pay enough attention to not just realize of our own mistakes but also other people's mistakes, pointing them out means that we want them to get solved in order to achieve a better raid performance because as you've said, this is an 8 years old game and if we've kept playing it then maybe we should strive for an awesome performance. Also, if it's boring for you and other people it doesn't mean it's boring as a fact, it means that there's a group of people who think paying attention to other people's performance is boring, so don't generalize.

I know it's my opinion and I definetly have never stated that pointing out other players' mistakes it's boring as a fact. It's simply boring to me, because I've played this game for many years and I've already achieved most of the goals I have set to myself while playing it. I actually play only to have some fun during my freetime and, as I've already stated, I don't want to spend it as you seem to like. Is it so strange to find someone who do not agree with you? Someone told me this is "a normal thing in discussions, and discussions take a huge part in human communication". You have written a post where you suggest to remove a player from your guild just because he has done some minor mistakes while playing his class. I've just written a post to comunicate how I find quite laughable to still find players who stress themselves while playing a game which is eight year old by pointing out other players' mistakes. There are no generalizations to be found here. Last but not least, I definelty have never spoken about what you seem to call "an invasion of other players' personal space" and I do not think pointing out other players' mistakes should be compared to it.

[Gnimo]

@Dike
Yea, i guess we shouldnt use forums to discuss anything game related. God forbid discussing warrior talents in warrior section...

@Jendah
I dont know how much is the %, i just pointed that it ONLY procs from WHITE melee swings, it doesnt proc from Heroic Strike nor Cleave, and i see 99% of the warriors on this server using 4/5 UW in their builds skipping Piercing Howl.

@Jeazi
When u are BIS, most of the gear is same exept 3 things.
Wrist, Back, Gloves.
There are couple of options for those item slots. In the end it doesnt matter which one u use. U wont gain nor lose any kind of DPS cos u use Toskz or Umbrage.
DBW proc and RNG on crits will dictate ur DPS mostly, those 3 items wont.

[Drakantas]

I agree. Sunder Armor is a pretty decent dps boost, though. Definitely worth getting for a 25-man raid. But would you say that it's worth gkicking someone because they don't use it? I mean, since that's essentially where this argument started. I'd say it would be a better choice to teach the Warrior to use it and explain to them the advantages it brings instead of immediately gkicking. I'm sure Drak would agree with that as well, but he has a tendency to express himself in a dramatic way much of the time.


About Unbridled Wrath, I'll agree with you so long as the Warrior in question is decently geared. A terribly geared Warrior can benefit from it though.

If I wanted somebody else to interpret what I said to a total different meaning than what I had intended then I wouldn't have written anything, I mean what I say.
Also, you might want to quote me to discuss about something so we can discuss that ourselves instead of quoting other persons, it might lessen confusion and help avoid people thinking what you said was directed towards them.

Covering yourself behind the literal meaning of the words we use and we can find in the dictionary would not make you a more mature person. Let me introduce you into the wonderful world of "metaphors" and "similes", where words and phrases are used not in their literal meaning but to refer to something different. You may find them reading some novels or poems, written by good writers who has lived trough the history of mankind. You may be shocked by how they use our language to greater purposes, creating new structures and stepping beyond the limits of the common comunication. I guess they are not so easy to be understood by those who are not used to but, with some time and patience, you will realize how you can improve your way to comunicate with other people by using them. "Big words" is an example of how you can metaphorically measure the seize of the words we use to comunicate with other people, using them in a context where other people do not find them appropriate.



I know it's my opinion and I definetly have never stated that pointing out other players' mistakes it's boring as a fact. It's simply boring to me, because I've played this game for many years and I've already achieved most of the goals I have set to myself while playing it. I actually play only to have some fun during my freetime and, as I've already stated, I don't want to spend it as you seem to like. Is it so strange to find someone who do not agree with you? Someone told me this is "a normal thing in discussions, and discussions take a huge part in human communication". You have written a post where you suggest to remove a player from your guild just because he has done some minor mistakes while playing his class. I've just written a post to comunicate how I find quite laughable to still find players who stress themselves while playing a game which is eight year old by pointing out other players' mistakes. There are no generalizations to be found here. Last but not least, I definelty have never spoken about what you seem to call "an invasion of other players' personal space" and I do not think pointing out other players' mistakes should be compared to it.

First, I'm not covering myself behind the literal meaning of words, if anything I'm just helping you out so you don't incur into barbarities. As you seem to be somebody who's into reading books, essays, and articles. I'd recommend you reading "On Liberty" by John Stuart Mill and George Orwell in his essay of "Politics and the English language" before saying what you say or using rhetoric forms of speech.

Also, got to point out that a Metaphor changes a whole sentence's meaning to something else, that's true but you can't use it to change the literal meaning of words, it isn't even semantics because every word might incur into a different meaning, but if you express yourself wrongly then that's a whole different topic. A tenor or vehicle's meanings won't change, you might want to read into that as you seem to be interested into metaphors, it's going to help you understand them.

----
Actually if you were to remove a player instead of teaching him/her how to better themselves that's less of a stress, it's one less person to deal with. I also didn't imply that you said anything about "invading people's personal space", it's just something that I dropped in order to contribute to my post with my beliefs of the topic at hand, I also didn't suggest a comparison.


-----------------
About Unbridled Wrath, I don't really see it as something that might influence your dps significantly. Also, the only reason that I find on spending points in this talent is to be able to spend points into tier 4 of the spec and so on, you could spend those points in Commanding Presence but there's ret paladins who also have a similar talent on a spell that's mutually exclusive with Battle Shout (It also increases your commanding shout but it isn't a dps increase). Lastly, every other talent previous to tier 4 isn't a dps increase. You might want to play your class differently and spec differently but if it comes to dps terms then there's no other choice.

[DarkenedHue]

Hey guys just want to say something about Unbridled Wrath.
As you guys pointed already 1 rage don`t seem much, yes sometimes it may be just that 1 rage we need for the next hit.But that is on single target.

Well yes, that's the point, once in a blue moon the stars line up and Unbridled Wrath translates into an extra attack, which is why it provides any DPS at all, but this is so infrequent that the talent ends up being extremely underwhelming. It's just not a mathematically-favored talent in the slightest.

The place where this talent shine is on AOE when we use Cleave, on consistent AOE damage. The talent become 4 times stronger because cleave hits up to 3 (if glyphed) targets and this apply to each target.You can end up having any where between 1- 3 extra rage per cleave.This is the place where chance to rage starve is the highest, specially if we are not receiving hits, that extra rage comes handy if you ask me.

To expand on what I said above, extremely weak multiplied by 3 is still, extremely weak. It becomes slightly less negligible, that's about it.

[Panofsky]

If I wanted somebody else to interpret what I said to a total different meaning than what I had intended then I wouldn't have written anything, I mean what I say.
Also, you might want to quote me to discuss about something so we can discuss that ourselves instead of quoting other persons, it might lessen confusion and help avoid people thinking what you said was directed towards them.


First, I'm not covering myself behind the literal meaning of words, if anything I'm just helping you out so you don't incur into barbarities. As you seem to be somebody who's into reading books, essays, and articles. I'd recommend you reading "On Liberty" by John Stuart Mill and George Orwell in his essay of "Politics and the English language" before saying what you say or using rhetoric forms of speech.

Also, got to point out that a Metaphor changes a whole sentence's meaning to something else, that's true but you can't use it to change the literal meaning of words, it isn't even semantics because every word might incur into a different meaning, but if you express yourself wrongly then that's a whole different topic. A tenor or vehicle's meanings won't change, you might want to read into that as you seem to be interested into metaphors, it's going to help you understand them.

----
Actually if you were to remove a player instead of teaching him/her how to better themselves that's less of a stress, it's one less person to deal with. I also didn't imply that you said anything about "invading people's personal space", it's just something that I dropped in order to contribute to my post with my beliefs of the topic at hand, I also didn't suggest a comparison.

You don't need to spend your time "helping me", most of what you seem to refer to as your personal knowledge is just the result of the researches made by your favourite web browser home page. When I will need the help of mr.Google (pay attention here, I'm not refering to the Google website as a person in a literal meaning) I will just use it. I'm actually surprised by the fact you have finally accepted someone could not agree with you. Last but not least, if I would not point other players' mistakes in order to not waste my time, what let you think I would spend it teaching them how to play their class? Maybe I would do it if they ask me to, but definitely not during a raid. Removing them you would have less players to deal with. Yes, that's quite obvious but not relevant (as much as your previous argument about the "invasion of a player's personal space"; it almost looks like you are talking only to yourself), since it would not decrease the stress needed to point their mistakes, which is something you would do BEFORE removing them.

[Mercy]

If I wanted somebody else to interpret what I said to a total different meaning than what I had intended then I wouldn't have written anything, I mean what I say.
Also, you might want to quote me to discuss about something so we can discuss that ourselves instead of quoting other persons, it might lessen confusion and help avoid people thinking what you said was directed towards them.

My case in point. Feel free to stop posting at any time.

[Drakantas]

You don't need to spend your time "helping me", most of what you seem to refer to as your personal knowledge is just the result of the researches made by your favourite web browser home page. When I will need the help of mr.Google (pay attention here, I'm not refering to the Google website as a person in a literal meaning) I will just use it. I'm actually surprised by the fact you have finally accepted someone could not agree with you. Last but not least, if I would not point other players' mistakes in order to not waste my time, what let you think I would spend it teaching them how to play their class? Maybe I would do it if they ask me to, but definitely not during a raid. Removing them you would have less players to deal with. Yes, that's quite obvious but not relevant (as much as your previous argument about the "invasion of a player's personal space"; it almost looks like you are talking only to yourself), since it would not decrease the stress needed to point their mistakes, which is something you would do BEFORE removing them.

My favorite search engine is Bing, but thank you.
I really can't disagree on having used a search engine to increase what I call my knowledge, because I did use it to read about these topics and find places to buy eBooks or read essays. But in my defense, it was made a couple months ago, it dates back to early 2016.

Why? Not to boast about stuff that I don't know about, that makes no sense to me. It was to learn more about these topics, fact is I made it to not run away from topics and to be able to make valid points from reliable sources. Here's the thing, there's a difference between a pretender and somebody who knows his stuff. A pretender doesn't provide empirical sources and never really gets into discussions about sources, a pretender boasts about knowledge that his person doesn't have, and somebody who knows his stuff will provide empirical sources if warranted and not boast about knowledge that his person lacks. As you can already tell, I didn't want to be a pretender. It was all done to discuss with fellow uni friends from all over the world about topics that we find interesting, I'd invite you to our Discord guild or our Skype groups but you aren't a friend of mine.
Anyways, I think it's enough about my life.

"Last but not least, if I would not point other players' mistakes in order to not waste my time, what let you think I would spend it teaching them how to play their class?"
Good point.

As for everything else, you don't call something "not relevant" and then proceed to discuss it. That'd lead to more irrelevant content.

I'm actually surprised by the fact you have finally accepted someone could not agree with you

I haven't come here to discuss with the mentality of not agreeing with anybody but myself, that'd make no sense as I pointed out before human communication is something that requires more than 1 participant. It isn't like I finally accepted that fact, it's because you were able to express yourself right that we were able to have a more civil and thought out discussion.

[Panofsky]

My favorite search engine is Bing, but thank you.

That was a really big mistake of mine. Reading your previous messages I should have understood you do not belong to those common people who have choosen Google as their favourite search engine, as you have really showed us how uncommon you are in so many ways. Let me be clear about this, I'm using the word "uncommon" in a rethorical way.

I'd invite you to our Discord guild or our Skype groups but you aren't a friend of mine.

I guess we have really missed the chance to build a strong friendship between ourself, haven't we?

As for everything else, you don't call something "not relevant" and then proceed to discuss it. That'd lead to more irrelevant content.

Sorry, that really wasn't my intent. Using your own words, I was just "helping you", trying to let you understand why your previous arguments were, and still are, not relevant. Since it seems you don't want to discuss about them further more, the explanations I provided should have been really helpful on that matter.

I haven't come here to discuss with the mentality of not agreeing with anybody but myself, that'd make no sense as I pointed out before human communication is something that requires more than 1 participant. It isn't like I finally accepted that fact, it's because you were able to express yourself right that we were able to have a more civil and thought out discussion.

I find quite funny that you seem to be the only one who needed so much time to finally understand my point of view. I hope that, with more time and patience, you will understand the real reason is not related with my way to comunicate with other people.

My favorite search engine is Bing, but thank you.
I really can't disagree on having used a search engine to increase what I call my knowledge, because I did use it to read about these topics and find places to buy eBooks or read essays. But in my defense, it was made a couple months ago, it dates back to early 2016.

Why? Not to boast about stuff that I don't know about, that makes no sense to me. It was to learn more about these topics, fact is I made it to not run away from topics and to be able to make valid points from reliable sources. Here's the thing, there's a difference between a pretender and somebody who knows his stuff. A pretender doesn't provide empirical sources and never really gets into discussions about sources, a pretender boasts about knowledge that his person doesn't have, and somebody who knows his stuff will provide empirical sources if warranted and not boast about knowledge that his person lacks. As you can already tell, I didn't want to be a pretender. It was all done to discuss with fellow uni friends from all over the world about topics that we find interesting, I'd invite you to our Discord guild or our Skype groups but you aren't a friend of mine.
Anyways, I think it's enough about my life.

I fear that this explanation of yours, where you have clarified in such a good way the differences between a pretender and somebody who knows what he's talking about, do not fit very well with your behaviour. In fact, I think you acted as a pretender when you have called me "a conformist", assuming this word could be used to describe my person just because I didn't agree with your suggestion to remove a player from a guild if he doesn't follow your raid priorities. If you really feel the need to explain how and why you act like this, try at least to act accordingly to your explanations. Practice what you preach, my dear teacher. I really hope we will not discuss about your life anymore.