Pandaria Help for sub/combat rogue [PVP]

[BobeSin]

Hi guys, my main is a sub/combat (main sub) rogue and I really need help with playing it correctly. I basically use for normal attacks just Hemorrhage and expose armor, then for finishers I use Kidney Shot, Eviscerate and Rupture, I also frequently use Marked For Death. For poisons I use Deadly Poison and Mind-Numbing Poison. People tell me to use Slice and Dice, but it does so little damage I avoid it. Basically it does a little bit over 10k max dmg, and that's a waste of points in my opinion. I only get by in BGs because I spam stealth and fight in crowds, never alone cuz I'm afraid. I want to do arena to get Prideful, but there's no way because I'm too bad. What should I do? I really like rogues, but I'm kinda noob for this game and I love WoW. Any "less" complicated guides on what and how should I use?


P.S: People told me to roll combat because it's very easy, but I never really bothered to learn to play it, I'm sticking to sub for some reason...I got used to it.

[BobeSin]

nobody wants to help me?

[Jwicz]

I'm no pro rogue, but as sub, you should not try to fight out in the open like a warrior or monk. Use your openers most of the time and make your shadow dance/vanishes matter. If those get countered, you get screwed and die. Also take paralytic poison instead of mind-numbing. Slice and dice isn't really for the attack speed but more for the energy regen it gives from the sub passive.

Eviscerates during openers and shadow dance are where most of your damage comes from.

Edit: Look up Sativ or Sensus on youtube for 5.4 or 5.4.8

[Marco08]

I'm no pro rogue, but as sub, you should not try to fight out in the open like a warrior or monk. Use your openers most of the time and make your shadow dance/vanishes matter. If those get countered, you get screwed and die. Also take paralytic poison instead of mind-numbing. Slice and dice isn't really for the attack speed but more for the energy regen it gives from the sub passive.

Eviscerates during openers and shadow dance are where most of your damage comes from.

Edit: Look up Sativ or Sensus on youtube for 5.4 or 5.4.8

THIS! Also you can use hemorraging veins glyph, so you aren't forced to rupture your target for improve your damage AND expose armor is useless, you already ignore armor with yours stealth openers.

Combat is easier because you don't need to stay always on back of your target when bursting and it doesn't really need reastealth for doing damage.

Edit:
tip: as sub always use your premedition for SnD before opening

[Clothahump]

Many things were already said in this thread, but I figured I'd add:

- Sub usually plays Wound Poison + Mind Numbing Poison. With your set bonus, you get the effect of Crippling Poison for free when using Wound Poison (I believe). Also not using Paralytic Poison allows you to spec into Prey on the Weak for harder openers. And sub is all about hard openers.
- Never spam Hemorrhage unless your target is really low (<30k) and you really need to finish it quickly. Sub is the worst of the 3 specs in longer fights as it loses a significant amount of its damage after a few seconds. Therefore, avoid face-to-face combat. You're usually trying to get behind your target and spam Backstab, or Ambush while Shadow Dance is active. I personally don't ever Ambush outside of Shadow Dance.
- Learn about your passives. Master of Subtlety, which increases your damage for a few seconds when coming out of stealth. Sanguinary veins, which makes you deal more damage against bleeding targets (Rupture, Garrote and Hemorrhage if glyphed).
- As Marco08 said, expose armor is pretty useless. I never use it.
- Slice and Dice is SUPER IMPORTANT. Always get it running before even engaging in a fight; you can use Premeditation in stealth to get 2 combo points, and then spend them on Slice and Dice right away. Slice and Dice greatly increases the speed of your auto attacks, which is also critical when bursting with Shadow Blades, as that makes your auto attacks hit way harder and deal pure shadow damage. Sometimes I crit >40k with auto attacks in my burst, so you see why SnD is key here. Also without SnD active you run out of energy pretty quickly as it regenerates 8 energy for you every 2 seconds or so.

As for attacking lone souls in the open - sub is actually the best of the 3 rogue specs for that. You have the most control of all 3 rogue specs thanks to Shadow Dance (where you can chain Cheap Shot), a metric gankton of damage right on your opener (so your victims can't really prepare themselves as opposed to Combat, where you can always kinda tell when that Killing Spree is about to get popped), and if the gank fails, you can usually just vanish and gtfo. No need to be scared really.

Edit: Oh yea and I do believe that the other two specs are slightly easier to play than sub, and they scale better with low gear. Besides that rogue isn't exactly the easiest class to play regardless of spec, so if you're struggling to keep track of the few things I listed, you *may* want to consider switching to something easier first to get a proper hang of the game before giving rogue another try :)

[WolfCD]

Is combat mastery still totally bugged and thus the spec way to strong?

[krzyt]

I think assa is easier than the two others.
and more energy helps in pvp, you don't need to worry about wasting energy on burst of speed and feint (if you use those talents).
And the damage rotation is very simple :
mutilate/dispatch as combo builder (dispatch when available, else mutilate)
Rupture on target for energy and damage.
If the target has rupture on, use Envenom as a finisher.
Press slice and dice once in your rotation, then don't worry because your envenom will refresh it.

Of course in pvp you will use other abilities, like stuns, disarms (just like other specs).
Combat seems harder to me than ***, because you need to keep track of slice and dice and that snake debuff on your target.

and Assa damage is pretty good, I've had over 100 k dispatches.