Time for a change!

[Mahchai]

u guys talk about changes but gm's dont worry about you, i sure they never read this or answer this

[elementyy]

The most fundamental change this server needs is to have the attention of the server staff back. None of these changes could happen since no GM or Dev is reading this thread(most probably). The server is full of toxic players, some scripters, hackers, and there are no GMs to control it. Malaco communicates with us twice a year. How do you want changes when we are almost forgotten?

[ssoro]

the desperate belief a lot of people have that they desire "change" is unfortunately what got us in this situation in the first place, rather than taking responsibility and sharing specific thought-through solution recommendations, instead well to be there and ask for "change" basically blindly trusting the better judgement of an individual who intentionally ddosed his own realm

a "meta" should never be changed for the sake of change, it should only be *improved once there has been enough thoughts to figure out a way to actually improve something
i am strongly against "change" attempts its what got us down here, i am only for *improvement

asking for either lvl277, lvl284, or lvl226 trinkets in the same suggestion; thats not having put constructive thoughts on what would improve the situation, thats thinking outloud about any way to change the situation; a popular flawed thinking pattern which significantly harmed this realm over the past 4 years
- asking for "change": harmful
- suggesting specific ways to bring *improvement: constructive

!

[theforgotten1]

How many times are you going to post same thing again?
Look at this suggestion of specific ways to bring improvement to the server:

Same gear system, add 284 offparts/jewelery and 277 pve/pvp weapons for 2200/2300/2400 3v3, make people play and get good for items or donate for items. Both help the server.

We either get a much more competitive server or the server gets the money and will make more $ tournaments. It's a win-win situation because everyone will want the best gear available.

/sarcasm on
But, hey! Let's add custom teleport zones to the NPC, that will surely revamp the server, right?
/sarcasm off

[Emeraldx]

What have you done to the server... it's so sad to see its current state. Tons of trolling/leaving ppl in sq, insanely ******ed system of farning gear. Thx, you guys make me not having any regrets I hva stopped playing wow.

[ssoro]

277 weapons for ~2300 3v3

giving bad players weaker characters than better players has more downsides than upsides motivation-wise, to motivate players i on the opposite would recommend to remove all rating requirements from items

add 284 offparts/jewelery

to me the most balanced and enjoyable itemization access is 264 offparts/jewellery with t2 weapons and no professions

[Myara]

Just add VIP back on the store for Blackrock. 60 euros for full gear on all characters. I think a lot of people would buy that again, and the server would finally make some income to Warmane maybe, so we can get tourneys going hopefully, and most probably more arena activity just because of VIP. I know TONS of ppl who don't come back just because they lost their VIP and they cba gearing 10 characters/classes. And let's be real, nobody is going to donate 200 euros for 1 full geared character, just makes no sense.

[danilulz]

I do agree with the most suggestions the OP gave.

Except the one about removing 3.3.5b changes, I'd actually like to see some more changes (carefully implemented, with some testing and discussion with the top players) so we could see the now, "unplayable" specs more (For example, combat rogues, demonology warlocks, fury warriors (I know there's a certain warrior that already has proven it to be valid, but still) and survivor hunters) These changes doesn't have to be big, to make them "more viable" and it would definitely change the meta and make some new comps viable.

After finding a good new meta with few changes I agree that some minor gear changes with each new season (trinkets/rings/weapons) would be good, just to keep the meta changing a bit, so things wont turn stale for those of us who play a bit more. I doubt that most of the casual players would even really notice a changes like these in their game play (other than having to replace the item), but it would make difference higher up.


I do agree that gearing up is a pain, and personally hate it. But, people like to have a carrot in front of them to keep them playing. What I would suggest is removing the "flush" and giving arena points from every arena win, with no limit. This way, you don't have to wait a month and log in everyday for a damn battleground daily win. How I would implement it, would be that wins @+1500mmr would give you 10points (just to avoid people using bots for the wins) @+1800, you get 15points, @+2000 20points and so on. (And if you have not achieved lets say 250 points in the week, but have played +10games, you would get what you are missing, just so even the worst of us will get the gear eventually) Now the point amounts might need some reworking, but personally I think this would be a better system.

Also, could implement a system for catching up with alts, so if one of your char has had +10 000 (or what ever is the amount for full gear) arena points gained, your alts would get double the points, with two characters at +10 000 arena points gained, you gain triple, and so on.


I would also make a little tweaks on solo queue, just to remove some of the cancer that some people face there.

Firstly, there are a lot of people just trying out new classes and straight up queing for solo queue, since it's the easiest and usually fastest way to get matches, meanwhile having no clue on how to play with them and sometimes not even having binds ready before joining. To avoid this, I would recommend that every character would have to play X amount of arenas (10 maybe?) even skirmishes, before they could join solo queue (Disabled if you already have had that class played on your account to remove it from alts). I know this only affects at early ratings (and at nights when you have to wait for the mmr to drop) but it would make solo queue just a bit better.

Secondly, I have (and probably some other people) noticed a new cancerous trend rising in the solo queue, where healers will queue up and demand transmog items, or they would not play (Yes, people actually do this). Having this happen to you more than once (usually at low mmr as well, so you know that the rating deduction will be huge) will decrease your motivation more then I can express. A possible fix could be that if you don't heal or deal damage for over 10 000 (or x amount) in few games in a row, or if your games constantly last less than 30sec-1min, you would get an cooldown for your whole account, so you cannot join solo queue, increasing every time it happens. This should of course be disabled at +1550-1600 rating, since these trolls rarely get "so" high with this tactic and so it wouldn't affect the "normal" players.


I also hate "pay to win" systems, so rather than having gear in the shop for blackrock, maybe make the transmog items more rare (especially the good ones) and add those to the shop (with a bit cheaper, 2-5 coins / item) as well as mounts and maybe the old VIP teleportation option. These could bring some more revenue from the blackrock server.


Also, there are couple good new changes in retail, that I believe blackrock would benefit from.

One being removing teams and implementing character personal ratings. This would let you play more than one or two comps on your character and you wouldn't have to make and gear the same class 5 times just because one or two of your partners aren't as active as you are. (This will still be different from solo queue, as you still queue up in group, deciding the comp and probably have some communication.)

I also like the Battlenet system, so you can see if your friends are on their alts and you can ask them to play with you. Something similar could be implemented on Warmane, so you would see if your friends are playing on alts, or in Icecrown/Lordaeron for example.

I would also like to see a pvp lfg system, as they have on retail, so it would be easier to find new partners, rather than spamming the lfg channel, which most people rarely read, or at least do not keep track on, when in arenas/bgs/dueling.


(Also, I just want to throw this idea out there, but Warmane, you could fund some of the good players to make more new pvp videos(and support steams), as I think that it is the best and probably cheapest advertisement tool that you have at the moment) It might be just me, but when watching, for example, Homerjay playing on his hunter, it just makes me instantly want to log to my hunter.

Lastly, I would like to see the tournaments coming back, with even a small prize pool. I know it might seem to be a money wasted, but I do believe it could increase the population again. It might attract some of the good players back to the server (or see some new risers) and seeing these people play well, could attract more people to the server. For qualification, it could be each seasons top5 teams + anyone else can join for a small entry fee.


Sorry for the long(?) post, I hope that at least some of my (tired, caffeine boosted, half coma like state of mind,) ideas were acceptable (understandable).

I do hope for some feedback (even if it would be wanting to **** on my face because of such ******ed ideas and bad grammar.)

Cheers,

Lulzi (Izlul)

[feraldinio]

Same gear system, add 284 offparts/jewelery and 277 pve/pvp weapons for 2200/2300/2400 3v3, make people play and get good for items or donate for items. Both help the server.

ye sure lets do this since u are the only one whos interested in playing 3v3 on dead realm in 2k17 that will help the server a lot



bring back vip for 60euros and change flush to daily would be win-win situation

I do agree that gearing up is a pain, and personally hate it. But, people like to have a carrot in front of them to keep them playing. What I would suggest is removing the "flush" and giving arena points from every arena win, with no limit. This way, you don't have to wait a month and log in everyday for a damn battleground daily win. How I would implement it, would be that wins @+1500mmr would give you 10points (just to avoid people using bots for the wins) @+1800, you get 15points, @+2000 20points and so on. (And if you have not achieved lets say 250 points in the week, but have played +10games, you would get what you are missing, just so even the worst of us will get the gear eventually) Now the point amounts might need some reworking, but personally I think this would be a better system. (Izlul)

is a good idea aswell

[sagf23424]

Who gains the biggest benefit from 277- 284 gear?
Warriors, ferals, hunters, elemental shamans, destruction warlocks (probably, fire and arcane mages)
All these classes/ specs, except mages, dominate the ladder now.

Which classes are underdogs and require in-deapth tweaks to be at least semi-viable?
Blood dks
combat and mutilate rogues
holy priests (not that bad actually but unplayable only due to low mana efficiency)
demo warlocks (playable in soloque but useless in 2s and 3s)
fury warriors (do not exist, because arms is better in any situation)
Solution: 3.3.5c patch, increase damage and optionally mobility, reduce manacost of spells

Classes that lack some buff to be considered strong
Boomkins. Solution: idk
Sub rogues (lack of damage, low survival, useless in 3s and soloque). Solution: increase damage OUTSIDE of shadow dance by 5-15%
Mages (frost is very strong in combination with shadow priest/destro warlock, but has issues with random soloque matchups and old good comps like rogue/mage, disc/mage, ele/mage, feral/mage ret/mage are pretty weak and rare nowadays). Solution: bring back MHC soloque and double solace, reduce trinket item level to 258
Bm hunters (low damage and survival against teams with holy paladin), surv hunters (low chance of survival against casters). Solution: 3.3.5c
Unholy dk (lack of burst damage against good teams, do not exist in 2s and 3s after bryntroll was fixed). Solution: increase bryntroll ppm and bring back double death verdict.


Bottom line:
for the sake of competition, gear wise, the server needs 258 trinkets meta with 1 bauble of true blood per team, 277 weapons (including pve) and SLIGHTLY increased bryntroll ppm (like 1proc in 8 seconds with internal cooldown)
Also, allow 1 264 trinket for warlocks and mages, because they have no good alternative in 258 meta (inb4 fire and arcane mages)
Shoulders should require 2200 soloque rating
Points flush every 2 days
Elaborate on 3.3.5c


P.s. for those who dream of active 3s, that won't happen because 1) low online 2)"professional players" playing only with each other in the strongest comps a.k.a. LSP, thundercleave and PHP every season for 5 years straight, destroying all the fun from the game for random people trying different comps.
Thus, the game should be balanced around 2s and soloque

Btw, since the merge a lot of crucial bugs came up, like:
Thunderstorm can no longer be reflected
death grip ignores grounding totem
if you death grip into spell reflection dk and warrior are both gripped to new places (rofl)
mind control breaks for no reason after 1-2 seconds
if a shaman purges into spell reflection he can dispel harmful rebuffs on himself like dots (rofl again)
if you start casting and the target runs out of range, the spell will still land (hello fears from 60 yards)
at least one of shaman's teammates in soloque is often immune to bloodlust
and many more
Noone bother to fix real bugs on blackrock as they get lost in pve bug tracker, the realm is just abandoned

Pce

[Jakkre]

Who gains the biggest benefit from 277- 284 gear?
Warriors, ferals, hunters, elemental shamans, destruction warlocks (probably, fire and arcane mages)
All these classes/ specs, except mages, dominate the ladder now.

Which classes are underdogs and require in-deapth tweaks to be at least semi-viable?
Blood dks
combat and mutilate rogues
holy priests (not that bad actually but unplayable only due to low mana efficiency)
demo warlocks (playable in soloque but useless in 2s and 3s)
fury warriors (do not exist, because arms is better in any situation)
Solution: 3.3.5c patch, increase damage and optionally mobility, reduce manacost of spells

Classes that lack some buff to be considered strong
Boomkins. Solution: idk
Sub rogues (lack of damage, low survival, useless in 3s and soloque). Solution: increase damage OUTSIDE of shadow dance by 5-15%
Mages (frost is very strong in combination with shadow priest/destro warlock, but has issues with random soloque matchups and old good comps like rogue/mage, disc/mage, ele/mage, feral/mage ret/mage are pretty weak and rare nowadays). Solution: bring back MHC soloque and double solace, reduce trinket item level to 258
Bm hunters (low damage and survival against teams with holy paladin), surv hunters (low chance of survival against casters). Solution: 3.3.5c
Unholy dk (lack of burst damage against good teams, do not exist in 2s and 3s after bryntroll was fixed). Solution: increase bryntroll ppm and bring back double death verdict.


Bottom line:
for the sake of competition, gear wise, the server needs 258 trinkets meta with 1 bauble of true blood per team, 277 weapons (including pve) and SLIGHTLY increased bryntroll ppm (like 1proc in 8 seconds with internal cooldown)
Also, allow 1 264 trinket for warlocks and mages, because they have no good alternative in 258 meta (inb4 fire and arcane mages)
Shoulders should require 2200 soloque rating
Points flush every 2 days
Elaborate on 3.3.5c


P.s. for those who dream of active 3s, that won't happen because 1) low online 2)"professional players" playing only with each other in the strongest comps a.k.a. LSP, thundercleave and PHP every season for 5 years straight, destroying all the fun from the game for random people trying different comps.
Thus, the game should be balanced around 2s and soloque

Btw, since the merge a lot of crucial bugs came up, like:
Thunderstorm can no longer be reflected
death grip ignores grounding totem
if you death grip into spell reflection dk and warrior are both gripped to new places (rofl)
mind control breaks for no reason after 1-2 seconds
if a shaman purges into spell reflection he can dispel harmful rebuffs on himself like dots (rofl again)
if you start casting and the target runs out of range, the spell will still land (hello fears from 60 yards)
at least one of shaman's teammates in soloque is often immune to bloodlust
and many more
Noone bother to fix real bugs on blackrock as they get lost in pve bug tracker, the realm is just abandoned

Pce

Well, I think the best solution would be to remove all pve gear completely and make only pvp gear available.
Underdog classes such as Moonkin and enh shami for example have to use pvp gear in all slots because of their bad survivability.
Now if there was no pve gear available these classes might benefit from it while other classes such as warrior would experience a slight nerf.
The overpowered human racial would also experience a nerf because no more double pve trinkets.
After all everything should be more balanced.

Regarding 3.3.5c :
The dot of SV hunters explosive shot should stack. That would make the spec much more viable.

[sagf23424]

No pve gear means no one will be able to land a kill
The main goal is to let as many comps as possible be viable for KILLING opponents, not extend every arena match to 47 minutea, cuz dps do negative damage

Best example: you play RMP against LSP where warlock and shaman both have 1400 resi and pala 1200. LSP can nuke either rogue or priest in 3 globals no matter how much resil they have and how good they play. RMP has literally 0 pressure out of the first 10 seconds when they can sap someone, because mage and rogue are the classes with the least damage in this expansion, plus mage and priest go oom, unlike the opponents.
What happens if you remove pve? Rogue and mage will still do 0 damage, mage and priest will oom in 2 minutes, warlock will definitely spec affliction to end rmp's struggle even faster, ele shaman will be the least affected by pve removal.

One more example: disc rogue in 2s is the most pathetic comp atm, because of rogue's super low dmg output. Remove pve, make rogue completely useless (jk it already is only good for hugging pillars and wasting time), end of story.

You probably know why most good players quit this game/expansion: their classes (rogue, dk, mage, shadow priest) became disadvantaged in terms of competotion and such game is now longer fun. The meta promotes warriors, succubus, elemental shamans, ferals etc., i.e. big dmg numbers.

[ludovicostone]

One more example: disc rogue in 2s is the most pathetic comp atm, because of rogue's super low dmg output. Remove pve, make rogue completely useless (jk it already is only good for hugging pillars and wasting time), end of story.

That is so true. I'm a big fan of Priest and Rogue classes and Priest/Rogue comp in general and last season I did 1700 with a Disci (not easy compared to other setups) and the only arenas I've enjoyed where the skill-based/CCchain one. (Mirror best example)
Every Sham/Lock was automatically lost the exact moment the gate opened (no matter if resto, warlock was enough for 2v1, and why not, with ****ing succubus, just to **** even more on you).

-Pala/war u can kill only trash one, because every half brained pala rushes with sacrifice and the other genius shouts non stop 50 yard range while rushing priest, then 2x crits in a row and you are already dead (priest or rogue doesn't matter). If you survive you have to turtle game pillar for infinite minutes to get what? A loss. Gouges gets dodged/blocked 24/7, landind a double fear is almost impossible and sapping pala is definitely a joke, warrior saves always berserk rage or trinket and then intervene, or pala trinkets not even worth trying. You don't do pressure, priest ooms, warrior on a corner shouting and pala on the other corner consacration so no restealth and no drink..just a waste of time, or u land a kill at beginning with a nice opening or it's pretty much lost. Hpal/dk is cancer I don't even need to talk about it.
-Disci/feral can be done but feral burst too much rogue and peels like mad his priest.
-Moonkin and Elemental kiting you for eternity.
-Beastcleave rush with 100pets, bloodlust, tremor totem, bestial wrath, orc race obv cuz more pet damage then one-shotting Priest..
--And obviously the fantastic Mage/Priest comp that can keep u in CC for like 20-30minutes while the other partner dies.
These are the only setup we faced, we did 1k7, bought some gear and then stopped, it's just unbalanced.

This setup that I used to enjoy and was strong back then, now is pure trash imho. Maybe someone remember kamiky some season ago, ended with 1k8 rating 2v2 with turaxy. I don't know if disci, and I don't know if they just stopped at 1k8 but still had a "sad laugh" watching that rating...

Definitely some classes need buffs, and rng removal, its obvious you want to try a new setup but get stomped by the FOTM comp all over again, and then u reroll FOTM aswell.. Then you check ladder and there is ALWAYS the same comps playing, pala, dk, war, elemsham... They should premiate not the r1 overall, but the r1 of each comp. Could be a nice idea and will motivate for sure players to play different comps.

[Loberg]

That is so true. I'm a big fan of Priest and Rogue classes and Priest/Rogue comp in general and last season I did 1700 with a Disci (not easy compared to other setups) and the only arenas I've enjoyed where the skill-based/CCchain one. (Mirror best example)
Every Sham/Lock was automatically lost the exact moment the gate opened (no matter if resto, warlock was enough for 2v1, and why not, with ****ing succubus, just to **** even more on you).

-Pala/war u can kill only trash one, because every half brained pala rushes with sacrifice and the other genius shouts non stop 50 yard range while rushing priest, then 2x crits in a row and you are already dead (priest or rogue doesn't matter). If you survive you have to turtle game pillar for infinite minutes to get what? A loss. Gouges gets dodged/blocked 24/7, landind a double fear is almost impossible and sapping pala is definitely a joke, warrior saves always berserk rage or trinket and then intervene, or pala trinkets not even worth trying. You don't do pressure, priest ooms, warrior on a corner shouting and pala on the other corner consacration so no restealth and no drink..just a waste of time, or u land a kill at beginning with a nice opening or it's pretty much lost. Hpal/dk is cancer I don't even need to talk about it.
-Disci/feral can be done but feral burst too much rogue and peels like mad his priest.
-Moonkin and Elemental kiting you for eternity.
-Beastcleave rush with 100pets, bloodlust, tremor totem, bestial wrath, orc race obv cuz more pet damage then one-shotting Priest..
--And obviously the fantastic Mage/Priest comp that can keep u in CC for like 20-30minutes while the other partner dies.
These are the only setup we faced, we did 1k7, bought some gear and then stopped, it's just unbalanced.

This setup that I used to enjoy and was strong back then, now is pure trash imho. Maybe someone remember kamiky some season ago, ended with 1k8 rating 2v2 with turaxy. I don't know if disci, and I don't know if they just stopped at 1k8 but still had a "sad laugh" watching that rating...

Definitely some classes need buffs, and rng removal, its obvious you want to try a new setup but get stomped by the FOTM comp all over again, and then u reroll FOTM aswell.. Then you check ladder and there is ALWAYS the same comps playing, pala, dk, war, elemsham... They should premiate not the r1 overall, but the r1 of each comp. Could be a nice idea and will motivate for sure players to play different comps.

Your opinion is pretty much worth nothing, when all you can do is provide overexaggerated examples based on your own experience. What you want, is rogues to be compensated for overpowered comps like warr/pala, because you're fan of the rogue/disc setup. WHich is no way to solve anything. I should also mention, that hpala/warrior have issues against certain comps. I should also remind you, that back in the day when 3.3.5a was live (and before) rogue/disc was one of the most faceroll comps there was. Most rogue comps in general back then, was way over the top, also in 3s.
Another thing you should consider, is that rogues by design, require voice communication to execute setups well. That's not because rogues are bad, it's because timing is extremely important. For example if you have a dot and u need to sap out of a blind, you need to tell your priest, to shield you before you vanish. That's just one example. It doesn't mean they are bad. In fact, i've seen many rogues do very well in 2s and 3s. Their struggle is in SQ, where the communication is an issue again. - At least on higher rating. I've only seen 2 or 3 rogues above 2400 past couple seasons.
Also, rogue/disc being "trash" as you put it, doesn't mean that rogue comps are not viable.

[ludovicostone]

Your opinion is pretty much worth nothing, when all you can do is provide overexaggerated examples based on your own experience.

Your opinion instead worth even less since u compare current 3.3.5 servers/comps with s8 retail where every mongoloid could reach 2k2 with every comp blindfolded and with 1 hand only, so please

What you want, is rogues to be compensated for overpowered comps like warr/pala, because you're fan of the rogue/disc setup. WHich is no way to solve anything.

In fact I didn't ask for anything like this, dont put in my mouth words I did't say. I only opened a topic moths ago for asking the removal of RNG from gouges, kidney, kick. Never asked to buff rogue damage or lower warrior damage, absolutely not (and idfc honestly). I wrote a lot about the warrior/hpal example bcause it's the comp u face everytime by every kind of human player (assuming I can call "human" a person who plays hpal+war..)

I should also mention, that hpala/warrior have issues against certain comps.

Indeed, let's reroll all Fmage/xPriest everyone. Who the hell cares about counters? Every setup needs to have countersetups, otherwise everyone would pick the strongest one with no counters.

I should also remind you, that back in the day when 3.3.5a was live (and before) rogue/disc was one of the most faceroll comps there was. Most rogue comps in general back then, was way over the top, also in 3s.

You don't need to "remind" me s8 retail, I was there with both Priest and Rogue (and other classes) until the end, and comparing that to now after years of players grinding the same expansion over and over again it's just ridicolous. According to your sentence then 2s now should be dominated by resstodruid/dk, restodruid/war. But guess what? It isn't.

Another thing you should consider, is that rogues by design, require voice communication to execute setups well. That's not because rogues are bad, it's because timing is extremely important. For example if you have a dot and u need to sap out of a blind, you need to tell your priest, to shield you before you vanish. That's just one example.

Thanks for the 1k2 lesson, what's next? "Watch out dots ticking when no shield available to vanish>sap succesfully"? Or "Remember that Fear and Blind share the same dr"? I need more of these lessons please.

It doesn't mean they are bad. In fact, i've seen many rogues do very well in 2s and 3s.

They aren't, if they have a perfect communication and affinity with partner (not to mention a strong setup) they have potential. But they can't afford mistakes, they need to play flawless and most of all they don't need bad RNG. Since both me and my partners were doing mistakes sometimes (who doesn't?), and as Rogue my RNG was literally laughing at me all day long, I just stopped playing 2s with rogue. A dodged Gouged or Kidney can make you loose the arena. A dodged dismantle on blastestorm same. I don't have in mind other comps that if a bad rng happens the arena is lost 100%.
I saw too some rogues doing good in arenas but their W/L is not the best actually, and the effort they put to play and win is just insane compare to other comps.

Their struggle is in SQ, where the communication is an issue again. - At least on higher rating. I've only seen 2 or 3 rogues above 2400 past couple seasons.

SoloQ is the mongoloid pit, no matter the rating. I see only ppl tryharding with the most damage output class. Playing defensive sometimes, dispelling partners, reseting is something totally unknown. Rogues that are above 2k are like 2-3 usually. And most of them DuoQ.
One time I was near my hPaladin 2k3 (guild MVP, strong players watch out!!...) with only Faerie Fire on me, and out of combat. I stood still for a reastealth near him/pillar for like 10 seconds waiting for the dispel then he wrote in chat "ROGUE WHAT ARE U DOING?" > "im waiting u to dispel me FF". Then when 1s was left on FF he finally dispelled me. 2k3 hPaladin.
Playing Rogue in SoloQ is pure masochism.

Also, rogue/disc being "trash" as you put it, doesn't mean that rogue comps are not viable.

In fact xd. It does simply means rogue/disc is trash. What's so hard to understand?
I didn't say SHP/Rogue is trash or Moonkin-Ele-Fera/Rogue is trash.