"sorry we already hav hpally"

[Gokuzg]

I would like to address several issues brought here:

1. The enchant. I can't claim that I have perfect knowledge of in-game mechanics, so I'm not sure if Spellsurge is working as intended, however since haste paladin to get higher healing output, has to sacrifice some Intellect, mana managment becomes important, so it's rather clear that he will go for something that restores mana instead of 63 SP or 30 Int no matter if at the end of the fight it restores 5k or 20k and I guarantee that not everyone is aware it restores more than it should if what you say is true. However if it's indeed true and Devs confirm that using Spellsurge is considered exploiting due to some bug existing in the code, I guarantee you that those from TFK who have it, will get rid of it.

2. Putting aside all the answers author of this topic got - the whole discussion turned into Intellect Paladin vs Haste Paladin. Lay says that Haste is superior in healing output to Intellect Paladins, simply due to the fact that in the same time it will take Int Paladin to cast 5 Holy Lights, Haste will cast 6 HLs, so even if Int heals for 3k-4k more per cast, Haste will still be ahead by a lot, which is vital on fights where tank takes dmg equal to 60% of their hp. Moreover on fights like Halion, where flames are bugged and their spreading is so different from their retail equivalent faster casting is very important. Here is a proof of how flames should work and we all know how they work now:

1. Proof nr 1 (Paragon Kill) they still resemble the X shape even if slightly off
2. Proof nr 2 (TankSpot Guide Kill) their curling is nowhere near as extreme as it is on Warmane

So obviously people will get hit by the flames, once or twice if they are fast enough and that's where the other difference in healing by Haste and Int Paladins shows - you can get them to full hp, before the tick kills them most of the time, while the slower casting paladin will fail in some cases. And I'm not talking about picking them up with Holy Shock and Instant FoL, because that can be on cooldown if you used it on someone already moments ago and the other might not proc or simply 2 heals won't be enough if more people got hit.

3. The Innervates. While I agree that self-reliance is nice and all, keep in mind that it's a game you play with a group of people, so you all depend on each other and druids have Innervates for a reason. I've seen Intellect Paladins both good and bad call for Innervates during LK fight and even if it wasn't often, they did it, because it's available. Not only that but I've seen tanks drop dead simply, because Intellect Paladin had such slow cast time that LK manged to kill the tank in-between casts. And on the other hand there is Haste Paladin, who while has to manage his mana more efficiently, doesn't have problems with tanks dropping dead and counters the mana issue by asking for Innervate between CD+Plea uses.

So to conclude:
1. Int Paladin wins in terms of self-reliance.
2. Haste Paladin wins in terms of healing output.

We've had many Intellect Paladins join TFK, however we've been proved time and time again why most of our main holy paladins roll haste. Sure you can counter this, by saying that if Resto Shammy or Rdudu helps Hpala, by healing the tank the problem is solved, but why have a situation when one of your healers needs help in the first place?

[AntagonUE]

I would like to address several issues brought here:

1. The enchant. I can't claim that I have perfect knowledge of in-game mechanics, so I'm not sure if Spellsurge is working as intended, however since haste paladin to get higher healing output, has to sacrifice some Intellect, mana managment becomes important, so it's rather clear that he will go for something that restores mana instead of 63 SP or 30 Int no matter if at the end of the fight it restores 5k or 20k and I guarantee that not everyone is aware it restores more than it should if what you say is true. However if it's indeed true and Devs confirm that using Spellsurge is considered exploiting due to some bug existing in the code, I guarantee you that those from TFK who have it, will get rid of it.

Your guildies already said its not exploit, now we found out it is, i wonder what will mods do about this?
Yet another end-game guild caught exploiting in their bragging about `being top`, `legit`, skilled.
Anyways, not gonna start any drama, waiting for mod's reponse.

p.s.

If u say u didnt know its not working properly, u just look as bad as Orlando did.

[szike22]

1. The enchant. I can't claim that I have perfect knowledge of in-game mechanics, so I'm not sure if Spellsurge is working as intended, however since haste paladin to get higher healing output, has to sacrifice some Intellect, mana managment becomes important, so it's rather clear that he will go for something that restores mana instead of 63 SP or 30 Int no matter if at the end of the fight it restores 5k or 20k and I guarantee that not everyone is aware it restores more than it should if what you say is true. However if it's indeed true and Devs confirm that using Spellsurge is considered exploiting due to some bug existing in the code, I guarantee you that those from TFK who have it, will get rid of it.

Regardless of the fact, that I strongly don't believe what you are claiming, let's just assume it is true.

So you are telling us, the haste paladins, who heal already less as if they were intellect ones, are willing to sacrifise 63 spellpower for 100 mana per 50 second (assuming it procs right as the icd went off)? That is about 1 melee swing on the boss (with JoW on it).
So please don't lie around that the 23k mana per fight from a previous expansion enchant wasn't fishy to any of you.

I hope that the mods will sort this out as it should be.

[Gokuzg]

Your guildies already said its not exploit, now we found out it is, i wonder what will mods do about this?
Yet another end-game guild caught exploiting in their bragging about `being top`, `legit`, skilled.
Anyways, not gonna start any drama, waiting for mod's reponse.

p.s.

If u say u didnt know its not working properly, u just look as bad as Orlando did.

They did? The only thing on our topic that I've seen in regards to what you wrote there, is a guildie saying that if you have some information that could shed some light on the issue, it would be nice if you wrote a bugtracker report, however I have yet to see it - and believe me I checked whole bugtracker and there is no Spellsurge thread.

And lastly - I said that it's not for me to decide if this enchant is bugged or not simply because I have no extensive knowledge on the game mechanics and coding and therefore we will await Devs' response and act accordingly. Maybe in your pursuit to find something wrong with everything I say, you misunderstood, but I hope this clarifies it.

Now I hope that we are done getting offtopic, because it quickly turned from a thread about "Why 2 paladins is more than enough?" to let's attack TFK.

[AntagonUE]

Blame your guildies for posting logs with proof of exploiting. They want to be smart and bash people, but in the end, u see what happens.

[szike22]

Now I hope that we are done getting offtopic, because it quickly turned from a thread about "Why 2 paladins is more than enough?" to let's attack TFK.

Nono man... it is not TFK. It is the liars. Don't take it too personally.
Or does your whole guild have to do anything with all these spellsurge enchants? :>

[Gokuzg]

Regardless of the fact, that I strongly don't believe what you are claiming, let's just assume it is true.

So you are telling us, the haste paladins, who heal already less as if they were intellect ones, are willing to sacrifise 63 spellpower for 100 mana per 50 second (assuming it procs right as the icd went off)? That is about 1 melee swing on the boss (with JoW on it).
So please don't lie around that the 23k mana per fight from a previous expansion enchant wasn't fishy to any of you.

I hope that the mods will sort this out as it should be.

I'm sorry, healing less? It's like you didn't read anything past that point before you wrote that. Maybe per single cast, but since more haste allows them more casts in certain period of time than Intellect, they will heal more.

Spellsurge
Taken from the above (Openwow WotLK - used by Warmane)

'Use: Permanently enchant a melee weapon to make your spells sometimes restore 100 mana to nearby party members. Requires a level 35 or higher item." Even if like you are saying the internal cooldown is 50 seconds, given the fact that LK fight is around 10-12 minutes long, sometimes more, sometimes less then in theory if all the healers in the party have it, then during that fight all of them regain over 4k mana just from this enchant, which makes it worthy enough to consider if in your opinion 30 Int or 63 SP won't make a difference in your case. Now again, I would love to discuss tactics and playstyles in depth, but this is not the topic for it.

[AntagonUE]

I'm sorry, healing less? It's like you didn't read anything past that point before you wrote that. Maybe per single cast, but since more haste allows them more casts in certain period of time than Intellect, they will heal more.

Spellsurge
Taken from the above (Openwow WotLK - used by Warmane)

'Use: Permanently enchant a melee weapon to make your spells sometimes restore 100 mana to nearby party members. Requires a level 35 or higher item." Even if like you are saying the internal cooldown is 50 seconds, given the fact that LK fight is around 10-12 minutes long, sometimes more, sometimes less then in theory if all the healers in the party have it, then during that fight all of them regain over 4k mana just from this enchant, which makes it worthy enough to consider if in your opinion 30 Int or 63 SP won't make a difference in your case. Now again, I would love to discuss tactics and playstyles in depth, but this is not the topic for it.

Orlando is that u????
Lmao

[Fluffybully]

Orlando is that u????
Lmao

Orlando 2.0 horde version.

[Gokuzg]

Orlando is that u????
Lmao

What are you on about now?

@Edit

Oh, I get it. You think I'm confirming that I knew about the bug. Honestly, it's like I'm talking to children right now.

First of all to explain to szike22, I went and found the description for Spellsurge, because the party wide mana restoration was my whole point, which you missed by like a mile. Second of all, this description doesn't have anything besides "sometimes restore" so for the sake of my argument I assumed that it has the icd, he claimed it has which as he stated was 50 seconds. Then I made a short mathematical follow up based on this to prove my point.

I don't really know how you went from there to knowing about an apparent bug, but then again I can't claim to understand how your brain works.

[szike22]

I'm sorry, healing less? It's like you didn't read anything past that point before you wrote that. Maybe per single cast, but since more haste allows them more casts in certain period of time than Intellect, they will heal more.

Yes, yes per cast. What I meant that as it was said before, their strenght lies in the raw heals.
So let's just throw out 63 spellpower for 100 mana per 50 (hold on, I will link proof) seconds, cuz why not, right?

Now let's see the proof:
http://www.wowhead.com/item=22558/fo...surge#comments

More specific:


And I was even optimistic with the 50 second, as it has only a 10% proc chance mhmm...
So let's just throw out 63 spellpower for roughly around 21 mp5. (that's like 2x http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=40121 #worth)

[AntagonUE]

Its ok, they wanted 1000 mana for LK fight, dont roast em so much man. Same like Orlando used PQR for multiboxing.

l m a o.

[Gokuzg]

Yes, yes per cast. What I meant that as it was said before, their strenght lies in the raw heals.
So let's just throw out 63 spellpower for 100 mana per 50 (hold on, I will link proof) seconds, cuz why not, right?

Now let's see the proof:
http://www.wowhead.com/item=22558/fo...surge#comments

More specific:


And I was even optimistic with the 50 second, as it has only a 10% proc chance mhmm...
So let's just throw out 63 spellpower for roughly around 21 mp5. (that's like 2x http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=40121 #worth)

Again - party wide so 6 minutes 500 mana
12 minutes 1k mana per 1 person. Now multiply by 4 healers since that's the usual amount guilds who do Lk25hc have. 4k mana for everyone. But you didn't really need to write that since you just confirmed what I said before.

[szike22]

Again - party wide so 6 minutes 500 mana
12 minutes 1k mana per 1 person. Now multiply by 4 healers since that's the usual amount guilds who do Lk25hc have. 4k mana for everyone. But you didn't really need to write that since you just confirmed what I said before.

But since the weapon has no icd, it gives 23k mana per fight right now.
Well I have nothing else to say as you just proved that you DO know how the enchant should work. :^]

[Artharias]

I'm sorry, healing less? It's like you didn't read anything past that point before you wrote that. Maybe per single cast, but since more haste allows them more casts in certain period of time than Intellect, they will heal more.

Spellsurge
Taken from the above (Openwow WotLK - used by Warmane)

'Use: Permanently enchant a melee weapon to make your spells sometimes restore 100 mana to nearby party members. Requires a level 35 or higher item." Even if like you are saying the internal cooldown is 50 seconds, given the fact that LK fight is around 10-12 minutes long, sometimes more, sometimes less then in theory if all the healers in the party have it, then during that fight all of them regain over 4k mana just from this enchant, which makes it worthy enough to consider if in your opinion 30 Int or 63 SP won't make a difference in your case. Now again, I would love to discuss tactics and playstyles in depth, but this is not the topic for it.

Hi , sry for this comment not refering the threat post, but wanted to clear you one thing:
As you "calculated" that you get 4k mana over enchant a fight.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=5558&e=6534
I can see your healers got 23k mana on lk fight, thats litlle bit more than your correct 4k.
Bye.
Ps. Sad that you guys "didnt" know that, luckily on your every Lod / Rs , there is always atleast 1 with spellsurge. Bye srsly now.