Challenge modes need to be closed and all so far gotten rewards removed!

[-Notorious-]

No you're missing the point, over time with an expansion that never progresses eventually everyone will have CM gear. The only way to keep them valuable is to place a timer for them. AKA Warmane ends CM gear with a 3 Month Grace Period then CM gear becomes valuable.

Clothahump understands this, you obviously do not.

That's a terrible argument.

It's akin to saying, we should give everyone full mythic Tier 16 gear, because eventually everyone will get that gear.

This is stupid, let alone simply untrue. Over time not everyone will get CM gear. The reasons being:
a) It is challenging. That's the whole point.
b) Not everyone will do them to get the gear, precisely because they are challenging. Many will give up.
c) CM Gear should be obtainable for everyone regardless of when they join the server. That is the model Warmane has typically followed, and should continue to do so.

Because of the above reasons, the proper action to take is to remove all rewards, close CM dungeons, and relaunch only when they are working properly.

You can relax though, since I personally doubt Warmane intends to do this, so it hardly matters anyways. I would be glad if Warmane went through with it however.

[Screamreaper]

I wish you guys would complain more about actual important stuff needing a fix than rather... challenge modes. ( I do understand why you want cm's to be fixed tho )

But.

One example: Raids. ( Boss mechanics; crashing boss skills; crashing hallways; bugs that prevent guilds going past a certain boss to continue progression... etc, you know.. stuff that actually makes people leave the server due to not being able to enjoy them the way it should be in a larger scale.)
Another: Legendary Cloak's quest line.
Another: Hackers.

Stuff that actually matters.

Challenge modes are simply done for the transmog sets and a mount. The challenge it has is.. not even that "challenging". To get gold its not that hard. It will take some getting used to the dungeon but doable with any class comp. What is hard is getting a good time.

Guilds here on this server actually do make an extreme effort to complete the raids in ways that... are not even close to retail due to the new numerous bugs happening EVERY week with each update. But instead, we get a 5 pages long about cm's being bugged and "demanding" the items that we got from them removed simply due to the fact it's not working as intended.. really? lol. I guess the raiding community has more tolerance.

[arcticdeath]

Get em screamy

[ivicask2]

Challenging lol, im able to solo Scarlet monastery with my Monk in tank spec with silver medal, yea you read right, SOLO challenge mode(Max ilvl DPS gear), this is not normal in any way..

[romz]

That's a terrible argument.

It's akin to saying, we should give everyone full mythic Tier 16 gear, because eventually everyone will get that gear.

This is stupid, let alone simply untrue. Over time not everyone will get CM gear. The reasons being:
a) It is challenging. That's the whole point.
b) Not everyone will do them to get the gear, precisely because they are challenging. Many will give up.
c) CM Gear should be obtainable for everyone regardless of when they join the server. That is the model Warmane has typically followed, and should continue to do so.

Because of the above reasons, the proper action to take is to remove all rewards, close CM dungeons, and relaunch only when they are working properly.

You can relax though, since I personally doubt Warmane intends to do this, so it hardly matters anyways. I would be glad if Warmane went through with it however.

Your original point was terrible the part I quoted the first time. You want it to be valuable you have to make available for a limited time. Otherwise anyone and everyone can obtain it and the CM gear would still be in the same situation as it is now.

"It's akin to saying, we should give everyone full mythic Tier 16 gear, because eventually everyone will get that gear."

Not even close. I never stated that everyone should get free CM gear (even though it is technically free cause we don't pay for WoW on a private server but that is beside the point.)

The thing to CM on retail was that it was available for a LIMITED TIME. And if you couldn't pass you got to pay (from what I heard) 100k and get a carry. Which people can do now anyways even if CM worked as intended still making the whole

"Gonna agree with OP. Defeats the purpose of these rewards being rare if dungeons are a joke and everyone is walking around with their CM transmog.

I don't understand how challenge modes were launched without down-scaling gear...

The best solution is to close them and reset all rewards/achievements, and relaunch when everything works fine. Anyone who opposes this should ask themselves if the reward is worth it if everyone has it..."

a pointless argument.

[WolfCD]

I wish you guys would complain more about actual important stuff needing a fix than rather... challenge modes. ( I do understand why you want cm's to be fixed tho )

But.

One example: Raids. ( Boss mechanics; crashing boss skills; crashing hallways; bugs that prevent guilds going past a certain boss to continue progression... etc, you know.. stuff that actually makes people leave the server due to not being able to enjoy them the way it should be in a larger scale.)
Another: Legendary Cloak's quest line.
Another: Hackers.

Stuff that actually matters.

Challenge modes are simply done for the transmog sets and a mount. The challenge it has is.. not even that "challenging". To get gold its not that hard. It will take some getting used to the dungeon but doable with any class comp. What is hard is getting a good time.

Guilds here on this server actually do make an extreme effort to complete the raids in ways that... are not even close to retail due to the new numerous bugs happening EVERY week with each update. But instead, we get a 5 pages long about cm's being bugged and "demanding" the items that we got from them removed simply due to the fact it's not working as intended.. really? lol. I guess the raiding community has more tolerance.

The raiding community would complain and want all so far gotten stuff removed if due to some bug anyone could full clear SOO within 1 hour with a pug, wouldnt they? Which is basicely what CMs are right now. Id be fine with them closing the CMs and then fixing raids first (i wouldnt like it, as i dont raid, but id understand it) and afterwards fixing the CMs (even if that took a year or two), as long as they close them and remove the rewards so the content isnt worthless by the time they get around to fixing it.

What i am asking for is not for them to instantly fix the CMs (as you can see by the title), but to close them for now and only reopen them if they work properly (and remove the rewards).

[bekaq]

The raiding community would complain and want all so far gotten stuff removed if due to some bug anyone could full clear SOO within 1 hour with a pug, wouldnt they? Which is basicely what CMs are right now. Id be fine with them closing the CMs and then fixing raids first (i wouldnt like it, as i dont raid, but id understand it) and afterwards fixing the CMs (even if that took a year or two), as long as they close them and remove the rewards so the content isnt worthless by the time they get around to fixing it.

What i am asking for is not for them to instantly fix the CMs (as you can see by the title), but to close them for now and only reopen them if they work properly (and remove the rewards).

The content isn't worthless, the point on CM was to do better time and earn the monthly tittle, almost every1 even on retail has the CM xmogs (specialy warrs).So the correct thing to do is to reset timers along with lowering the ilvl when you enter and that would be the end of the story.

[-Notorious-]

Your original point was terrible the part I quoted the first time. You want it to be valuable you have to make available for a limited time. Otherwise anyone and everyone can obtain it and the CM gear would still be in the same situation as it is now.

"It's akin to saying, we should give everyone full mythic Tier 16 gear, because eventually everyone will get that gear."

Not even close. I never stated that everyone should get free CM gear (even though it is technically free cause we don't pay for WoW on a private server but that is beside the point.)

The thing to CM on retail was that it was available for a LIMITED TIME. And if you couldn't pass you got to pay (from what I heard) 100k and get a carry. Which people can do now anyways even if CM worked as intended still making the whole

"Gonna agree with OP. Defeats the purpose of these rewards being rare if dungeons are a joke and everyone is walking around with their CM transmog.

I don't understand how challenge modes were launched without down-scaling gear...

The best solution is to close them and reset all rewards/achievements, and relaunch when everything works fine. Anyone who opposes this should ask themselves if the reward is worth it if everyone has it..."

a pointless argument.

It is valuable as is. My whole point is that CM are too hard and not everyone will get it. I understand you disagree with that, but that's just a difference of opinion.

So let's do some logical thinking here.

If CM gear isn't valuable, and everyone can get them again, we should have no issues removing everything, because, like you said, everyone can get them again. Right? You should be okay with the removal of rewards, since, in your opinion, it is easy to regain all the items eventually.

Alternatively, if CM gear IS valuable, because of the difficulty of the content, it makes sense to remove them because people have gotten gear they don't truly deserve.

Not even close. I never stated that everyone should get free CM gear (even though it is technically free cause we don't pay for WoW on a private server but that is beside the point.)

Well right now everyone is getting free CM gear whether you like it or not. I am suggesting a way to make amends for mistakes, whereas you are arguing that free gear isn't an issue and should be ignored.

[MudFlap91]

This person deserves a cookie. Well said sir/ma'am, well said

[icepurger]

Another thing nobody is taking into consideration is the population of the server. I'm not going to talk about the rewards being removed or not,I'm going to talk about what would be a likely scenario in case it does get fixed and rewards reseted and everything else Notorious and Wolf want.

Gear being scaled down, pvp players would have no chance of obtaining the tmog. Why? because to be useful in the challenge modes you would need some decent pve gear, to get that decent pve gear you would need a pve guild. To get into a pve guild you'd again need some basic pve gear and lots of knowledge of pve raids like SOO.
That might not be such a huge problem for retail realms where there are thousands of people playing at all times and everything is being done all the time, but here on MOP by the time you get pve gear,get the guild,learn the tactics,get more gear,and find a group that wants to do all the challenges with you, MOP might even die out.
This is excluding the time it might actually take to fix the problem at hand. So think about that, you want to exclude an entire population that might not even want to do pve from obtaining the prize, or you want to force them to work insanely hard for it which in itself is not wrong, just quite unfair when the population is taken into consideration.

To put it in a different perspective, lets say those rated bg mounts worked, those you get at 100 rated bg wins. Now that would not be possible, not even for pvp players, let alone for pve cause there simply are no rateds, not enough. This is not retail, you cannot put retail-like prizes in a non-retail-like population. There are simply too few options of obtaining the prize on a retail-like difficulty.

[romz]

It is valuable as is. My whole point is that CM are too hard and not everyone will get it. I understand you disagree with that, but that's just a difference of opinion.

So let's do some logical thinking here.

If CM gear isn't valuable, and everyone can get them again, we should have no issues removing everything, because, like you said, everyone can get them again. Right? You should be okay with the removal of rewards, since, in your opinion, it is easy to regain all the items eventually.

Alternatively, if CM gear IS valuable, because of the difficulty of the content, it makes sense to remove them because people have gotten gear they don't truly deserve.




Well right now everyone is getting free CM gear whether you like it or not. I am suggesting a way to make amends for mistakes, whereas you are arguing that free gear isn't an issue and should be ignored.

By your standards it isn't valuable since your whole argument was "everyone can have it". Then the crap you been spouting out is showing you to be a hypocrite.

[-Notorious-]

Another thing nobody is taking into consideration is the population of the server. I'm not going to talk about the rewards being removed or not,I'm going to talk about what would be a likely scenario in case it does get fixed and rewards reseted and everything else Notorious and Wolf want.

Gear being scaled down, pvp players would have no chance of obtaining the tmog. Why? because to be useful in the challenge modes you would need some decent pve gear, to get that decent pve gear you would need a pve guild. To get into a pve guild you'd again need some basic pve gear and lots of knowledge of pve raids like SOO.
That might not be such a huge problem for retail realms where there are thousands of people playing at all times and everything is being done all the time, but here on MOP by the time you get pve gear,get the guild,learn the tactics,get more gear,and find a group that wants to do all the challenges with you, MOP might even die out.
This is excluding the time it might actually take to fix the problem at hand. So think about that, you want to exclude an entire population that might not even want to do pve from obtaining the prize, or you want to force them to work insanely hard for it which in itself is not wrong, just quite unfair when the population is taken into consideration.

To put it in a different perspective, lets say those rated bg mounts worked, those you get at 100 rated bg wins. Now that would not be possible, not even for pvp players, let alone for pve cause there simply are no rateds, not enough. This is not retail, you cannot put retail-like prizes in a non-retail-like population. There are simply too few options of obtaining the prize on a retail-like difficulty.

There's far too much wrong here.

I'll start from the top.

The point of gear scaling is so you don't overgear the dungeon. Using SoO gear, in fact, is worse for challenge modes than using ToT gear (and PvP gear is also close, however Grevious is better than Prideful). This was the case on retail, albeit it's possible it was due to bugs there. Nonetheless, SoO gear or Prideful or Grevious gear makes literally no difference in challenge modes. Tier sets are not supposed to work in the dungeons, and while trinkets do, their proc rate is meant to be scaled down as well. You can see the gearing rules here or here.

Moving on, if the Rated BG achievements worked, I would already have the 40 win rated bg achievement and mount. I have 62 wins, and trust me, I am not the highest here. I'm sure you will find many players with 100 Rated BG wins. If you want to do rated BGs and work hard on making teams, I'm sure many guilds will play you, Hysteria being the most hungry for Rated BGs currently.

By your standards it isn't valuable since your whole argument was "everyone can have it". Then the crap you been spouting out is showing you to be a hypocrite.

Maybe you don't understand English that well, so perhaps I am to blame for not being clear. I'll try to break it down a bit easier.

1. Currently Challenge Mode is bugged and is a joke. As stated above people can solo a dungeon and get silver.
2. Because of 1, I am saying currently Challenge Mode rewards are a joke and not valuable, because every noob has them, such as yourself.
3. If 1 did not happen, aka Challenge Modes worked properly, the rewards would be valuable because not everyone will get them
4. This is why I suggested removing all rewards and re-opening CM when they work

To recap, MY argument is not everyone can have it if it works. YOUR argument is that everyone can have it.

Based on YOUR argument, if everyone can get it again, then we have no problems with deleting the rewards and making people earn it properly.

[WolfCD]

Its not really worse, but its not much better either. There are some bis pieces from SOO for challenge modes for some classes but they second best ones usually are easy to get too and you dont need to be BiS. To clearify challenge mode BiS doesnt mean havening super high end pve gear, but that certain items are better then others if scaled down.

Which means to get BiS you need to run a ton of different content, a lot of the best gear avaible to CMs is crafted gear or stuff that drops in dungeons, stuff from dailies, different raids and so on. But its worth noting that any good group can get gold without having specilized gear, the BiS lists are more for getting very high timers.

For example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmpDw8djHnE remember that this is in 463 gear (i.e 350k health or so)

[romz]

There's far too much wrong here.

I'll start from the top.

The point of gear scaling is so you don't overgear the dungeon. Using SoO gear, in fact, is worse for challenge modes than using ToT gear (and PvP gear is also close, however Grevious is better than Prideful). This was the case on retail, albeit it's possible it was due to bugs there. Nonetheless, SoO gear or Prideful or Grevious gear makes literally no difference in challenge modes. Tier sets are not supposed to work in the dungeons, and while trinkets do, their proc rate is meant to be scaled down as well. You can see the gearing rules here or here.

Moving on, if the Rated BG achievements worked, I would already have the 40 win rated bg achievement and mount. I have 62 wins, and trust me, I am not the highest here. I'm sure you will find many players with 100 Rated BG wins. If you want to do rated BGs and work hard on making teams, I'm sure many guilds will play you, Hysteria being the most hungry for Rated BGs currently.



Maybe you don't understand English that well, so perhaps I am to blame for not being clear. I'll try to break it down a bit easier.

1. Currently Challenge Mode is bugged and is a joke. As stated above people can solo a dungeon and get silver.
2. Because of 1, I am saying currently Challenge Mode rewards are a joke and not valuable, because every noob has them, such as yourself.
3. If 1 did not happen, aka Challenge Modes worked properly, the rewards would be valuable because not everyone will get them
4. This is why I suggested removing all rewards and re-opening CM when they work

To recap, MY argument is not everyone can have it if it works. YOUR argument is that everyone can have it.

Based on YOUR argument, if everyone can get it again, then we have no problems with deleting the rewards and making people earn it properly.

I know it is bugged, I read the OP's post. That has nothing to do with my posts. I just have 1 character on MoP that I play (if I ever log on since my last log in is probably sometime last month and that character has most of contender's set that's it. Never did dungeons/pvp. Had 0 reason to log in.) So don't include me having CM gear as I don't care who has what or who doesn't have what like you seem to.

My point is you made your whole argument around it being "valuable" when you're on a private server (MOP) that will not move into WoD (Inb4 Warmane changes MoP to WoD just to spite me) where everyone and anyone regardless can still obtain the CM gear even if it wasn't bugged. If you want it to be valuable you'll have to make it only available for a limited time. Because you don't understand this point you have constantly shown me you have reading comprehension problems.

[kairxa]

If we apply -Notorious-'s suggestion on all situation in frostwolf, we should delete all character because on we are leveling using buggy class (bear in mind that every class has it bug). Because it is not valuable and working properly. Agree?